17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[Desdemona]

This is how I read this as well. The problem for GZ is when the SA impeaches his statement with the various versions he evidently gave.

I have a funny feeling that what other people may or may not have alleged they were told by GZ (their versions, at that, and told to the media, at that), will not hold very much weight.

Not as much weight as GZ's sworn statements to LE, just after he had caused the death of TM. IMO those three(?) sworn statements will most likely be pretty consistent. Time will tell. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

So sorry for exhibiting my skepticism :what:, BUT....I wonder IF those papers waved about really ARE medical records of pristine quality, ie. unadulterated, stamped for authenticity. Additionally, I wonder IF they were copies of the EMS run sheet....again, questioning the quality and completeness. ANYHOW, I'd "suggest" that records that are retrieved via a subpoena might be more "wholesome"!lease:lease:
:moo::moo::moo: Oh yeah, tiny detail about Ac's investigators "chatting" with GZ; IIRC, he was receiving legal "advice" from his team of lawyers or as he phrased it, "legal advisors" per the audio from their unique press conference.

so totally just my opinion! :moo::moo::moo::moo:

I want to see the date on the medical visit too. What happens if he didn't get medical care until a week later? Two weeks later? Three weeks later? Would that even be allowed in evidence since so many things could have happened from the time of the incident until him actually getting medical care?

I'm not saying he did wait this long, I'm just saying what if?

 

[CathyinTexas]

Exactly. Great post. The TH's have leaped on this to prove that the SA has no case. It was BOND hearing. The SA doesn't have to lay out their case at all at least until the preliminary hearing, if there is one (I think it would come after the SYG determination?). Yesterday was to determine bond only, not for either side to prove their case. That is not necessary to determine bond. The TH's are making wild conclusions with this one officer's testimony. We don't know what or how much evidence the SA has yet. How ridiculous for the TH's to sensationalize it as if it could stop the trial from ever happening. Good Lord.

I would think that the SA will be prepared for the SYG hearing, and hopefully convince the judge to go to trial.

 

[Nova]

I hope you are right, but I have heard that many a defense strategy is to trash the victim. If they bring up Trayvon's SCHOOL record does the prosecution then have the go ahead to bring up GZ's CRIMINAL record?

No. There are rules governing testimony re past behavior of both defendant and victim (especially defendant), but they don't specify "tit for tat". A lawyer would have to tell us whether Trayvon's school records are admissible. I tend to doubt it, since there are no violent offenses and no criminal record, but I admit I don't know the rules.

ETA I can well imagine the defense trying to get TM's school suspension mentioned ("it explains why he was in Sanford") WITHOUT going into details of the reasons for it. Let the jury imagine it was something worse.

 

[m00c0w]

I want to see the date on the medical visit too. What happens if he didn't get medical care until a week later? Two weeks later? Three weeks later? Would that even be allowed in evidence since so many things could have happened from the time of the incident until him actually getting medical care?

I'm not saying he did wait this long, I'm just saying what if?

The prosecution would have the ability to contest any evidence presented by the defense, just as the defense would for the prosecution. It would be up to the judge and rules of evidence as to whether it is allowed or not.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

Originally Posted by Ambrosia
I don't know if this has been noticed and posted by someone else / but I would add from listening to the tape from my earlier posting at 167 that: As I was listening to some background sounds on the Zimmerman tape him fidgeting with his pistol? Because right after the operator says 'Alright, George / what is your last name?' - (then what sounds like slide of pistol cocking) @ 7:12:14:25. He then replies and says 'Zimmerman'. the very next thing (he swears a lot doesn't he?) he says is '$hi* no..' Then I hear what sounds like him hitting the bottom of the magazine three times with the palm of his hand... (this same sound is also repeated) Not sure any of this matters....it probably was just his loose magazine. This is time-stamped at @ 7:12:14:25 from the 911 tape I linked at 167. (George Zimmerman Police Call w. Time Stamps and Notes - YouTube)

Bingo! That clicking definitely sounds like GZ loading up his gun -- as surely as that's the sound of GZ running.

This is further evidence to why GZ changed his mind about where LE should meet him, preferring instead to just receive a phone call. He had no intention of going back to his car or the mailbox. He himself indicated to 911 that he wasn't going back to his car, as Gilbreath testified yesterday.

Instead, GZ was busy clicking that chamber, gearing up to use the gun. He is either as inept as Barney Fife, or as big a liar as Casey Anthony with her Zanny the Nanny crap.

Making sure that people know he had to move his head to the grass and all is calling attention to something he's covering up about that "head injury." GZ probably went and intentionally cracked his head against the curb after TM was dead. That may be why there's such a smooth horizontal line where the blood begins. That's the 'moving his head' he's likely trying to explain before he's asked.

This alleged fight and injury smell more staged with each passing moment.

 

[SuziQ]

Smoke and mirrors uvamerica. Just as I said earlier, O'Mara could have been waving around anything but medical records for all we know.


~jmo~

It's entirely possible that we will never hear about them again. For all we know MOM is taking liberty by calling the EMT reports medical records. Remember all the outrageous claims the defense for CA made in the media and in the courtroom? The SA and the judge finally told them to put up or shut up. People claiming that an attorney would not behave this way in front of a judge and an attorney will lose their credibility are wrong. FYI: Todd Macaluso is the attorney who put the exclamation point on outrageous claims in the courtroom with no proof. The entire team was guilty of it though.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have a funny feeling that what other people may or may not have alleged they were told by GZ (their versions, at that, and told to the media, at that), will not hold very much weight.

Not as much weight as GZ's sworn statements to LE, just after he had caused the death of TM. IMO those three(?) sworn statements will most likely be pretty consistent. Time will tell. JMO

But will it match up against the evidence? That's another important thing. His story is going to really have to hold up to what was found at that scene. It also really depends on Trayvon's autopsy report too. We have no idea if the only injury Trayvon had was a gunshot wound? We don't even know if George had any defensive wounds? I would think if someone was hitting you in the face, you would try and cover your face? When Trayvon was "covering his mouth" with his hands -- did he bite him? Spit on him? Was his saliva found on Trayvon's hands? Get what I'm saying? How was he able to "scream" so loud for help with Trayvon's hand over his mouth?

There is so much more to this than just George's word. The State has come to the conclusion that George's word does not match up to the evidence and, IMO, that is why he is facing 2nd degree murder.

MOO

 

[SuziQ]

What would that accomplish? If he doesn't hand over the records, the state knows he was bluffing. The judge will know if they're not entered after blatantly stating they exist and would be presented. There's not even a jury at this phase. I see no reason why it would be "smoke and mirrors". I can definitely see that he was making a point to the prosecution, though. That point would be pretty invalid if he never presented the medical records.

There was a large jury pool watching this. That's who MOM was playing to, and that's who the apology was for. MOO!!!

 

[CathyinTexas]

Your giddy with excitement about a murder trial of someone you don't know?

I am looking forward to true justice is in this case. We usually don't know the defendants on trial for murder.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Also, on the picture, taken seconds after the shooting, there is no grass or dirt on his head? If he "moved" his head to the grass -- with it being wet, his head should have been dirty -- but it isn't? It looks like it had just happened -- like when he was getting up -- so I'm wondering if the kickback from the gun didn't make him bang his own head against the cement?

I don't know? The picture just seems strange. I don't think it's fake, but it doesn't match up to him moving his head to the wet grass?

MOO

 

[SuziQ]

I have a funny feeling that what other people may or may not have alleged they were told by GZ (their versions, at that, and told to the media, at that), will not hold very much weight.

Not as much weight as GZ's sworn statements to LE, just after he had caused the death of TM. IMO those three(?) sworn statements will most likely be pretty consistent. Time will tell. JMO

ITA. However, the SA claims they are NOT consistent statements. And then you have GZ's call to SPD Dispatch. I can't wait to actually see the sworn statements.

 

[Nova]

BBM

That's where my mindset is different. This isn't a game to me, I'm not rooting for one side or the other. I'm rooting for justice. If justice determines one's innocence or guilt, so be it. There are plenty of innocent people in jail today who have no business being there. It's not always about who's the defendant and who's the victim, it's about what the truth is.

The truth in this case is that an armed adult pursued and shot an unarmed teenager who had been minding his own business.

Whether that makes GZ guilty depends on what evidence the SA can muster and the crazy laws of Florida. But justice in this case is already clear, imo.

 

[Adrienne37]

It's entirely possible that we will never hear about them again. For all we know MOM is taking liberty by calling the EMT reports medical records. Remember all the outrageous claims the defense for CA made in the media and in the courtroom? The SA and the judge finally told them to put up or shut up. People claiming that an attorney would not behave this way in front of a judge and an attorney will lose their credibility are wrong. FYI: Todd Macaluso is the attorney who put the exclamation point on outrageous claims in the courtroom with no proof. The entire team was guilty of it though.

I thought the same exact thing SuziQ. Sadly after the Anthony spectacle, the words defense attorney leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.


~jmo~

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Bingo! That clicking definitely sounds like GZ loading up his gun -- as surely as that's the sound of GZ running.

This is further evidence to why GZ changed his mind about where LE should meet him, preferring instead to just receive a phone call. He had no intention of going back to his car or the mailbox. He himself indicated to 911 that he wasn't going back to his car, as Gilbreath testified yesterday.

Instead, GZ was busy clicking that chamber, gearing up to use the gun. He is either as inept as Barney Fife, or as big a liar as Casey Anthony with her Zanny the Nanny crap.

Making sure that people know he had to move his head to the grass and all is calling attention to something he's covering up about that "head injury." GZ probably went and intentionally cracked his head against the curb after TM was dead. That may be why there's such a smooth horizontal line where the blood begins. That's the 'moving his head' he's likely trying to explain before he's asked.

This alleged fight and injury smell more staged with each passing moment.

Actually, I don't think the location or cause of his injury has anything to do with that line. I would bet more money than I could ever afford that that picture was edited. Flash glare doesn't create a straight line on a round head, I don't care how bright it is. That white section on his head appears to have been completely edited out.

 

[Adrienne37]

So sorry for exhibiting my skepticism :what:, BUT....I wonder IF those papers waved about really ARE medical records of pristine quality, ie. unadulterated, stamped for authenticity. Additionally, I wonder IF they were copies of the EMS run sheet....again, questioning the quality and completeness. ANYHOW, I'd "suggest" that records that are retrieved via a subpoena might be more "wholesome"!lease:lease:
:moo::moo::moo: Oh yeah, tiny detail about Ac's investigators "chatting" with GZ; IIRC, he was receiving legal "advice" from his team of lawyers or as he phrased it, "legal advisors" per the audio from their unique press conference.

so totally just my opinion! :moo::moo::moo::moo:

I think you are 100% right to express your skepticism about the medical reports. I will always maintain that if Zimmerman's injuries were as severe as was claimed by him, SPD would not have assumed liability for him that night without taking him to the hospital for proper clearance prior to taking him to the station.


~jmo~

 

[Phoenixfla]

The truth in this case is that an armed adult pursued and shot an unarmed teenager who had been minding his own business.

Whether that makes GZ guilty depends on what evidence the SA can muster and the crazy laws of Florida. But justice in this case is already clear, imo.

Justice may be clear to YOU but its far from clear to me.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

BBM

That's where my mindset is different. This isn't a game to me, I'm not rooting for one side or the other. I'm rooting for justice. If justice determines one's innocence or guilt, so be it. There are plenty of innocent people in jail today who have no business being there. It's not always about who's the defendant and who's the victim, it's about what the truth is.

I suppose justice all depends on whose version you believe, the defense's or the prosecution's. More often than not, people only believe justice has been served if they agree with the results of the trial or investigation. If not, it becomes some sort of travesty in their mind. We have "innocent" people in jail, and we have "guilty" people who walked. The justice of either result is in the eye of the beholder, IMO.

Note: Edited to add quotation marks around innocent and guilty, since I suppose those are also relative terms. Some people insist that Zimmerman was "innocent" even though he killed a teen. Some insist Martin was "guilty" because he probably smoked weed with his friends. *shrug*

 

[Donjeta]

JMO it's possible and imo probable that the medical reports were given to the state off camera. They can't use them in the courtroom if they don't let the state review them too.

 

[Desdemona]

Well, IDK... some jurors might also feel that not feeling sorry that one had to kill shows a disregard of human life and it might factor into their decision to incarcerate or not, given the wording of the law.

I don't see any indication that GZ does not feel sorry that he perceived a necessity to shoot TM that night. JMO

Are you suggesting his apology should have been, "I'm sorry I had to kill your son?" Do you think that would have gone over better? I don't. The words he spoke were no doubt carefully chosen. "Sorry for the loss of your son" takes responsibility and expresses compassion, while not ruling out that GZ thought his actions necessary to defend himself, nor his remorse about that necessity and its outcome. JMO