17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30

[CriticalThinking]

Which is why I said earlier that he was blind sided. They weren't expecting that (what should have been) an ordinary bond hearing would turn into a mini trial.

IMO

It was an Arthur Hearing and the state knew what could happen. They knew it could turn into a mini trial and really had no idea what O"Mara would do. This is a brilliant defense attorney and the state was unprepared.

 

[Emeralgem]

He says he saw a single man on the ground screaming for help. When asked what the man was wearing he said it was red shirt, but his mother claims police gave him a multiple choice of what the man was wearing and he picked red.

IIRC.. The mother was not happy with how the police conducted the interview.. She claimed she thought the police were manipulating her son to give them the answers they wanted to hear....JMHO

 

[m00c0w]

Very telling of what??? The SA detective investigated this crime weeks after this happened. His resources are statements given by witnesses, reports from LE, ME's report, 911 records, etc. He has no first hand knowledge and his signature confirms the fact that he and another detective looked at all the information and came to the conclusion that GZ should be charged. MOM was asking him if he had first hand knowledge and MOM knows this case was assigned to AC long after an LE investigation had begun. SA's do it all the time. They don't take statements from the defendants at the time of the crime. LE does that. It's up to the SA to put it together. MOM asks how can he swear to an affidavit it you don't know whether it's true. Even LE did not know whether or not GZ's statement was true until they started their investigation. All the investigator swore to was that the information within the document was to his knowledge true based on the reports he received. The investigator is saying this crime did not happen the way GZ said it did by the evidence they have gathered compared to the statement that GZ gave.

All I can say is if GZ walks because of the SYG law be prepared to see the law go down the drain because I do not see many people supporting it after this. Anyone could shoot you at any time and claim SYG and unless you are hiding under your bed they could get away with murder. jmo

MOM asked for specifics about claims and assertions made in the report, and where they came from. Since the investigator signed to and swore that the report was valid, I don't know why there are qualms with this. If he validated what was in the affidavit, as his signature implies he did, he should have reviewed the testimony the affidavit drew upon. If not, I'm not sure how he could swear to/affirm that everything in the affidavit was true, when he had not reviewed the material that ultimately make it truthful.

 

[Adrienne37]

Yep. On the 911, Zimmerman wouldn't commit to going back to his car or mailbox. He was about to, but changed his mind. That's why he told 911 to have LE just call him once they arrived.

GZ knew he was going "hunting," and was set to go wherever his continued search for Trayvon took him.

I also believe those a gun clicks also at the end of that 911 call -- precisely at the time he's saying LE should just call his cell.

Zimmerman's own words convey that he was not heading back to his car. I hope the audio technology can confirm that clicking sound in the background of his 911 call.

Also, one resident saw GZ doing something with his hands on TM's dead body. IMO, he was looking for evidence of theft, but found nothing. He seemed certain he'd caught a thief.

You know, we are lucky that Zimmerman didn't appear to have time to plant something on Trayvon's body. I've no doubt that thought crossed his mind that night.



~jmo~

 

[katydid23]

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?
====================================================

so the state contends that TM was at his home and was chased away from his home by GZ?

 

[PaintingAnemone]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/nation/s_792307.html

During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed

The state is locked into that now. To tell you the truth, I think they are using the girlfriend's statement as to what she heard. That is not an eye witness either. She heard something, but she saw nothing. The state may not make it through the SYG hearing.

Hearing can be just as important as seeing, especially when one of the points of the defense's story relates to the threatening statements that Martin is supposed to have made. I think it's pretty clear that Zimmerman had no idea Martin was on a telephone call when he put together certain elements of his story. For example, it would be like telling your mom the fight with your brother started because he called you a bad name, not knowing that she overheard the whole thing and knows you're the one who did the name-calling. She may not see which of you threw the first punch, but she knows you're not as innocent as you're trying to pretend. JMO.

The complete statement from the article you linked says:

During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed. However, he said that Zimmerman's statements, as well as his description of the injuries he suffered, are contradicted by other evidence in the case.

I'm not even sure that's an accurate analysis of the testimony, though. For one thing, Gilbreath stated that Zimmerman still continued to follow:

DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true that the dispatcher or operator tells Mr. Zimmerman, hold on -- that's my word -- but said something to the effect of you don't need to be following him, and he still continues to follow him?

GILBREATH: Yes.

And during cross from O'Mara, he gives a list of the evidence he knows of that indicates Zimmerman continued to follow:

- after coming back from commercial break -

O'MARA: -- or who they were or anything.

GILBREATH: They -- I cannot identify who they were, but it was at the same time frame this occurred.

O'MARA: Ok. Besides that any other evidence to support your conclusion that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow?

GILBREATH: Other than his call and that witness?

O'MARA: Yes.

GILBREATH: And the fact that where it ended up. No.

O'MARA: Well you do have some other evidence don't you? We had Zimmerman's statement, don't you?

GILBREATH: We have Mr. Zimmerman's statements, we have the shell casings and we had Mr. Martin's body.

To me, if you actually look at what is being said, Gilbreath doesn't say they don't have any evidence. In fact, he gives a list of evidence. O'Mara just plays cutesy with it, like, oh, aside from all that evidence you just named, do you have any OTHER evidence? I guess if someone weren't paying attention they could be left with the impression that there wasn't any evidence, but that doesn't appear to be true.

Anyway, that's just how I feel about it.

 

[m00c0w]

Oh, so you think that was someone else with TINY superficial scratches on their head that someone took pictures of? Do you think that was someone impersonating GZ and it really is not pictures of GZ's head?

Or maybe the pictures were someone else's idea. You're heavily implying that Zimmerman himself asked for the pictures to be taken. There is zero evidence of this.

 

[suzihawk]

I'm gettin' dizzy from all this 'round and 'round. :argue:

I'm gonna go do something more fun like, maybe... get a root canal.

:takeoff:

 

[LambChop]

The investigator did write at least part of that affidavit and signed it, didn't he?
So I am not sure why he wouldn't be able to answer questions he should know regardless of whatever he took time to prepare or not.

Because the questions were asked as if he were in the first person. He did not write the reports, he did not conduct the interviews, he did not talk to GZ so therefore the detective cannot say one way or another he compiled an affidavit on the reports of others. It is done all the time by SA's office. If MOM was interested in getting answers to these questions he should have directed them to the person who wrote the original reports. His intent was to discredit the investigator by getting him to slip up and cause some confusion. The investigator thought very carefully before he answered the questions because he was not prepared to answer testify which was obvious.

The judge was sitting right there so don't we think if there were anything wrong with that affidavit the judge would have spoken up. MOM was posturing, IMO. There was a camera in the room. We've seen it before. This is an attorney who is quite good at creating doubt in people's minds simply with a look, play on words, creating some confusion because people just don't know what is going on.....those whispers behind the pad. They are defense attorneys....it's what they do. lol

 

[LambChop]

I'm gettin' dizzy from all this 'round and 'round. :argue:

I'm gonna go do something more fun like, maybe... get a root canal.

:takeoff:

Wait up...I'm comin, too. lol

 

[HiHater]

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?
====================================================

so the state contends that TM was at his home and was chased away from his home by GZ?

Emphasis mine.

 

[gxm]

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?
====================================================

so the state contends that TM was at his home and was chased away from his home by GZ?

That is too funny! People have been claiming that GZ could never have arrived to where the shooting took place without running. Now they're trying to say he ran all the way to TM's house and chased him back in that amount of time?

And wouldn't TM have been slightly out of breath during his convo with the GF if he were running that hard?

Unbelievable. It's amazing the huge leaps in logic this case causes people to make.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[m00c0w]

Because the questions were asked as if he were in the first person. He did not write the reports, he did not conduct the interviews, he did not talk to GZ so therefore the detective cannot say one way or another he compiled an affidavit on the reports of others. It is done all the time by SA's office. If MOM was interested in getting answers to these questions he should have directed them to the person who wrote the original reports. His intent was to discredit the investigator by getting him to slip up and cause some confusion. The investigator thought very carefully before he answered the questions because he was not prepared to answer testify which was obvious.

The judge was sitting right there so don't we think if there were anything wrong with that affidavit the judge would have spoken up. MOM was posturing, IMO. There was a camera in the room. We've seen it before. This is an attorney who is quite good at creating doubt in people's minds simply with a look, play on words, creating some confusion because people just don't know what is going on.....those whispers behind the pad. They are defense attorneys....it's what they do. lol

Him signing the report isn't just verifying he did a spelling and grammar check. He's swearing that the information contained in it is true. This implies he has knowledge of the information in the document - how else can he validate it as true?

 

[HiHater]

Hearing can be just as important as seeing, especially when one of the points of the defense's story relates to the threatening statements that Martin is supposed to have made. I think it's pretty clear that Zimmerman had no idea Martin was on a telephone call when he put together certain elements of his story. For example, it would be like telling your mom the fight with your brother started because he called you a bad name, not knowing that she overheard the whole thing and knows you're the one who did the name-calling. She may not see which of you threw the first punch, but she knows you're not as innocent as you're trying to pretend. JMO.

The complete statement from the article you linked says:



I'm not even sure that's an accurate analysis of the testimony, though. For one thing, Gilbreath stated that Zimmerman still continued to follow:



And during cross from O'Mara, he gives a list of the evidence he knows of that indicates Zimmerman continued to follow:



To me, if you actually look at what is being said, Gilbreath doesn't say they don't have any evidence. In fact, he gives a list of evidence. O'Mara just plays cutesy with it, like, oh, aside from all that evidence you just named, do you have any OTHER evidence? I guess if someone weren't paying attention they could be left with the impression that there wasn't any evidence, but that doesn't appear to be true.

Anyway, that's just how I feel about it.

Great post. I won't bother snipping it, because it needs to appear on this board as many times as possible. It's been pointed out before, but people continue to ignore the actual words in the transcript and rely on media reporting.

 

[Emeralgem]

Wait up...I'm comin, too. lol

Me three.. Smoke and mirrors..Smoke and mirrors..Designed to confuse... JMHO

 

[HiHater]

That is too funny! People have been claiming that GZ could never have arrived to where the shooting took place without running. Now they're trying to say he ran all the way to TM's house and chased him back in that amount of time?

And wouldn't TM have been slightly out of breath during his convo with the GF if he were running that hard?

Unbelievable. It's amazing the huge leaps in logic this case causes people to make.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

What's ironic is that it took a huge leap in logic to characterize the SA's words to mean that Trayvon was chased from his home. That's what's really amazing.

 

[annalia]

That is too funny! People have been claiming that GZ could never have arrived to where the shooting took place without running. Now they're trying to say he ran all the way to TM's house and chased him back in that amount of time?

And wouldn't TM have been slightly out of breath during his convo with the GF if he were running that hard?

Unbelievable. It's amazing the huge leaps in logic this case causes people to make.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

:waitasec:

No where does anyone say that GZ chased him all the way home and back again.

The only leap is to say that it meant he was chased all the way home and that they both ran non stop all the way there, as opposed to what it really said, that it was 'near' his home, you know like on the way home, towards his home, close to his home, the walkway that led to his home.

JMHO

 

[katydid23]

Yep. On the 911, Zimmerman wouldn't commit to going back to his car or mailbox. He was about to, but changed his mind. That's why he told 911 to have LE just call him once they arrived.

GZ knew he was going "hunting," and was set to go wherever his continued search for Trayvon took him.

I also believe those are gun clicks also at the end of that 911 call -- precisely when he's implying that he won't be returning to his car (so LE should call his cellphone to find him).

Zimmerman's own words convey that he was not heading back to his car. I hope the audio technology can confirm that clicking sound in the background of his 911 call.

Also, one resident saw GZ doing something with his hands on TM's dead body. IMO, he was looking for evidence of theft, but found nothing. He seemed certain he'd caught a thief.

If you listen to other 911 calls, often, you hear the same clicks. I think they are the sounds of the dispatcher typing something or clicking something on her equipment. imo

 

[mercuriod]

Or maybe the pictures were someone else's idea. You're heavily implying that Zimmerman himself asked for the pictures to be taken. There is zero evidence of this.

Zimmerman at the very least consented to having that pic taken, within seconds of murdering a teenager. In my opinion whoever took that picture is just as DEPRAVED and EVIL as George Zimmerman, the two of them had a dying or dead child at their feet and instead of trying to help that teenager they were more concerned with taking pictures of a TEENY, TINY scratch on Zimmerman's head. If you ask me that points to PREMEDITATED murder, based on this "new" evidence of this picture coming out and supposedly having been taken within seconds of Zimmerman having murdered Trayvon, I believe Zimmerman has been undercharged with 2nd degree murder.

 

[m00c0w]

Zimmerman at the very least consented to having that pic taken, within seconds of murdering a teenager. In my opinion whoever took that picture is just as DEPRAVED and EVIL as George Zimmerman, the two of them had a dying or dead child at their feet and instead of trying to help that teenager they were more concerned with taking pictures of a TEENY, TINY scratch on Zimmerman's head. If you ask me that points to PREMEDITATED murder, based on this "new" evidence of this picture coming out and supposedly having been taken within seconds of Zimmerman having murdered Trayvon, I believe Zimmerman has been undercharged with 2nd degree murder.

How does what occurred after the incident point to premeditation? Where's the malice aforethought?

How is it known this picture wasn't taken as paramedics or police were working on Martin? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions with little factual basis.