17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

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  • #81
You would think he would be worried about supporting his family. Instead of Patroling he should have been on the internet looking for a job!

Why didn't he join the Service if he wanted to play with guns so much! :banghead:

Amen to that, My son is just recently back from Afganistan, and I have seen videos and know for sure that he would be able to shoot all he wanted to over there, but the problem with that is that there are people shooting BACK

And trust me there is nothing like videos of people shooting at your kid, even if they are Army and have a hairline like the coast of Florida....
 
  • #82
You would think he would be worried about supporting his family. Instead of Patroling he should have been on the internet looking for a job!

Why didn't he join the Service if he wanted to play with guns so much! :banghead:

Well, you don't play with guns in the service...You definitely don't get to chase people down and kill them. I think he needed more action than what the military would give him...

Oh, and there's that whole authority thing...he might have had a problem with that too.

JMO
 
  • #83
  • #84
It was a Sunday evening at about dinnertime (7:00 PM)

People have friends and relatives that visit and especially on Sunday evenings for dinner. People have pet-sitters, especially on weekends. Teenagers go for walks because they often don't have a car.

Burglars generally don't hang out, check out or approach anyone who might have seen them. They tend to turn their head away from possible witnesses to their presence in the the area. They do not want to be identified. They do not want to be seen.

If a burglar sees headlights or a person they tend to hide until a car passes. They are looking out for a time to strike when they will not be seen.

Burglaries tend to occur when people/residents are at work/away or asleep.

Burglars often where dark clothes and shoes not brand new white tennis shoes that can be seen in the dark.

IF a police officer had come up on the "scuffle" they most likely would not have shot & killed either person. They would have broken up the fight, asked questions and most likely arrested the person with the gun. If anyone would have been shot by a police officer, because of a physical fight, it would have been the person pointing the gun.

Good post..the biggest thing GZ doesn't understand: HE IS NOT A COP. JMO
 
  • #85
Most likely. I don't see any reason for him not to use SYG defense.

He wasn't standing his ground...that's the #1 reason not to use it IMO

I hope the defense throws us for a loop and uses insanity....
 
  • #86
Amen to that, My son is just recently back from Afganistan, and I have seen videos and know for sure that he would be able to shoot all he wanted to over there, but the problem with that is that there are people shooting BACK

And trust me there is nothing like videos of people shooting at your kid, even if they are Army and have a hairline like the coast of Florida....

Sensei
I'm so glad your Son is home from Afganistan. God Bless him. He is a hero!! I can't even imagine what those poor boys go through. I will pray he doesn't get another military deployment to one of those horrible countries.

Maybe if GZ had served he would have a whole new outlook on who his enemy really is!!!!
 
  • #87
  • #88
GZ would have to answer questions I don't think MOM wants him to answer. Once he testifies in a hearing and loses he is stuck with those answers before MOM can even look at what the state has. The State has already admitted that GZ's statements to LE conflict with some of their evidence. If GZ lied on his statement a SYG hearing would not be a walk in the park for him. jmo

OHHHH never thought of that, but I bet you are right. The SA is legally obligated to surrender all discovery within a reasonable time before trial...not a reasonable time before this SYG hearing so he would have to go into that blind, not knowing what the SA has as far as conflicting evidence and so forth. That is not a decision to be taken lightly...IMO
 
  • #89
  • #90
So what's this mean, in the scheme of things.....

I thought that was what it was all about for GZ


:waitasec:

His attorney said he still hasn't decided if he will use the "Stand Your Ground" law to justify the killing.



http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-police-chief-will-resign/nMf7R/

This is what I was asking earlier today. I do wonder if GZ and his attorney will use the SYG law.

This is my post from earlier today....Does anyone else wonder if GZ and his attorney will use the SYG law as their defense? I've done alot of reading about this law, I understand more then when this case started, I have not seen any true evidence in favor of GZ. I'm thinking the only true evidence will be from Trayvon's autoposy, unless there was evidence taken at the crime scene, but it appears as though LE believed there was no crime committed, so why would they take evidence.
 
  • #91
Sensei
I'm so glad your Son is home from Afganistan. God Bless him. He is a hero!! I can't even imagine what those poor boys go through. I will pray he doesn't get another military deployment to one of those horrible countries.

Maybe if GZ had served he would have a whole new outlook on who his enemy really is!!!!

Thank you very much....It was a tough year, I would jump anytime their was a strange number on the phone...and I am sure there are a lot of Mothers and wives out there doing the same thing tonight...God Bless them All.
 
  • #92
  • #93
The warning shot has been fired. MOM was fishing for information at the bond hearing. He now knows that there are 5 reports and conflicting information. I don't possibly see how George could win a SYG without being the chief source of testimony. The State would get a crack at George which probably won't happen in a trial. His testimony will be locked in. And the State would be able to impeach his testimony at SYG IMO if he has told different versions. I see this as a major risk for GZ.
 
  • #94
Exactly, If MOM feels that they have a really good chance after seeing the discovery then there will most likely be a SYG hearing, but they do NOT want to have this hearing if there is a significant chance that they will lose because first George will HAVE to testify at that hearing, in a trial he would not have to but in that he has no shot at getting the immunity if he does not testify and what he says is then information that the SA could cross him on at trial if he were to choose to testify. A SYG hearing will give the Prosecutor a preview of exactly what his defense is going to be at trial and precisely what story she is going to have to discredit....so if there is a chance that they stand to lose that hearing it will very likely not happen. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Prosecution already knows what GZs story is, it can't change too much. Defense can't spring a witness on them, they have to be on the witness list and depose by the state if they request it. The standards for evidence are different in the SYG hearing because it is in front of a judge and he in theory should not be swayed by a bright light distraction show like a jury might be. Things said by defense at the SYG hearing won't necessarily be heard word for word by a jury. And a judge may not want to give him immunity even with a preponderence of the evidence. He may pass it along to a jury, especially if he has an upcoming election. That won't be a popular decision no matter were it comes from.
 
  • #95
Maybe they will try to go for not guilty by reason of insanity.... (eg: paranoia, schizoid personality disorder, schizophrenia or something of that nature)

I don't know about that since I'm not sure he fits the one in three rule

You know one in three people are mentally unstable, so look at two friends and if they are all right you're it....Except look at two friends, he has Oliver and Taefe, and with Taefe on his team I am not sure that he is the IT.
IMO JMHO and stuff
 
  • #96
The warning shot has been fired. MOM was fishing for information at the bond hearing. He now knows that there are 5 reports and conflicting information. I don't possibly see how George could win a SYG without being the chief source of testimony. The State would get a crack at George which probably won't happen in a trial. His testimony will be locked in. And the State would be able to impeach his testimony at SYG IMO if he has told different versions. I see this as a major risk for GZ.

Several examples have been given of defendants who lied thru their teeth, multiple times, denied being the killer or involved at all, destroyed evidence, and changed the story a few more times. GZ having deviations in his story is hardly going to rattle the judges cage. Might carry more weight with a jury in all actuality.

The benefits versus the risks on an SYG hearing..... I cannot imagine a scenario where they don't have one.
 
  • #97
Amen to that, My son is just recently back from Afganistan, and I have seen videos and know for sure that he would be able to shoot all he wanted to over there, but the problem with that is that there are people shooting BACK

And trust me there is nothing like videos of people shooting at your kid, even if they are Army and have a hairline like the coast of Florida....

God Bless your son! I know what you must have gone though while he was away serving, my ds is an Iraq war veteran. There is no better blessing than the day that they return home safe and sound.
 
  • #98
Prosecution already knows what GZs story is, it can't change too much. Defense can't spring a witness on them, they have to be on the witness list and depose by the state if they request it. The standards for evidence are different in the SYG hearing because it is in front of a judge and he in theory should not be swayed by a bright light distraction show like a jury might be. Things said by defense at the SYG hearing won't necessarily be heard word for word by a jury. And a judge may not want to give him immunity even with a preponderence of the evidence. He may pass it along to a jury, especially if he has an upcoming election. That won't be a popular decision no matter were it comes from.

The Prosecution knows what some of his story is, but it came out in the bail hearing that there are different statements and some of them contradict the physical evidence and I bet some of them contradict each other...the prosecution would find out exactly which version they are going with at the hearing. IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
  • #99
Originally posted by Sherryk

Is there a document that I have not seen that shows that he did NOT follow orders, as in not to persue? Is that speculation. There have been described as witnesses that have confirmed that Zimmerman was approaching his vechicle. I just would like to see witness statements in writing that he did not retreat.. I could them fairly base an informed decision as to rather that is in fact accurate or not accurate. One witness the youngster that stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.. parent hired attorney and now stating that the witness statement was somehow incorrect.

Alot of people that do not know the facts that could either ruin a innocent mans life and an injustice to Travon's parents by NOT knowing what DID or DID not happen that night assuming they want to know the truth and not have a notion that they will believe what they choose to.

The entire matter is so sad when a life is lost, that being any human.
I repectfully respect your opinion on the matter.
Much thanks for the input.

End of Sherryk post

Below is the link to the single post for this post that I am responding to. The post was on thread 31 which is closed and I have no idea how to bring a post over from a closed thread.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7826554&postcount=889"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31[/ame]


In the post of mine that was responded to I stated that there is a fact that glares at me as if it were a bright neon sign. That fact is that if Zimmerman had followed the instructions he had been given then he would not be charged with 2nd degree murder and Trayvon would not have been killed that night. I stand by that fact considering that Zimmerman, along with all of the other neighborhood watch volunters in that neighborhood, had previously taken a training class by someone in LE that told them what to do, what not to do, when to call 911, when to call the non emergancy number, etc. In case any of the neighorhood watch volunters forgot what they learned during that training class they were given a neighborhood watch handbook that explained everything to them in clear language. For example, just one portion taken from said handbook:

You will add your “eyes and ears” to
those of the Police Department which
cannot be everywhere, all the time, by
keeping a watchful eye and open ear to
what is happening in your
neighborhood. You will extend their
ability to provide security by reporting
anything unusual or suspicious, 24 hours
a day, seven days a week, so they can
follow up on your leads. What you will
not do is get physically involved with
any activity you report or
apprehension of any suspicious
persons. This is the job of the law
enforcement agency.


I have bolded the part above that is also bolded in the neighborhood watch handbook. So, based on the above section and from reading the rest of the neighborhood watch handbook (which I will link at the end of this post) it is very clear to me that Zimmerman did in fact ignore instructions that were given to him. Even if one considers the dispatcher as not being an "instruction" but instead a "suggestion", I find it difficult to argue the same when it comes to the clear instructions detailed in the handbook.

MOO

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html
click on Neighborhood Watch Handbook which will load the handbook information
 
  • #100
Several examples have been given of defendants who lied thru their teeth, multiple times, denied being the killer or involved at all, destroyed evidence, and changed the story a few more times. GZ having deviations in his story is hardly going to rattle the judges cage. Might carry more weight with a jury in all actuality.

The benefits versus the risks on an SYG hearing..... I cannot imagine a scenario where they don't have one.

BBM I don't see any judge getting his cage rattled. But I do see a judge throwing out SYG in this case if George's stories and the evidence don't match up. Or the stories are so different that his credibility is lost. I think this is a huge risk to let the State get a chance to interview George under oath.
 
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