17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[LambChop]

Yes, but did Zimmerman know that? If not, what difference does it make?

So, instead of sneaking in.... get invited as a guest to a private gated community. Then, go for a walk. Leave the community, maybe going to a convenience store to get some candy. Then return to the gated community, making sure your hoodie is on before you re-enter, making sure you walk around slowly, "checking stuff out", and see what happens. Then, when you get followed by a security guard or security watch person, try to lose him. Then, after you lose him, sneak up behind him, confront him for following you and harassing you, hit him in the face with such force that his nose breaks and he's knocked to the ground, jump on him, and start bashing his head on the sidewalk.

Another way to go is to thank the security person for his diligence, and politely and respectfully explain why you're there.

Do you think one of these approaches might be more likely to get you shot?

1. GZ was not security, not identified as security by wearing a uniform, ID, etc. and could not do so because he was not security and only a private citizen acting as a private citizen. At least if the community had a security officer on duty TM would have been able to identify him.

2. TM did not put his hoodie on until after he was inside the gated community near the club house and it was raining. Certainly not something that should be considered unusual.

3. According to the timeline TM was walking straight home not sneaking around. GZ never identified himself which is evidenced on his call to dispatch. He left his vehicle when he had no obligation to do so.

4. There is no proof TM tried to sneak up on GZ and the SA's investigator said the evidence is to the contrary given the location of the body. Apparently other details GZ gave in his statement just do not line up with the evidence.

5. Why would TM thank someone when he did not know who he was, why he was following him and what he was after? The responsibility of that was with GZ to identify himself, he was the one who was following TM and tracking him down. There is no way GZ can deny that. Normal people do not thank others for harassing and terrorizing them. Had this man tried to follow me I can think of a few words I would have to say to him and they could not be thank you. People get very nervous when they are being followed for no apparent reason.

6. GZ stands alone in the having the responsibility to identify himself and apologize for detaining TM by asking him questions and it should have been done when GZ initially saw TM and he had LE on the line. It would have cleared the matter up without tying up a patrol car. IMO that is pretty clear to everyone by now.

I think the way to insure TM was not shot was for GZ to confront him when he had the chance with LE on the line. He did not do that so the question is why???? GZ went on the make one mistake after another with total disregard for the safety of others. TM was not the only person out walking that night. There was John and there was the young boy walking his dog. Both of them could have been shot. Very irresponsible behavior on GZ's part. jmo

 

[badme102]

I'm just wondering how Trayvon was:

1) Pinning GZ down (takes 2 hands)
2) Covering GZ's mouth with BOTH hands with all his body weight (takes 2 hands)
3) Smashing GZ's head over and over on the sidewalk, one step away from being spoon fed and wearing diapers. (takes 2 hands)

How do you bash someone’s head into the sidewalk while you have them pinned, when that person outweighs you and is putting up a fight? Can’t be done. His head might bump the sidewalk as they are rolling about in a fight, but there is no way Trayvon would be able to purposefully “slam” his head into anything and still have enough arms free to keep him pinned.
Same can be said about the other ridiculous fabrication of Trayvon holding his mouth and nose with all his weight

Like I said before, just HOW MANY hands did this kid have? What a crock!

Nope, I think its fairly obvious, when looking objectively at the real evidence and timeline in this case, that GZ stalked/pursued/chased and CAUGHT Trayvon. He was not going to another effing punk a**hole get away this time. No sir! He was wearing his cop wannabe "hat" and was desperately trying to be a hero to the REAL police, because he had failed miserably in becoming a REAL cop himself.

Trayvon Martin had every right to be in that community and was unjustifiably PROFILED. GZ should be ashamed of himself, not only for wrongly profiling an innocent child, but for chasing him, confronting him and murdering him.

The prosecutors are obviously going to prove that after being chased down and confronted by zimmerman, this unarmed kid was in fear of his life and attempted to protect himself, in any way he could. He stood his OWN ground, and unfortunately he wasn't successful.

Trayvon Martin is the only victim in this case, and frankly, seeing him being blamed for his own death is sickening me.

 

[grammieto5]

Isn't the reason GZ was not arrested is because he was using the SYG law????

 

[grandmaj]

Remember these posts I made this morning on Thread #31. I meant to post these up yonder when I made the new thread but work got away from me.
Quote:
This is not a warning to one poster, but to many:

I am on duty (off and on) during the day today and I will NOT put up with the personal jabs like the mods did yesterday. If you guys want to get personal with each other, expect a time out because it will happen. I am not here to edit and remove posts.

Everyone has now been forewarned. Continue on and play nice!
Quote:
Stop discussing what other posters should be posting NOW. If you see victim bashing, alert the post. Mods don't read every post and by bringing this up on the thread, you are merely going to start problems.

The above post was from Kimster this morning. It stands tonight as well and every other day!

Everyone read the opening post. Also refresh yourself on our TOS. And be forewarned. We are some 7 weeks into this case. THE RULES HAVE BEEN REPEATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER. From this point on I'm not going to continue to snip. If your post is out of line it goes in total. And anyone continuing to violate the respect policy here is going on a TO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Almost certainly. The question is whether "the lesson" planned was to get him in the hands of the police, or to shoot him dead.

It's not very likely for someone planning a murder to call the police right before the murder. I think you're giving GZ a little too much intellectual credit if you think that's what he did.

I don't give him anything other then his due and I believe he was planning on stopping him from going out that back gate. IMO

 

[Ninety5rpm]

LOL What would prevent a nut or whacko from living in a gated community? Or a pedaphile? Or a rapist? They don't have signs on their foreheads, ya know.

Nothing, of course. I was talking about likelihoods/probability.

While it's possible that you're being followed by a nutjob, it's more likely to be what I said - someone just suspicious of someone who is unfamiliar.

Besides, even if it is a nutjob, that doesn't justify breaking his nose and beating him.

 

[jjenny]

I have no idea what this post means.

Why wouldn't GZ's lawyer ask for SYG hearing considering those other cases where judges granted SYG immunity? Posters here constantly point out that GZ put himself into the situation. And yet there appears to be plenty of other cases where people put themselves into the situations-and got SYG immunity. Some of those cases are pretty mind boggling to me yet those people got immunity just the same.

 

[badme102]

BBM

We heard in the hearing George's story does not add up.

StorieS

Frankly, I wouldn't believe GZ if his tongue came notarized.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

1. GZ was not security, not identified as security by wearing a uniform, ID, etc. and could not do so because he was not security and only a private citizen acting as a private citizen. At least if the community had a security officer on duty TM would have been able to identify him.

2. TM did not put his hoodie on until after he was inside the gated community near the club house and it was raining. Certainly not something that should be considered unusual.

3. According to the timeline TM was walking straight home not sneaking around. GZ never identified himself which is evidenced on his call to dispatch. He left his vehicle when he had no obligation to do so.

4. There is no proof TM tried to sneak up on GZ and the SA's investigator said the evidence is to the contrary given the location of the body. Apparently other details GZ gave in his statement just do not line up with the evidence.

5. Why would TM thank someone when he did not know who he was, why he was following him and what he was after? The responsibility of that was with GZ to identify himself, he was the one who was following TM and tracking him down. There is no way GZ can deny that. Normal people do not thank others for harassing and terrorizing them. Had this man tried to follow me I can think of a few words I would have to say to him and they could not be thank you. People get very nervous when they are being followed for no apparent reason.

6. GZ stands alone in the having the responsibility to identify himself and apologize for detaining TM by asking him questions and it should have been done when GZ initially saw TM and he had LE on the line. It would have cleared the matter up without tying up a patrol car. IMO that is pretty clear to everyone by now.

I think the way to insure TM was not shot was for GZ to confront him when he had the chance with LE on the line. He did not do that so the question is why???? GZ went on the make one mistake after another with total disregard for the safety of others. TM was not the only person out walking that night. There was John and there was the young boy walking his dog. Both of them could have been shot. Very irresponsible behavior on GZ's part. jmo

Thank you for the reasonable response. I still think there is too much speculation, and we know where the burden is.

Still, I'd like to know what the inconsistencies are in GZ's story and the evidence. That could make or break this case.

Gotta go. Nice chattin' with ya all.

 

[jaded cat]

Nothing, of course. I was talking about likelihoods/probability.

While it's possible that you're being followed by a nutjob, it's more likely to be what I said - someone just suspicious of someone who is unfamiliar.

Besides, even if it is a nutjob, that doesn't justify breaking his nose and beating him.

We have no evidence that's what actually happened.

 

[kimpage]

Yes, but did Zimmerman know that? If not, what difference does it make?

So, instead of sneaking in.... get invited as a guest to a private gated community. Then, go for a walk. Leave the community, maybe going to a convenience store to get some candy. Then return to the gated community, making sure your hoodie is on before you re-enter, making sure you walk around slowly, "checking stuff out", and see what happens. Then, when you get followed by a security guard or security watch person, try to lose him. Then, after you lose him, sneak up behind him, confront him for following you and harassing you, hit him in the face with such force that his nose breaks and he's knocked to the ground, jump on him, and start bashing his head on the sidewalk.

Another way to go is to thank the security person for his diligence, and politely and respectfully explain why you're there.

Do you think one of these approaches might be more likely to get you shot?

Then why didnt GZ just hey i am neighborhood watch can i ask who you are?/And why are you here??? I believe GZ is nothing more than a wanna be cop itching to use his gun.And poor TM was his target...And possibly GZ was alerted by Frank Taffee.I see no reason for TM to have attacked GZ.But GZ was itching to attack as is evidenced by his 911 call. IMHO JMHO and all that

 

[jaded cat]

Why wouldn't GZ's lawyer ask for SYG hearing considering those other cases where judges granted SYG immunity? Posters here constantly point out that GZ put himself into the situation. And yet there appears to be plenty of other cases where people put themselves into the situations-and got SYG immunity. Some of those cases are pretty mind boggling to me yet those people got immunity just the same.

I didn't ask the question. I was asking about a case impatientredhead mentioned, nothing to do with GZ.

 

[pcrum12]

What do you think is the reason he got out of his vehicle? He obviously had a reason, because he did get out. What do you think it might have been?


Do you think he was thinking this might be his chance to shoot someone? Maybe he planned to follow him, hoped for a confrontation, so he could have an excuse to shoot him. Is that what you're thinking?

Or, maybe he took his (unpaid) "security" job a little too seriously? Maybe he saw it as his duty to figure out why someone unfamiliar/suspicious is in the gated community? Maybe he was telling the truth when he was talking to the police dispatcher about being concerned the suspicious looking person would get away before the police got there, so he decided to follow him. Maybe that's why he started running when Trayvon started running?

Seems to me that the latter explanation is much more likely to be true. Gated communities are very different from public communities. One of the main reasons people live in gated communities is for the security, and much of that security stems from treating anyone who is unfamiliar as being suspicious.

If you don't know what I mean, try putting on a hoodie and sneaking into a gated community, especially one with a security team (paid or voluntary), and see what happens. Then, when you get followed by a security guard or security watch person, try to lose him. Then, after you lose him, sneak up behind him, confront him for following you and harassing you, hit him in the face with such force that his nose breaks and he's knocked to the ground, jump on him, and start bashing his head on the sidewalk (note: a photo showing bleeding on the back of Zimmerman's head minutes after the shooting has been released).

Think you won't get shot? <mod snip>

Hitting the Thanks button just wasn't enough. Bravo!

 

[highflyer]

Florida shooter Zimmerman needs protection while out on bail, lawyer says..

Mark O'Mara also said he was considering seeking a taxpayer-funded bodyguard for Zimmerman if the threats continue, according to the report.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...protection-while-out-on-bail-lawyer-says?lite

While I want Mr. Zimmerman to be safe I fail to see why taxpayers should foot the bill for a bodyguard. Mr. Zimmerman wanted to be out on bail and he got his wish.

 

[elementary]

I'm not forgetting that at all. It has no relevance whatsoever, since GZ was breaking no laws for simply following someone, especially in a private gated community.

Being followed by a crazy person is a pretty unlikely situation in a gated community. Much more likely is it's someone like a busybody on the board of the HOA, or some other do-gooder resident snooping around to make sure nobody unauthorized is in the community (as GZ turned out to be).

But the more important point is that noticing someone unfamiliar walking around, thinking they're suspicious, calling the police to report them, and getting out of one's vehicle to follow them, even if told by the police dispatcher that that is unnecessary, is all perfectly legal. As far as I know, there is absolutely nothing legally wrong with doing any and all of that, and it's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do in a private gated community, especially by the neighborhood watch dude.

You're promoting a double standard here. It's okay to be followed by a stranger (more likely to be benign), but it is not okay to be a stranger (more likely to be suspect) minding his own business.

 

[Nova]

But when defense attorney questioned him he said the injuries were consistent.

No, he said the injuries were consistent with GZ's head striking a harder substance, including concrete. He specifically did NOT say the injuries were consistent with GZ's story of how the injuries occurred.

 

[grammieto5]

ugh this thread is sooo interesting, but I have to stop reading and fix dinner.. hmmm wonder how hubby would feel about having pizza delivered

 

[momshrink]

StorieS

Frankly, I wouldn't believe GZ if his tongue came notarized.

:goodpost:
Post of the day!

 

[Phoenixfla]

LOL What would prevent a nut or whacko from living in a gated community? Or a pedaphile? Or a rapist? They don't have signs on their foreheads, ya know.

Actually many community associations require the buyer apply to the association for approval. That generally involves a background search and the association can disapprove someone if they were convicted of one of those things.

 

[highflyer]

Didn't GZ have flashlights with him too? Were they maglight hard or tactical? Could leave a nasty abrasion. Wonder if they were confiscated?