17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[highflyer]

No excuses.

A poster said he was told don't follow.
He wasn't.

That's not an excuse. That's factual. We all heard it in the 911 tape.

That isn't true. "We don't need you to do that" "Okay"

 

[grandmaj]

Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.
Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.

Of course we allow some speculation and theory. But when that is all that is posted for an entire day it is time to bring it back around. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As has been posted before, there are no shifts for NW. You're just supposed to, ya know, watch. Traveling to the store and being on watch are not mutally exclusive.

Carrying a gun while acting in the duties of NW is a violation of the rules. He already called LE and they were on their way. He had no reason whatsoever to leave his truck.

I disagree. If I'm going to the store and have a CWP, I'm taking my gun with me. I don't care about the NWP rules. If I get caught breaking the rules then I guess I can be removed from the program. And if I'm removed from the NWP, it's no big deal. I can still call the police just like before. So to me being a member of the NW means very little. JMO.

 

[jaded cat]

Does anyone know if the martin family can have the autopsy report sealed since TM was a minor?

I saw your question earlier and I didn't answer cuz I thought someone else would. I did some searches and from all I read, any medical records relating to a minor can only be released by the parents. That doesn't include autopsy reports because they are considered part of public records.

There may be some courtesy towards the Martins because there is no current need for the public to have this information. I'd like to know the results of his tox screen and any reported physical damage to TM. My curiosity is tempered by my respect for their grief. I'm guessing we won't know until the trial, if there is one.

 

[HiHater]

well, one thing I noticed in those 46 or 47 pages of GZ previous 911 calls was that at some point the dispatchers started writing just "George" as the complainant as opposed to his earlier calls where they wrote out "George Zimmerman." It is safe to say they were on a first name basis with "George."

Hmmm...

Looking into the Collison case, it's ironic that a good deal of those officers were charged with misconduct for violating this policy:

Rules and Regulations, Section 300-15. Impartial Attitude and Actions,to wit: All employees shall remain completely impartial in their attitude and actions toward all persons coming to the attention of the Department.

I think history may have repeated itself...:moo:

 

[grandmaj]

Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.
Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.

Of course we allow some speculation and theory. But when that is all that is posted for an entire day it is time to bring it back around. Thanks.

Bump, bring this thread back around please. Enough bickering.

 

[LambChop]

I see it my way, you see it your way... Nuff said..I'm through discussing it.. Bottom line for me... GZ knew dispatch did not want him to follow TM..JMHO

Maybe it easier to put it in the plain English. LE does not want any person to get involved in situation once they have been called in. It now becomes a police matter and anything you do, such as to follow someone when you are told you do not have to is interferring with their investigation. I'm sure the dispatch thought he had made that quite clear to GZ without going great detail because GZ said "okay"...not well why can't I follow him because I really want to see where he is going. LE then would have explained to him, AGAIN, because the officer at the NWP meeting made it quite clear that "this is our job". You call it in and you are done. GZ had the option of waiting for LE or going home according to the dispatcher....nothing more. By ignoring the request by the dispatcher and taking the matter into his own hands the very thing LE tries to avoid happened. This is a fact.

It is not an argument....ask any police officer once you call it in you are done. It's their call, their responsibility and unless someone's life is in danger you are to stand down and wait. It can't be any clearer than that. And GZ knew that. GZ knew exactly what he was doing. What he failed to understand is that TM did not have to answer his questions, did not have to wait for LE because GZ was nothing to TM and had no authority and no proof of any authority and that is because GZ had no authority to stop TM period.

Isn't it funny how if GZ's gun had gone off and killed the young man who was walking his dog we would have an entirely different reaction here on this forum. GZ put people's lives in danger and the end result was that someone died and it could very well have been someone sitting at their kitchen table doing their homework. Think about that for a moment. jmo

 

[Nova]

Thanks so much for refreshing our memories with this piece of drivel. He's been pretty vocal about the charges for quite a while. I read it a couple of weeks ago. First off, Alan Dershowitz knows absolutely nothing about this case other than what he has read, just the same as the rest of us. He has no clue what evidence there is. When he comes down here and takes a look at what evidence there is in this case, then perhaps his "opinion" will mean a little bit more.



~jmo~

But Dershowitz' point is precisely what you say: the "evidence" of which you speak is NOT in the probable cause affidavit! Why not?

Why should the state's attorney be able to get a defendant charged and forced to pay bond (let's remember that 10% of the bond is non-refundable) without even alleging sufficient facts to prove a crime has been created?

Dershowitz is complaining about a decline in "probable cause" standards. A judge is not supposed to be rubber-stamping the prosecutor's whims. There's a reason why probably cause affidavits are required.

And if we're fair, we have to admit the p.c. affidavit in this case is pretty thin.

 

[LambChop]

I saw your question earlier and I didn't answer cuz I thought someone else would. I did some searches and from all I read, any medical records relating to a minor can only be released by the parents. That doesn't include autopsy reports because they are considered part of public records.

There may be some courtesy towards the Martins because there is no current need for the public to have this information. I'd like to know the results of his tox screen and any reported physical damage to TM. My curiosity is tempered by my respect for their grief. I'm guessing we won't know until the trial, if there is one.

I think they can release the autopy report just not the pictures. Caylee's report was released during discovery. If it were sealed I do not think it will be favorable for GZ. jmo

 

[Cher352]

No problem, sorry, it was directed personally at you. We just keep seeing so many different heights attributed to him.

Question:

Do autopsy reports list an actual measured height and weight?
I can't remember.

 

[elementary]

i.b.nora

Registered User



http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16177849

"The person who took the photograph of a bloodied Zimmerman, asking not to be identified, told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The person recalled seeing Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and said the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible.

Page 2

The photographer said that after the shooting, Zimmerman asked the photographer to call his wife. When the photographer asked him what to say, Zimmerman blurted out, "Man, just tell her I shot someone."

Investigators have seen the photo."

Not sure that necessarily means Police investigators. Maybe it means Mark O'Mara investigators?

I know nothing about guns and powder burns, etc. Trayvon was found lying face down I thought. If that is so, do guns fired at close range from the front produce burns in the back?

 

[jjenny]

But Dershowitz' point is precisely what you say: the "evidence" of which you speak is NOT in the probable cause affidavit! Why not?

Why should the state's attorney be able to get a defendant charged and forced to pay bond (let's remember that 10% of the bond is non-refundable) without even alleging sufficient facts to prove a crime has been created?

Dershowitz is complaining about a decline in "probable cause" standards. A judge is not supposed to be rubber-stamping the prosecutor's whims. There's a reason why probably cause affidavits are required.

And if we're fair, we have to admit the p.c. affidavit in this case is pretty thin.

Dershowitz claims it's not just thin, it could be perjurious.

“If she in fact knew about ABC News’ pictures of the bloody head of Zimmerman and failed to include that in the affidavit, this affidavit is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,” Dershowitz said. “It’s a perjurious affidavit.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/2...overreached-with-murder-charge/#ixzz1t5jKwaxk

 

[suspicious1]

I don't think so not IF that was Trayvon moaning and wailing..And IMHO those screams I heard were not coming from GZ. It was Trayon screaming and pleading for his life..JMHO

Hey Em,

There is no doubt in MY mind that was Trayvon screaming on the 911 call. It just amazes me that some think that GZ first viewed Tray as a "kid" but then after being "attacked" thought that he was much older? It's crazy!

Makes no sense to me.....jmo

 

[LambChop]

But Dershowitz' point is precisely what you say: the "evidence" of which you speak is NOT in the probable cause affidavit! Why not?

Why should the state's attorney be able to get a defendant charged and forced to pay bond (let's remember that 10% of the bond is non-refundable) without even alleging sufficient facts to prove a crime has been created?

Dershowitz is complaining about a decline in "probable cause" standards. A judge is not supposed to be rubber-stamping the prosecutor's whims. There's a reason why probably cause affidavits are required.

And if we're fair, we have to admit the p.c. affidavit in this case is pretty thin.

From Gilbreath's testimony it sounds as if they caught GZ in a lie with what happened prior to the confrontation in the sense that what GZ claims happened could not have happened due to the evidence at the crime scene and TM's body. Why else would the judge hold GZ??? jmo

 

[shadowraiths]

You don't find it at all interesting?? That's quite a coincidence that two people in the Sanford area would use that same exact quote. :floorlaugh: Just sayin'.

MOO

Then again, the poster used the term, "constituents." How many nobodies would use a term like that with the media? Oh wait. ( link )

 

[Reader]

But then that means he had no intent on killing TM. He just wanted to 'apprehend' him.

No, that's not what I meant...I was responding to this post by you about GZ's general policy of always calling 911/LE at every possible excuse:

Originally Posted by cityslick
Why would he even bother to call 911 then? I've never heard of someone who didn't like cops but yet called them at every opportunity as he thought he needed too?

I personally don't know what his 'intent' was the night he killed Trayvon...I've posted my opinion of the various reasons he might have had before....He seemed to be mad about a lot of things, particularly with 'these AO's getting away'...He made a huge mistake starting this entire situation and confrontation and now he is being held responsible for it which seems to be an unusual result for him.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I can't believe we're re-visiting this whole "you don't need to do that" issue yet again.

:sigh:

Uhh...especially since his father, lawyer, AND the Investigator for the SA all say George's statement to LE was that he stopped when told by the dispatcher.

Seems he, then, suddenly developed an urge for an address hunt.

ZIMMERMAN: When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was.

He continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1svJVUFyf

O'MARA: And then he said he went back around and went towards his car, did he not? In his statement.

GILBREATH: In his statement after he was told not to talk by the dispatcher.

O'MARA: Got you.

GILBREATH: He says that he continued on to find a street sign

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

Dangest thing I've seen in a while. After walking and following his man for just 18 seconds, George says he stopped following and decided to go 140 feet straight ahead to the next street for an address/street sign, instead of going back towards his truck 20 or 30 feet to the front of 1211 Twin Towers, which was right behind him!

 

[LambChop]

I disagree. If I'm going to the store and have a CWP, I'm taking my gun with me. I don't care about the NWP rules. If I get caught breaking the rules then I guess I can be removed from the program. And if I'm removed from the NWP, it's no big deal. I can still call the police just like before. So to me being a member of the NW means very little. JMO.

Right. There is no patrol. You are just normal homeowner/resident who agrees if they see something suspicious they agree to call it in. Does not required you to leave your home and no one is "on duty" because there is no such requirement. If you see something that does not look right, you can call it in and let LE check it out. That is it. jmo

 

[Beyond Belief]

There are no shifts. No one has "duty". It's a WATCH program. Watch and report. Period. The End.

Ours does, they even ride up and down the streets in the HOA car. They have a schedule of whose on duty.
What I am asking is if the HOA is responsible for someones action when they are not on duty. Taking the responsibility for a residents actions 24/7 is really going out on a limb. IMO

I don't want to get sued if something happens out here.

 

[LinasK]

No, what was said was they didn't NEED him doing that.

Big difference IMO.

I disagree, it's a more indirect, polite way of saying the same thing. How do we know the dispatcher wasn't Japanese? In Japanese culture being too direct is a bad thing, so they are taught to couch things more politely. Still means the same thing- DO NOT follow.