17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #34

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  • #781
Why wouldn't he say that then? Why tell AC360 one thing and JVM another about how he received it? To me it sounds like he changed his story from receiving all the money via fedex to transferring it moments after he found out about it. imo.
:moo:
Since I don't watch those shows, I'm unaware whether O'M told two TH's two conflicting stories (as you indicate), or whether there could have been two separate payments made, as I speculated in my post. That idea was based only on my reading of what was reported in this thread. Sorry, can't answer your questions. JMO
 
  • #782
  • #783
BBM: that's my point, Katy. The missing elements you list are indicators of 1ST DEGREE murder, not 2nd degree. I need to check the Florida statutes again, but 2nd degree doesn't require intent. In most states, it requires "malice" (or some equivalent concept) which is a degree of recklessness, not an attitude (as it is in popular usage). IIRC, Florida calls it a "depraved mind", but that has nothing to do with depravity in the popular sense nor with malice of forethought.

If GZ used his gun without regard for the consequences (and not in SYG or self-defense), then that could well meet the Florida standard for 2nd degree. To make it manslaughter, I think (IANAL) the jury will have to conclude there was a mitigating level of provocation. And perhaps they will do so.

Looks like you are correct, if it was premeditated, had he set out with the intent to murder, it would have been a first degree murder charge, looks like that's exactly why he wasn't charged with first degree murder.

Definition of Second Degree Murder

The crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits either:
•Murder with a Depraved Mind or
•Accomplice Felony Murder

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/homicide/second-degree-murder.html


JMHO
 
  • #784
Not even close to being that simple.Just because someone has a minor injury (that happened to bleed a bit) does NOT give them license to kill another human being.

If one individual started a "fight" with someone else, and the instigator happened to be getting his azz kicked, is it then OK for him to kill the person he started the fight with? NO.

It does not matter if Zimmerman has a head wound. What matters is that Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself by initiating a confrontation and ended up killing the person he was struggling with, IMO.

I respectfully disagree with you. Zimmerman could have suffered a severe head injury had Trayvon continued pounding his head into the concrete. A severe head injury can cause death. IMO
 
  • #785
  • #786
He is cuffed behind his back in the police station in the red jacket. He is also in the red jacket when the photo of his head was taken. I have no clue what it is JVM showing but it doesn't fit.

That may be a picture that was just provided to JVS for the program. He's certainly not leaning up against a police car and it does not appear he is in cuffs, plus his hair has grown out a little. He's not in custody because he has a diamond earing in his ear. jmo
 
  • #787
Zimmerman's website pulled in $200,000 - YouTube

Just found this on youtube. JVM show. Is this it? (Hope I can post this)

Is that actual footage from the night of the shooting? Also, I heard that those dash cams automatically turn on when the emergency lights come on! There has to be dash cams! And yes, that does look like George, in a plain-as-day WHITE T-SHIRT!

Didn't one of the witnesses say that someone with a white T-shirt on was on top at one point? I'm wondering if George's jacket was taken off during the struggle?

This is so crazy!! Don't see any blood on the back of the white shirt either.

MOO
 
  • #788
Is that actual footage from the night of the shooting? Also, I heard that those dash cams automatically turn on when the emergency lights come on! There has to be dash cams! And yes, that does look like George, in a plain-as-day WHITE T-SHIRT!

Didn't one of the witnesses say that someone with a white T-shirt on was on top at one point? I'm wondering if George's jacket was taken off during the struggle?

This is so crazy!! Don't see any blood on the back of the white shirt either.

MOO
That looks like Zimmerman? Really?
Doesn't look like Zimmerman at all to me. Looks to be white male with blond hair.
 
  • #789
  • #790
OK, JVM just showed about a 2 second clip of the scene after LE got there about 5 times, It does look like GZ leaning against a cruiser in a white tee-shirt, hand cuffed behind his back, without a coat on ! While at the police station he has a gray shirt and his coat on. The pic someone took of his head he had on the coat. WTH is going on ?

IDK, it could be, I suppose. Hard to get a good grab in this situation.
 

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  • #791
I respectfully disagree with you. Zimmerman could have suffered a severe head injury had Trayvon continued pounding his head into the concrete. A severe head injury can cause death. IMO

You are absolutely correct in saying that a severe head injury can cause death. IMO, GZ didn't have anything close to a severe head injury and according to Gilbreath, his story of getting his head smashed over and over on the sidewalk in inconsistent with the evidence they found.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html (just in case)

The only fact that either one of us can clearly agree on, is that we don't know how he got those scratches on his head. They could be there for any number of reasons.
 
  • #792
  • #793
Well, if it's not Zimmerman then who else was put into handcuffs that night?


~jmo~

Where do you even see those handcuffs? The guy is standing between cars, you can't even see his hands.
 
  • #794
OK, JVM just showed about a 2 second clip of the scene after LE got there about 5 times, It does look like GZ leaning against a cruiser in a white tee-shirt, hand cuffed behind his back, without a coat on ! While at the police station he has a gray shirt and his coat on. The pic someone took of his head he had on the coat. WTH is going on ?

He's totally bald, and at the police station GZ has hair.
 
  • #795
That looks like Zimmerman? Really?
Doesn't look like Zimmerman at all to me. Looks to be white male with blond hair.

I see no hair on the person standing by the police car? He looks about the right height and build as George Zimmerman.

Those dash cams should show this closer. I say it looks like him, but I'm not going to say it IS him. However, one of the witnesses seen someone with a white T-shirt on... and this person has a white T-shirt on!

MOO
 
  • #796
:martini:

Here are transcripts from AC360 last night and JVM tonight where O'Mara explains how he received the $200K (or 150K?) from GZ. (JVM didn’t have transcripts up yet so I transcribed part of the interview).


4/26/12: AC360 (part of O’Mara interview)

COOPER: Are you upset that George Zimmerman didn't disclose this to you earlier? Do you -- I mean do you feel like he was trying to keep it from you? Or what?

O'MARA: I truly don't think so because it was almost offhand that we discussed, and he said what to do with all the money in the PayPal accounts after we closed out his presence. And I asked him what he talked about. He told me the amount. I said, well, that's a significant amount of money, we need to secure that because we need to make sure that we administer it properly. And it came right to me. He'd literally FedEx'd me the checks.

COOPER: You've -- his Web site is now shut down. Will he be soliciting more money from supporters in other ways to your knowledge?

O'MARA: We certainly intend to open a legal defense fund under my purview done the right way, because I've had dozens -- hundreds actually of people wanting to donate. I don't believe that I can request donations at this point. There's a certain process you have to put in place. But I've already had, I think, 30, 40, 50 people just send money and checks to us. We've, of course, logged all of those and have all the money now in that same trust account.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/acd.01.html


4/27/12 Jane Velez Mitchell (part of O’Mara interview)

JVM: When did you find out exactly about this money & were you as shocked as many others have been?

MOM: Well I think it was late Tues late afternoon, I can go back & look, um and it really came up literally as a matter of closing out some of the online presence that GZ had. Once we closed down all of the websites, he asked about the PayPals, and that’s when I found out there was that much and I I must agree it is a lot of money, it was surprising that people have been so committed to George that they would offer or donate that much money. Not to suggest that it’s not going to take a lot more than that to defend him but I was surprised that there was that much gathered in one month.

JVM: We knew about this website before last week’s bond hearing, did you ever flat out ask GZ before the hearing, hey, how much money have you raised with that website of yours?

MOM: NO. Actually, the only insight that I had, there were 2 other websites administered by somebody else, um I think one was a local group who was raising money for him and then one by one of his friends. I heard that there was like 2000 in one and 700 in the other, that’s what I told Judge Lester at the hearing. I didn’t know about the money, it just wasn’t really discussed, I guess I’ll take some responsibility for not really vetting all that through, but there was a lot else going on in trying to get this, keep him safe & get him ready for release.

JVM: Did you make a mistake by not asking GZ flat out how much money have you collected, before the hearing, where there wasa a cla m this guy was broke?

MOM: Absolutely. I mean without question. Think about it. Had, knowing what I know, which is that, as soon as the opportunity presented itself for George to discuss it with me, as soon as that presented itself, him telling me without question, and transferring the money into my trust account literally moments later so I know his position in it. So certainly had I asked him that question beforehand, I would’ve said these very words, George do you have any money. Yes. How much is it. What’s its purpose. We’re going to move it into my trust account. We’re going to go before the judge and say judge, we have a little money in the family but there’s 200 or 150,000 in my trust account, that’s what we have. Because at that point, which would’ve accomplished the same exact thing, Judge Lester would’ve granted a bond, and it would’ve been a high bond, I consider 150,000 a high bond. All that would’ve been the difference, if you think about it, is that money would’ve already been in my trust account to be used for the purpose it was created. Now the only caveat is, the purpose that he asked for before I was involved was, to help him with his legal defense and his living expenses. Because I’ll tell you right now, he has spent some of that money on living expenses.
 
  • #797
That guy in white t-shirt standing between cars doesn't even look like Zimmerman.

We don't even know if it is from that night. It could be more media embellishment. lol
 
  • #798
We don't even know if it is from that night. It could be more media embellishment. lol

It could be the neighbor who took the photograph. The reason it is so interesting though is because of the witness who described someone in a white-T-shirt being on top at one point. It just makes you say "hmmmmm."

Anyways, I hope the SA was able to get the dash cams from that night! Anyone know how long they legally have to keep them?
 
  • #799
I can't imagine why they would use police footage of another crime scene related to this story though. I believe 100% that it is Zimmerman in handcuffs in a white shirt.



~jmo~

And I believe its 100 % not Zimmerman and looks nothing like him. And there are no handcuffs.
 
  • #800
That may be a picture that was just provided to JVS for the program. He's certainly not leaning up against a police car and it does not appear he is in cuffs, plus his hair has grown out a little. He's not in custody because he has a diamond earing in his ear. jmo

Are you referring to the pic in a white shirt where it looks like he's in a house with other people?

That's not the one that people are referring to, I thought that was it at first too, keep watching, there are police flashing lights and it quickly shows someone leaning against the car with a white shirt on, then they show his high school grad pic.

I really can't tell for sure if it's him though.

JMHO
 
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