17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[Desdemona]

I have never seen any of those stories.

The one I found just now by searching is in print; I cannot link it b/c it is not MSM. It states (perhaps incorrectly?) that "John" told the Fox reporter Keith Landry that he was outside when he saw the scuffle, and went inside to call 911. I believe I also heard it said on one of the videos linked here within the past 24 hours, but cannot recall which one.

Too tired right now to search any further, but regardless, I have not seen a quote from "John" himself stating clearly that he was outside, and was not arguing that he was. I have no idea. But I also would not agree that it is likely he was standing inside behind his screen, since we really don't know. The patios are small; they are not enclosed. JMO

 

[Karmady]

This issue is covered by a rule of the Florida Bar, not Florida law. Here is the appropriate rule:


http://www.floridabar.org/divexe/rrtfb.nsf/FV/D9F2CB6782C1A3A585257171006BBE07


The rule only applies to "parties to the action". While I'm sure Beach is correct that relatives of a crime victim might be extended this courtesy, they are not technically "parties to the action". IANAL.

ETA but I agree with you about the non-apology-apology. It's a sideshow at best.

Without looking at the rule (no offense, I'm just getting ready to hit the hay and I do appreciate the link and will look tomorrow ) I can say this. Given the adversarial nature of their relationship and the high media profile, if I were O'Mara, I would absolutely 1000% not be communicating directly with the Martins. No doubt about it in my mind, regardless of whether the ethics rule technically applies or not. There is also no doubt in my mind that if O'Mara had done so, it would have brought an absolute $%*$storm down on his head!

 

[JBean]

OooWee.....dangerous thing to give me.....:floorlaugh:

I think it would only be dangerous if I told you how to delete OTHER people's posts.
Kids-don't try this at home.

 

[katydid23]

This is a quote from TMs mom after GZ was arrested.

Asked what she would like to ask to Zimmerman, Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said on The Today Show that she wants an apology from him. "I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion about what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."

GZ responded to what SF was asking for. I think that was respectful. Going to grab link.

Interesting. GZ answered those exact questions, so imo, he must have heard this statement by her.

And then, when GZ says he wants to answer those questions, his attorney decides it would be best to ask her attorney if it would be advisable for them to do that, as she had requested. But his calls are not answered.

 

[vlpate]

This is a quote from TMs mom after GZ was arrested.

Asked what she would like to ask to Zimmerman, Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said on The Today Show that she wants an apology from him. "I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion about what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."

GZ responded to what SF was asking for. I think that was respectful. Going to grab link.

I posted the link earlier - I'll see if I can find it.

 

[vlpate]

This is a quote from TMs mom after GZ was arrested.

Asked what she would like to ask to Zimmerman, Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said on The Today Show that she wants an apology from him. "I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion about what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."

GZ responded to what SF was asking for. I think that was respectful. Going to grab link.

I posted the link earlier - I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: "Asked what she would say to Zimmerman if she got the chance, Sybrina Fulton said she wanted an apology."

http://www.newser.com/story/143949/t...-accident.html

 

[beach]

Perhaps you don't understand all the hoopla over it since you've never been in their position, thankfully.

People in their position desperately want the person responsible for their child's death to be sorry. Unfortunately that rarely, if ever, happens. To receive an apology that is hollow, self serving and insincere is a major slap in the face and does nothing but rub salt into an already gaping wound.

That the perpetrator feels the need to assuage his own guilt or conscience is of no consequence to the parents and to use the parent to do so is purely selfish.

I wouldn't be so quick to diminish the additional pain this has caused the parents.

This is just my experienced opinion.

No, thank God I have never experienced having one of my children murdered. I can't even fathom it. I do understand exactly what you are saying. :hug:


Trayvon should have never died that night. For me, there is absolutely no question about that. And I'll agree that GZ could have expressed himself more eloquently. However, I just can't jump to the assumption that GZ isn't sincerely sorry for his actions that led to Trayvon's death. And not just because of the trouble he is facing now... I imagine he truly regrets that a 17 yr. old kid died and he was responsible for it.


I certainly respect that I can't possibly view it the same way a parent who has experienced such horror does. That is just how I see it.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I dunno. Frankly, I'm confused about all the hoopla over it.

At one point I personally heard Trayvon's mother say she wanted to hear an apology. (it was a while ago...maybe on a Today show interview? no link handy) Later, I read here that she no longer wanted one??

Who knows....maybe George felt like it was something he wanted or needed to say. Or maybe, like myself, he thought they wanted to hear his condolences.


Trayvon's mom has always seemed to be a very compassionate, calm, reasonable person. I doubt she was as upset as many people here appear to be over it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...says-she-thinks-his-shooting-was-an-accident/


When asked what she would say if she could talk to Zimmerman face to face, Fulton said a person should apologize if they are remorseful......................................................

George did not apologize and showed no remorse. He offered condolences. A big difference.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/23/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-apology

After the hearing, Benjamin Crump, the lawyer for the Martin family, made clear the family's distaste, dismissing the apology as insincere and poorly timed. The family had rejected O'Mara's request for a private meeting before the hearing as "self-serving".

"The apology was somewhat of a surprise because we had told them this was not the appropriate time, but they just disregarded that, and he went and pandered to the court and the media and gave a very insincere apology," Crump told reporters.

 

[Sherbie]

This is a quote from TMs mom after GZ was arrested.

Asked what she would like to ask to Zimmerman, Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said on The Today Show that she wants an apology from him. "I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion about what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."

GZ responded to what SF was asking for. I think that was respectful. Going to grab link.

I recall that. She is such a classy, gracious lady, and I believe she spoke from the heart. It seems like either she or Crump issued some sort of "clarification" very soon after, though? (I'm guessing because Crump was worried it might weaken their position for the victim's own mother to say she believed it to be an accident.)

Unfortunately, I feel there are many with their own agendas (beyond justice) on both sides of this case. I can't wait til we get some real facts to work with so that we (hopefully) can get a clearer picture of what really happened.

 

[Karmady]

For me personally, you are often a voice a reason and your posts draw me away from the raw emotions of this case. That's difficult because I think this case has left most of us raw to the bone. So much pain, no chance at all of a happy ending. TM can't come back. GZs life is ruined, regardless of the outcome. As I've said before, there are no winners here.

So very true. No winners. I'm glad you don't mind my "approach," and more so that it even helps you a little bit sometimes. Good night JC, and thanks for the kind words.

 

[vlpate]

Perhaps you don't understand all the hoopla over it since you've never been in their position, thankfully.

People in their position desperately want the person responsible for their child's death to be sorry. Unfortunately that rarely, if ever, happens. To receive an apology that is hollow, self serving and insincere is a major slap in the face and does nothing but rub salt into an already gaping wound.

That the perpetrator feels the need to assuage his own guilt or conscience is of no consequence to the parents and to use the parents to do so is purely selfish.

I wouldn't be so quick to diminish the additional pain this has caused the parents.

This is just my experienced opinion.

I cannot possibly find a link to this, but if anyone has John Walsh's first book, in it he said something I will never forget, he said it wasn't up to him to forgive whomever killed Adam, it was up to Adam to forgive that person. It's his job to find his killer(s) and bring them to justice.

I agree with Beach here, I think Sybrina is a very gracious woman, and by her own admission, she has a lot of faith in God, so she knows how important it is to forgive. That doesn't mean she gives up on finding justice, she has to because Trayvon cannot. JMO

 

[Desdemona]

The other possibility is that Crump may not have gotten O'Mara's message in time to respond before the hearing. Crump's office is in Tallahassee, over 200 miles away from Sanford. The hearing started at 9 AM, maybe before Crump's office opened. If O'Mara called the office, they may not have been able to get hold of Crump who was staying in Orlando or Sanford before the end of the working day the day before. Then Crump may not have been able to contact O'Mara before the hearing.

Not everything needs to have a nefarious motive even in these heated cases.

IMO, JMO, etc.

I doubt that's the reason; otherwise you'd think Crump would have explained it instead of avoiding responding as to why he failed to return O'Mara's calls. IMO that omission doesn't go over too well. JMO

 

[vlpate]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...says-she-thinks-his-shooting-was-an-accident/


When asked what she would say if she could talk to Zimmerman face to face, Fulton said a person should apologize if they are remorseful......................................................

George did not apologize and showed no remorse. He offered condolences. A big difference.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/23/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-apology

After the hearing, Benjamin Crump, the lawyer for the Martin family, made clear the family's distaste, dismissing the apology as insincere and poorly timed. The family had rejected O'Mara's request for a private meeting before the hearing as "self-serving".

"The apology was somewhat of a surprise because we had told them this was not the appropriate time, but they just disregarded that, and he went and pandered to the court and the media and gave a very insincere apology," Crump told reporters.

Crump has no problem playing fast and loose with the truth, he told Mark O'Mara no such thing.

 

[jaded cat]

Crump has no problem playing fast and loose with the truth, he told Mark O'Mara no such thing.

You know that for a fact? Is there a link that says what MO'M was or wasn't told in any private conversation with Crump? I think we're reaching a little too far and wide to be "sleuthing" the motives of any of the attorneys involved.

 

[suzihawk]

No, thank God I have never experienced having one of my children murdered. I can't even fathom it. I do understand exactly what you are saying. :hug:


Trayvon should have never died that night. For me, there is absolutely no question about that. And I'll agree that GZ could have expressed himself more eloquently. However, I just can't jump to the assumption that GZ isn't sincerely sorry for his actions that led to Trayvon's death. And not just because of the trouble he is facing now... I imagine he truly regrets that a 17 yr. old kid died and he was responsible for it.


I certainly respect that I can't possibly view it the same way a parent who has experienced such horror does. That is just how I see it.

Thank you. I respect your viewpoint.

And yet, the fact that he thought "it would all blow over" doesn't seem to jibe with him being terribly regretful. Rather it seems he thought it just wasn't that big of a deal and didn't understand all the fuss.

JMHO

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver

 

[katydid23]

You know that for a fact? Is there a link that says what MO'M was or wasn't told in any private conversation with Crump? I think we're reaching a little too far and wide to be "sleuthing" the motives of any of the attorneys involved.

Well, in the video linked above, O'Mara says in front of Crump,that he called him a couple of times with no response. Crump does not deny that. So how the heck did Crump tell O'Mara NOT to have his client apologize if in fact, he never answered or returned his calls?

 

[katydid23]

Thank you. I respect your viewpoint.

And yet, the fact that he thought "it would all blow over" doesn't seem to jibe with him being terribly regretful. Rather it seems he thought it just wasn't that big of a deal and didn't understand all the fuss.

JMHO

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver

the ' it will all blow over' quote is not heard coming from GZ himself, is it?

 

[grandmaj]

On the day before the bond hearing this was stated.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/trayvo...uest-for-private-meeting-with-accused/1225872

snip more at link

The parents of Trayvon Martin will not grant a request any time soon to meet with their son's accused killer, their attorney said Thursday.

Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, the parents of the teenager, were informed of the request on the eve of defendant George Zimmerman's bail hearing today.

But now, family attorney Benjamin Crump said at a press conference, is not the time.

 

[jaded cat]

Well, in the video linked above, O'Mara says in front of Crump,that he called him a couple of times with no response. Crump does not deny that. So how the heck did Crump tell O'Mara NOT to have his client apologize if in fact, he never answered or returned his calls?

I won't speculate until we have a definitive time line as to when the calls were placed and under what circumstances. I'm not going to give much credence to a media bite given by someone who's playing this game to his best advantage.

 

[vlpate]

You know that for a fact? Is there a link that says what MO'M was or wasn't told in any private conversation with Crump? I think we're reaching a little too far and wide to be "sleuthing" the motives of any of the attorneys involved.

Yes, I posted it earlier - he didn't talk to O'Mara about the apology so he couldn't have told him not to do it - O'Mara didn't just "disregard" the family's feelings.

BEM: Sorry?

JMO