17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

[LambChop]

Another question, which will explain my comments above, why did Tracy Martin call the Juvenile Justice dept., and the Sheriff's Dept. to see if they'd picked TM up, before calling the non-emergency number? Link
"“I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.

“My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s

Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report."
.

Also.. what made no sense to me, is that Tracy Martin got Tray's g/f to call juvenile justice, when that is where Brandy Greene works?? Why didn't he just call himself??

:moo::moo:[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing that they would not have given him any information and that is why BG called. I think it would have been Mr. Martin's hope that TM might have been picked up walking home instead of his worst fear, that he could be dead. Young black men get stopped all the time by LE. I don't think that is "bombshell breaking news" to anyone here. jmo

 

[zenreaper]

Oh, it was too little way too late. It was not an apology. An apology would have been more on the lines of I'm sorry I shot your son....... GZ avoided any responsibility for the shooting just said he was sorry for their loss. They want him to tell them why he shot their son....they don't want to hear I'm sorry for your loss. Those are empty words from the shooter. jmo

Seeing as how NOTHING could be "enough", I am not sure what you expected him to say. He is NOT sorry he shot TM, because at the time, per GZ, he had no CHOICE. It was him or TM, and he chose him.

As for WHY he shot their son, do you REALLY think the reaction would have been better if he said, "I am sorry I shot you son while he was attacking me..."? And i KNOW that hasn't been proven, but that is HIS claim.

 

[Velouria]

Nothing will EVER make it all better. But you CANNOT, as the Martins did, REJECT an offer to speak with GZ for an apology, then say he wouldn't GIVE an apology, then say the apology he DID give was self serving. You have to pick ONE side and stick with it.

Not hardly. The Martins are under NO obligation to accept ANY statements made by GZ. At no time during his court appearance did he say that he was sorry for his actions; he said he was "sorry for their loss". No acceptance of responsibility whatsoever. That wasn't an apology, that was a Hallmark sympathy card.

 

[vlpate]

Do you have a link that states that as a fact? I thought as of yet, we don't know what happened.

Two eye witnesses, Crump, and Officer Smith, all stated George was wearing red.

One witness, Jon, said the person yelling, and on the bottom, was wearing red.

One witness, the teen walking his dog, said he only saw one person on the ground, and he was wearing red. He probably saw GZ on the ground after being punched by TM. This would hardly indicate, as some have suggested, that GZ was holding onto TM's hoodie to detain him, much less detaining him with a gun. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZs4X90Q&feature=related]Edited Matt Guttman interview[/ame]

NO ONE has ever said the one on the bottom was wearing a gray hoodie.

IMO, that's a pretty good foundation to who was on the losing end of the altercation. JMO
.

 

[Donjeta]

Crump was an eye witness?

 

[MaryAnn]

I have not heard anyone stating that this is GZ's position. Nor is it mine, nor have I seen anyone stating so here, IMO. As has been noted, GZ was answering a question that the victim's grieving mother said she would ask him if she could meet him face to face. JMO

/bbm

I heard him give his apology at the Bond Hearing. It was a sorry excuse for an apology and he mumbled about saying he didn't realize that Trayvon was so young and thought he was GZ's age. What the heck difference does it make how old the person was? He could have been 100 years old and it would still be murder.

 

[LinasK]

Not hardly. The Martins are under NO obligation to accept ANY statements made by GZ. At no time during his court appearance did he say that he was sorry for his actions; he said he was "sorry for their loss". No acceptance of responsibility whatsoever. That wasn't an apology, that was a Hallmark sympathy card.

Bingo! He is taking no responsibility for his actions! That's exactly the sympathy card I sent to my mother when her child molester brother died- it said, "I'm sorry for your loss", nothing about the fact that I was actually glad he was dead!( Of course, I didn't kill him though, he died of natural means)

 

[LambChop]

I disagree, since GZ knew he could have stopped the questioning and obtained an attorney at any point. IMO his immediate and extended voluntary unrepresented cooperation with LE is one of the factors that has me waiting for more information, instead of assuming that GZ is lying about what happened the night TM died. JMO

So you think the charges of 2nd degree murder are just for show?????

 

[deelytful1]

Seeing as how NOTHING could be "enough", I am not sure what you expected him to say. He is NOT sorry he shot TM, because at the time, per GZ, he had no CHOICE. It was him or TM, and he chose him.

As for WHY he shot their son, do you REALLY think the reaction would have been better if he said, "I am sorry I shot you son while he was attacking me..."? And i KNOW that hasn't been proven, but that is HIS claim.

BBM

The first thing you've said that i agree with

 

[suzihawk]

Actually, that is self explainitory. GZ is trying to get up, thus exerting pressure upwards, TM is on top, covering his mouth and nose, pushing downward. TM has the added force of his body weight as well as gravity, which is more than enough to overcome GZ's neck muscles and force his head down.

While he's grabbing for the gun?

 

[MaryAnn]

Two eye witnesses, Crump, and Officer Smith, all stated George was wearing red.

One witness, Jon, said the person yelling, and on the bottom, was wearing red.

One witness, the teen walking his dog, said he only saw one person on the ground, and he was wearing red. He probably saw GZ on the ground after being punched by TM. This would hardly indicate, as some have suggested, that GZ was holding onto TM's hoodie to detain him, much less detaining him with a gun. Edited Matt Guttman interview

NO ONE has ever said the one on the bottom was wearing a gray hoodie.

IMO, that's a pretty good foundation to who was on the losing end of the altercation. JMO
.

Like the hoodie would stay on in an altercation? how could anyone see it in the dark? Now the witnesses have x-ray vision? Even if Trayvon was on top it still doesn't mean that GZ didn't commit murder. Who was carrying the gun?

 

[zenreaper]

Not hardly. The Martins are under NO obligation to accept ANY statements made by GZ. At no time during his court appearance did he say that he was sorry for his actions; he said he was "sorry for their loss". No acceptance of responsibility whatsoever. That wasn't an apology, that was a Hallmark sympathy card.

You are correct, they are under NO obligation to accept one. But by TAKING that stance, that they will NOT accept an apology, they negate their ability to then complain that he did not GIVE one. You CANNOT state, "We will not accpet an apology, but why didn't one come SOONER?" (FTR, not quoting them, quoting what their ACTIONS are saying.

As far as saying sorry for his actions, he did what HE though he had to do to survive, why would he be sorry for that? He is not accepting responsibility for the shooting, because his defense is SELF DEFENSE, and that makes him NOT responsible for the death.

It appears that the only apology some of you will accept is one in which he destroys his claim of self defense and claims he murdered TM intentionally.

 

[Desdemona]

It was true he did not know how old TM was and that he did not know if TM was armed but the "i thought he was a little bit younger than I am" part was a lie unless he lied to the dispatcher when he said late teens.

IMO.

I don't think TM would have looked older when seen close up.
I think most people would be more likely to mistake the age of a tall guy seen from a distance as older.

In his vehicle, observing the suspicious person walking, he estimated "late teens." A few minutes later, on foot, being suddenly confronted with a 6'3" hooded guy in the dark, who allegedly almost immediately began to attack him, I have no problem seeing how GZ's perception of TM's age could have very easily -- instantly -- changed. JMO

In any case, the rules of logic would not require one of GZ's two statements about how old he perceived TM to be as a lie. It is possible they are both true. JMO

IMO possible and likely, since GZ and O'M are both very much aware that the whole world has heard that dispatch call, in which GZ utters the words "late teens." I don't think they would be so stupid as to try and sneak in such a blatant discrepancy with everyone's eyes on that bond hearing. JMO

 

[MaryAnn]

You are correct, they are under NO obligation to accept one. But by TAKING that stance, that they will NOT accept an apology, they negate their ability to then complain that he did not GIVE one. You CANNOT state, "We will not accpet an apology, but why didn't one come SOONER?" (FTR, not quoting them, quoting what their ACTIONS are saying.

As far as saying sorry for his actions, he did what HE though he had to do to survive, why would he be sorry for that? He is not accepting responsibility for the shooting, because his defense is SELF DEFENSE, and that makes him NOT responsible for the death.

It appears that the only apology some of you will accept is one in which he destroys his claim of self defense and claims he murdered TM intentionally.

Your explanation would be ok if GZ was apologizing for not returning a Library Book, we are talking about a dead boy!!!!!

 

[Donjeta]

You are correct, they are under NO obligation to accept one. But by TAKING that stance, that they will NOT accept an apology, they negate their ability to then complain that he did not GIVE one. You CANNOT state, "We will not accpet an apology, but why didn't one come SOONER?" (FTR, not quoting them, quoting what their ACTIONS are saying.

As far as saying sorry for his actions, he did what HE though he had to do to survive, why would he be sorry for that? He is not accepting responsibility for the shooting, because his defense is SELF DEFENSE, and that makes him NOT responsible for the death.

It appears that the only apology some of you will accept is one in which he destroys his claim of self defense and claims he murdered TM intentionally.

I think people who don't want to accept an apology because it was too little too late are completely within their rights to say the apology should have come sooner.

A person could very easily be sorry that he had to shoot someone even if it was self defense.

I know I don't ever want to be in that position and I would be devastated.

 

[Desdemona]

I'm sure that's true, but I'm also sure that the furthest thing from her mind was that her boyfriend was shot dead by some gun toting vigalante looking to make sure "they don't get away again"

...And when she found out the next day that he had been shot dead that night, what did she do then? I don't think we know. But we didn't hear about her until Crump held a press conference to announce she'd been located through phone records, thanks to Tracy's inquiries, which was three weeks later I believe. JMO

 

[zenreaper]

Like the hoodie would stay on in an altercation? how could anyone see it in the dark? Now the witnesses have x-ray vision? Even if Trayvon was on top it still doesn't mean that GZ didn't commit murder. Who was carrying the gun?

<modsnip>.

 

[LambChop]

You are correct, they are under NO obligation to accept one. But by TAKING that stance, that they will NOT accept an apology, they negate their ability to then complain that he did not GIVE one. You CANNOT state, "We will not accpet an apology, but why didn't one come SOONER?" (FTR, not quoting them, quoting what their ACTIONS are saying.

As far as saying sorry for his actions, he did what HE though he had to do to survive, why would he be sorry for that? He is not accepting responsibility for the shooting, because his defense is SELF DEFENSE, and that makes him NOT responsible for the death.

It appears that the only apology some of you will accept is one in which he destroys his claim of self defense and claims he murdered TM intentionally.

Now we hear he felt threatened while he was in the truck. But he got out and against LE directions, he followed. Does not appear he was that worried at the time. GZ should have listened. GZ should have used his better judgment. Obviously even though there was a threat, he felt one and admits it now he still ignored LE and followed TM.....why, why would he do that if he felt threatened. Because, he had a gun and he knew TM was just a teen and there was a good chance TM did not have a gun.

TM's ice tea was in the front pocket of his shirt. What if GZ tried to grab TM and saw the bulge and thought it was a gun and the fight started because GZ was afraid he was about to get shot? If only GZ had listened, TM would still be alive today. jmo

 

[Phoenixfla]

Are you 16? If you're not I don't know how you can even slightly know what a teenager would do in that situation. I don't know if I at that age would have called 911. Now that I'm an old fa*t yes, but at that age probably not. I might mention it to a friend or parent, but doubt I would call 911.

I'm not 16 (I wish), but I can honestly say that when I was that age I would have been able to recognize when someone was in trouble and needed help.

 

[zenreaper]

I think people who don't want to accept an apology because it was too little too late are completely within their rights to say the apology should have come sooner.

A person could very easily be sorry that he had to shoot someone even if it was self defense.

I know I don't ever want to be in that position and I would be devastated.

But GZ TRIED to apologize sooner. They REJECTED the offer. You CANNOT reject an offer of an apology, then complain that the same offer DIDN'T COME SOON ENOUGH. You just can't do it.

i think the whole, "Sorry for your loss" was a very diplomatic compromise. He believed this kid was going to KILL him, how can we expect him to show SYMPATHY about STOPPING that?