17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9

[Wise Old Owl]

There several witnesses on 911 calls that describe them as wrestling. There clearly was a fight of some sort that lasted several minutes at the most based on a timeline.

Yep and the punched / broken nose happened at the onset - according to GZ. So, in all that wrestling and jostling and "who's on top" stuff - the bloody nose and, eventually the bloody gash in teh back of the head would have bled all over both of them - wouldn't ya think?

I just don't see any signs of any fight on GZ - I think GZ got a hold of Trayvon's shirt sleeve and drew the gun - Trayvon was screaming for his life. When Trayvon finally managed to jerk free of the hold on his shirt - GZ yelled "help" once and then pulled the trigger.


But that's JMHO and all that

 

[bessie]

If he shot TM while being underneath him then there would have been blood, and a lot of it on GZ's shirt, but there was none.

There doesn't appear to be blood on his shirt, but the video isn't clear enough to be certain. What is odd, IMO, is that the LEO noted GZ's back was wet and full of grass, and he says GZ's head and nose are bleeding. Yet he does not note that he observed blood on the front of his shirt or jacket. :waitasec:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

I noticed something else in the 911 call where we hear the yelling and the shot -- and certainly I could be mistaken -- it sounds to me like two different voices. One is wailing, and it's heartwrenching to hear. The other, just before the gunshot is heard, clearly cries, "help me". This one I believe is GZ. (Then in the incident report, the LEO states that while GZ was in the back of the police car he overheard GZ state, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.") I question whether yelling "help me" was a clever move on GZ's part to support a self-defense claim knowing that excited utterances can be heard as evidence by a jury. I also question whether a shooter yells "help me" in the instant before he fires his weapon. Just speculating.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wY2ZyCVUfs&feature=autoplay&list=PL81B7E871C2AF27D3&lf=results_main&playnext=2"]Trayvon's Cries for Help Right Before Being killed (Enhanced) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dr.Fessel]

No, could you read it?

You can see it from 10 to 12 seconds then 29 seconds

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5OiLQjUcOU&feature=player_embedded"]George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance video - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Reader]

George Zimmerman's story may not hold up to scrutiny

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...mermans-story-may-not-hold-up-to-scrutiny.php

The account, printed in the Orlando Sentinel and repeated by Oliver in TV and print interviews, including with theGrio, is that Zimmerman had given up following Trayvon after losing sight of him, and was returning to his SUV when the 17-year-old appeared from nowhere and jumped him from behind, then punched him in the face, breaking his nose and dropping him to the ground, and banged his head repeatedly on the pavement. Zimmerman's latest account, via the leaks, is that he and Trayvon struggled for his 9mm semiautomatic handgun, and he the shot the teen once in the chest, killing him.

Now, it has emerged that at least one Sanford police officer may not have believed Zimmerman's story: the lead homicide investigator Chris Serino, who was reportedly overruled on making an arrest by the state attorney, Norman Wolfinger, or his office.

Indeed, there are several potential problems with Zimmerman's account.

She lists 7 problems in link....
-------

Zimmermans account examined

http://www.showme.com/sh/?h=5ABSods

 

[Chris_Texas]

You can see it from 10 to 12 seconds then 29 seconds

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance video - YouTube

Note as well that the police are so unconcerned about blood that they are not even wearing gloves.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

There doesn't appear to be blood on his shirt, but the video isn't clear enough to be certain. What is odd, IMO, is that the LEO noted GZ's back was wet and full of grass, and he says GZ's head and nose are bleeding. Yet he does not note that he observed blood on the front of his shirt or jacket. :waitasec:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

I noticed something else in the 911 call where we hear the yelling and the shot -- and certainly I could be mistaken -- it sounds to me like two different voices. One is wailing, and it's heartwrenching to hear. The other, just before the gunshot is heard, clearly cries, "help me". This one I believe is GZ. (Then in the incident report, the LEO states that while GZ was in the back of the police car he overheard GZ state, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.") I question whether yelling "help me" was a clever move on GZ's part to support a self-defense claim knowing that excited utterances can be heard as evidence by a jury. I also question whether a shooter yells "help me" in the instant before he fires his weapon. Just speculating.

I listened to that tape 30 times last night and walked away with the exact same Idea. It was two people, Martin was doing the terror screaming and Zimmerman said help less then one second before he pulled the trigger.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Yep and the punched / broken nose happened at the onset - according to GZ. So, in all that wrestling and jostling and "who's on top" stuff - the bloody nose and, eventually the bloody gash in teh back of the head would have bled all over both of them - wouldn't ya think?

I just don't see any signs of any fight on GZ - I think GZ got a hold of Trayvon's shirt sleeve and drew the gun - Trayvon was screaming for his life. When Trayvon finally managed to jerk free of the hold on his shirt - GZ yelled "help" once and then pulled the trigger.


But that's JMHO and all that

The audio seems to support this in my opinion.

 

[m00c0w]

You can see it from 10 to 12 seconds then 29 seconds

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance video - YouTube

You mean the wrinkle? :waitasec:

 

[HiHater]

Note as well that the police are so unconcerned about blood that they are not even wearing gloves.

One officer touches the jacket, then wipes his hand on his own pants. Surely he wouldn't contaminate himself with blood like that? ewww

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You mean the wrinkle? :waitasec:

I think it is white lettering but you might be right, it is so high up. Is that what he was asking the cop to do pull down his shirt maybe?

 

[HiHater]

Sanford, Fla – March 28, 2012 -- The City of Sanford kindly requests that members of the media refrain from approaching, phoning or emailing city employees when they are in their roles as private citizens. It has come to light that there have been a few incidents where city staff were followed and approached at their home or in settings outside of working hours. Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release23.pdf

So following and approaching IS STALKING. That's exactly what George Zimmerman did...hmmm

 

[LolaMoon08]

One officer touches the jacket, then wipes his hand on his own pants. Surely he wouldn't contaminate himself with blood like that? ewww

According to LE reports, his jacket was wet and dirty.

I just watched the video again and that cop that looks at his head, I can read his body language, and imo, this cop is saying "what's the big deal?" And even puts his hands in his pockets, like ???

ETA: I am not an expert on body language (paging Lillian Glass who is a member here). It is only my opinion.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release23.pdf

So following and approaching IS STALKING. That's exactly what George Zimmerman did...hmmm

Sanford, Fla – March 28, 2012 -- The City of Sanford kindly requests that members of the media refrain from approaching, phoning or emailing city employees when they are in their roles as private citizens. It has come to light that there have been a few incidents where city staff were followed and approached at their home or in settings outside of working hours. Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking.





:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: I love this City PR department.

 

[Chris_Texas]

One officer touches the jacket, then wipes his hand on his own pants. Surely he wouldn't contaminate himself with blood like that? ewww

Better than leaving it on your skin, but there was something there obviously -- blood, water from the lawn, something.

My point though is that police, who take things like blood very seriously, were so unconcerned about it in this case that they didn't even bother to wear their gloves. From this I can only conclude that these were either complete rookies, complete idiots, or they knew there wasn't any blood to be concerned about.

To be honest, I believe this absense of gloves by the police is perhaps the single most compelling piece of visual evidence I have seen this far.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Better than leaving it on your skin, but there was something there obviously -- blood, water from the lawn, something.

My point though is that police, who take things like blood very seriously, were so unconcerned about it in this case that they didn't even bother to wear their gloves. From this I can only conclude that these were either complete rookies, complete idiots, or they knew there wasn't any blood to be concerned about.

To be honest, I believe this absense of gloves by the police is perhaps the single most compelling piece of visual evidence I have seen this far.

If Zimmerman was still bleeding from the wound on his head, EMS (EMT in Sanford?) would have bandaged it up as to not put LE in danger.

ETA: If Zimmerman was bleeding so badly... EMS would have bandaged him up.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://justiceforgeorge.com/Home_Page.php

Frank Taaffe (sp) is not the friend GZ needs right now!!! IMO

It is great Frank is getting his testimony down on paper for the trial when the SA ask him just what Zimmerman told him. LOL

 

[ThoughtFox]

Fox Orlando Interview with Robert Zimmerman, George's father
"It's my understanding that Trayvon Martin got on top of him and just started beating him," the 64-year-old Robert Zimmerman said.
He said he felt his son has been portrayed in the wrong way. He also said he and his family have received death threats and asked that we not show his face on camera.

*snip*

Robert said Trayvon, "continued to beat George, and at some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did."
When asked about the screams for help which were heard on a 911 call, Robert replied, "All of our family, everyone who knows George, knows absolutely that is George screaming. There's no doubt in anyone's mind."


CBS News: Video Shows Zimmerman Without Blood/Bruises

AP Story: Video Shows Handcuffed Shooter
Sanford police Sgt. David Morgenstern on Wednesday confirmed that the video being shown by ABC News is of Zimmerman. The 28-year-old's head and face are visible throughout.
. . . A lawyer for Martin's family says the video clearly shows that Zimmerman's nose wasn't broken and he had no noticeable blood on his head and face.

 

[Inabsentia]

I can see comparisons right off in my book- both are cold blooded killers, both think they are above the law, and both have fathers who were judges!

The Sanford kid who was videotaped beating the black homeless guy, Collinson I think his name was, and who wasn't arrested for weeks until there was a huge public outcry and then got a wrist slap, had a judge for a grandfather. Holy run on sentence, Batman! Too tired to fix it. Sorry.

 

[octobermoon]

Sanford, Fla – March 28, 2012 -- The City of Sanford kindly requests that members of the media refrain from approaching, phoning or emailing city employees when they are in their roles as private citizens. It has come to light that there have been a few incidents where city staff were followed and approached at their home or in settings outside of working hours. Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking.





:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: I love this City PR department.

well, knock me over with a feather

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Sanford, Fla – March 28, 2012 -- The City of Sanford kindly requests that members of the media refrain from approaching, phoning or emailing city employees when they are in their roles as private citizens. It has come to light that there have been a few incidents where city staff were followed and approached at their home or in settings outside of working hours. Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking.





:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: I love this City PR department.

an arrest for stalking? Really?

I. Have. No. Words.




JMHO