2 hour live Justice with Judge Jeanine 6/18 on ICA case

[katydid23]

"The answer is simple...she was never missing." Baez

Geragos= [Judge J asks why ICA waited 3 yrs if it was an accident]
MG says she 'had to' because the SA would probably not believe her and would keep her up on murder charges. [ huh?]

Mark Fuhrman says NOT if she had told them where the body was. She could have had the tests done to show drowning as cause of death and she would have been out already.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder if that finally pushed her over the edge, that and not being able to have Caylee sleep over at Tony's like she did with R. Morales? Actually I think she was planning on taking out the entire family, except Lee. That is why she was looking up household weapons, maybe she was going to make one and kill her parents with it saying it was self defense the only thing she could grab.... Maybe I am way off, hard to think like an evil person...

I think so too. I think the computer searches were for her stupid plan to take out her parents. The chloroform was meant for them. I think she was planning it to look like a home invasion or murder/ suicide.

I also believe she tried it out on Caylee first, but she made it incorrectly and it killed the child. imoo

 

[whittymom4]

it is coming on again right now JJ said 2 hours but my dvr says 1 hour. <shrug>

I watched this earlier, it is two hours, Geraldo is not on...at least not in my area.

 

[katydid23]

I just saw that little exchange between Baez and Cindy on the stand again, where he 'interrogates' her about the little shorts.

Baez " In fact, they were size 24 months, and she was actually a 3T, isn't that correct?"

Ooohhh wowww, bombshell.

 

[azwriter]

Judge Pirro just stated the same scenario that I have posted here somewhere on how Caylee died. I believe also that Casey was drugging Caylee with chloroform and putting the duct tape over her mouth so she couldn't wake up and make noise or yell or cry. The last time she did it, it killed Caylee. Tone L. would not allow Caylee to spend the night so Casey felt trapped and wanted Tone more that Caylee. I would call this aggravated child abuse which carries the same penalty as 1st degree murder. I hope she gets it. Its too bad Cindy didn't insist on keeping Caylee and let Casey run on to her friends. If Cindy had taken the child from Casey she would still be alive.

kathyn2, the idea ICA would be regularly taping her daughter's mouth with duct tape each time she used chloroform on her is something I find hard to believe. If this were happening, little Caylee's face would have some type of marks on it from the duct tape when it was removed. A child's skin is so delicate a piece of tape over her mouth would have to leave some kind of residue from the tape and ICA would have to take steps to clean her daughter's face. Perhaps with alochol swabs. Further more I think there would be red or chapped marks on Caylee's face if taping, with duct tape especially, was being done continually.

Of course we don't know if how many times ICA used chloroform on her child, followed by taping, but I would think once would be enough to leave a mark. Duct tape is for broken pipes and on household items, not the soft skin of a child's face.

I also think ICA would have to use tape or some type of restraint for Caylee's hands if the chloroform wore off and Caylee came to. I would think the first thing she would do was try to remove the tape herself.

I look at photos of Caylee taken in the last few months before her death and can not see any red or marks on her face around her chin or mouth.

Of course, you could be correct, it's just that I have difficult seeing this done without some physical type of evidence on Caylee's face.

jmo

 

[Just Jayla]

I don't understand why people have this question. I don't believe the hosts of these or any other TV shows control what is done. Even in Hollywood movies the star of the movie doesn't direct and produce the movie. I know there are exception but they are just that. I have wondered about the distance between the home and the wooded area, we hear it is 3 minutes away we hear it is a 5 minute drive we hear it is 15 doors down..... I was interested to see in real terms, driving from one to the other. What I think is odd is GA calling his lawyer then 911 because a news crew was on Hope Springs.... Even if you believe the BS that was reported via the MSM that they knocked on the door... it is laughable.. who calls 911 because you hear a knock on the door? and your lawyer.. could get expensive IMHO.

Baden and Wecht are both on now spinning...like tops.... MOO

According to LP, the host, HHJPirro, is the one he was riding with and she was driving.

I did drive past their house and to Suburban last July. Difference of course is that I did not stop because I was aware that as of 2009, LE has promised the Anthonys and the HOA that there would be no tolerance for people loitering around their home. They even set up a surveillance camera on the street near their home to make sure it ceased to be a problem.
LP himself knew this, which is why he blamed HHJPirro. I dunno know about MSM, my post was in refernece to what LP said last night on HLN. LP also inferred that GA said there was a restraining order against him...however, you can hear clearly in the 911 call that GA says there is not a restraining order against LP, but he felt he was being harrassed.

ETA-The drive is less than a minute, their home is small and not in good repair these days, the street is very narrow, the remains sight is surreal, and you can see any cars parked there on Suburban from the house on the corner because it is slightly elevated.

ETAA-When I write that their home is small, I am not engaging in snobbery...it is much smaller than it looks on TV.

 

[azscr4mbl3r]

kathyn2, the idea ICA would be regularly taping her daughter's mouth with duct tape each time she used chloroform on her is something I find hard to believe. If this were happening, little Caylee's face would have some type of marks on it from the duct tape when it was removed. A child's skin is so delicate a piece of tape over her mouth would have to leave some kind of residue from the tape and ICA would have to take steps to clean her daughter's face. Perhaps with alochol swabs. Further more I think there would be red or chapped marks on Caylee's face if taping, with duct tape especially, was being done continually.

Of course we don't know if how many times ICA used chloroform on her child, followed by taping, but I would think once would be enough to leave a mark. Duct tape is for broken pipes and on household items, not the soft skin of a child's face.

I also think ICA would have to use tape or some type of restraint for Caylee's hands if the chloroform wore off and Caylee came to. I would think the first thing she would do was try to remove the tape herself.

I look at photos of Caylee taken in the last few months before her death and can not see any red or marks on her face around her chin or mouth.

Of course, you could be correct, it's just that I have difficult seeing this done without some physical type of evidence on Caylee's face.

jmo

Since not most normal people, like those here at WS don't chloroform their children they don't grasp how it works. It is fast acting but not long lasting, It has to be continually administered. I haven't kept snakes for many years ..decades.. but back in the day it was common to use ether or chloroform to knock out the rats or mice to feed snakes so they wouldn't bite the snakes and cause infection while still remaining alive. Some snakes don't like dead food. There are many many snake keepers in FL I don't think anyone has really looked into this but whatever. Ether is also car starter fluid which you can get almost any place walmart autozone home depot does the same thing as chloroform. However she managed to keep her knocked out I don't think matters really or if it went wrong the first time or the 23rd time. If you knock her out and then duct tape her mouth and nose she suffocates/asphyxiates quietly dies in sleep basically. People think... I believe... she would pull the tape off but you die before you ever wake up from no oxygen because you have no way to breath with the tape over your mouth and nose.

 

[Just Jayla]

Since not most normal people, like those here at WS don't chloroform their children they don't grasp how it works. It is fast acting but not long lasting, It has to be continually administered. I haven't kept snakes for many years ..decades.. but back in the day it was common to use ether or chloroform to knock out the rats or mice to feed snakes so they wouldn't bite the snakes and cause infection while still remaining alive. Some snakes don't like dead food. There are many many snake keepers in FL I don't think anyone has really looked into this but whatever. Ether is also car starter fluid which you can get almost any place walmart autozone home depot does the same thing as chloroform. However she managed to keep her knocked out I don't think matters really or if it went wrong the first time or the 23rd time. If you knock her out and then duct tape her mouth and nose she suffocates/asphyxiates quietly dies in sleep basically. People think... I believe... she would pull the tape off but you die before you ever wake up from no oxygen because you have no way to breath with the tape over your mouth and nose.

Ah, a fellow herpephile! I tried frozen and my boa scoffed. I tend to agree with you as far as chloroform being the cause of death, seems it would take a barrel full to cause death according to the 'net. I have always thought it was the tape.

 

[MsFacetious]

He's been saying it for at least a year, so I think if there was any validity (since he says it on every show he is on) that somebody would have found out about it. It does make both sides look bad.

Yes, however... they also had the phone records for 2 years before they pulled Vasco Thompson out of their... hat.

So it's possible that Jose might hear LP say it THIS time and think "Hey, we have nothing to lose, let's go with that..."

Here is one of those strange things that happen. Listen to what he says starting about the 4:50 mark then look at the date of the interview at the top.

YouTube - &#x202a;8/7/08: RAW INTERVIEW: Casey Anthony's Attorney Talks With WFTV On 8/6 Part 2&#x202c;&rlm;

That is just disturbing.

However, I am again amazed by how much more competent Jose sounded back then. What happened? Geesh.

 

[txsvicki]

It sounds like none of these people did anything except discuss the more sensational aspects of the case. Did any of them try to figure out why there wasn't more insect evidence in the trunk, how was it able to be so thoroughly cleaned, how much chloroform was in there, etc. People say they think Casey regularly knocked Caylee out to go party, but don't even know how much chloroform was in there and how it was administered to end up being such a high amount still in the trunk.

Also: kiomarie thinks Casey changed by having so many sex partners in 2 years? Seems like she had almost as many before getting pregnant. We know of at least 2 in a 4 month period, plus there's record of several she dated before Jesse (not that they necessarily slept with her).

 

[Just Jayla]

It sounds like none of these people did anything except discuss the more sensational aspects of the case. Did any of them try to figure out why there wasn't more insect evidence in the trunk, how was it able to be so thoroughly cleaned, how much chloroform was in there, etc. People say they think Casey regularly knocked Caylee out to go party, but don't even know how much chloroform was in there and how it was administered to end up being such a high amount still in the trunk.

Also: kiomarie thinks Casey changed by having so many sex partners in 2 years? Seems like she had almost as many before getting pregnant. We know of at least 2 in a 4 month period, plus there's record of several she dated before Jesse (not that they necessarily slept with her).

Kio said she couldn't keep track of all the guys, IIRC BrittanyS said the same thing about KC's high school years. Let's not kid ourselves, high school girls know when one of their classmates/girlfriends are "easy", word gets around to the other students quickly.

 

[txsvicki]

He gave a great explanation for why the trunk absorbed the odor and smelled so bad

What was the explanation? I'd love to know since it's not even been mentioned during the trial that I know of. I've wondered if the gases of decomp escaped and settled into the plastic man made materials of the vehicle, which then off-gases decomp smell.

 

[dani]

I agree. She makes me want to allow water boarding.

Ya know, it's OK in some states, including Florida, to implement the death penalty, but it's not OK to use any form of a "truth serum". I've read sodium pentathol is not dependable, but the Russian KGB has used something called SP-117 for years.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_drug"]Truth drug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Amobarbital.svg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Amobarbital.svg/220px-Amobarbital.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/fc/Amobarbital.svg/220px-Amobarbital.svg.png[/ame]

"A defector from the biological weapons department 12 of the KGB "illegals" (S) directorate (presently a part of Russian SVR service) claimed that a truth drug codenamed SP-117 was highly effective and has been widely used. According to him, "The 'remedy which loosens the tongue' has no taste, no smell, no colour, and no immediate side effects. And, most important, a person has no recollection of having the 'heart-to-heart talk'" and felt afterwards as if they suddenly fell asleep. Officers of the S directorate used the drug primarily to check the trustworthiness of their own illegal agents who operated overseas, including even heroes of the service, such as Vitaly Yurchenko."

How is it "inhumane" or treading on one's Civil Rights to use such a drug on someone like Casey? Seems to me it might prevent incarcerating or executing an innocent person.

 

[dani]

Godmother?

Didn't Kiomarie say Casey asked her to be Caylee's Godmother? (I think that's who it was.) But she also said Caylee's middle name was after her, too, when we all know Cindy and Casey's middle name is Marie.

Me thinks Casey didn't corner the market on lying.

 

[azscr4mbl3r]

Ah, a fellow herpephile! I tried frozen and my boa scoffed. I tend to agree with you as far as chloroform being the cause of death, seems it would take a barrel full to cause death according to the 'net. I have always thought it was the tape.

I tried to make the point ...maybe not to clearly .... that I don't think finding someway to knock her out wasn't hard to do... Many discount the chloroform but why pick that to delete from the computer or search it to begin with. Inhalation also telling i believe..

The first step is of course accident or intentional and premeditated or not. I am just working with intentional with this.

I think it is interesting that JG said ICA said he loved Caylee more than ICA and that is why she broke off the engagement, and Grandmother said ICA hated CA more the she loved Caylee. Obvious that the center of the universe changed in the the A's household when Caylee was born. The new BF for what ever reason didn't want Caylee around 24/7.. I have heard but have not proof that ICA's friends for the most part didn't have children. So it seems like many issues in her life would be solved if Caylee was not around.

Put her in a room with YM and JA with no camera for 30 minutes and you could have an answer.

 

[Whisperer]

Was it true that Roy Kronk was a Bounty Hunter prior to working for the utility co? He has good instincts. I always thought Caylee was in the yard and then in back of the house at the resovoir area. When LE cleared that area, I was lost as where she could be.

My senses tell me RK either had a hunch or a hunch w/some info overheard by GF. If one profiles ICA, it would be natural to assume Caylee would be close. He may have heard profile or heard her say the child was close and used his common sense.

I see no reason to kill the messenger. He did what LE couldn't do and he stayed persistant. He most likely was looking for Caylee since July 15th.

 

[MsFacetious]

If I lived in that area, I would have been searching the area that Roy Kronk was in. Just as I have searched areas that Josh Powell may have put Susan. Suburban was a very logical place and if I knew it hadn't been searched and there wasn't a plan to search it, I would have been there in a heartbeat.

The difference would have been, that when Mister-I'm-afraid-of-snakes showed up in August, I would have thrown a fit... and gone back to look in the bag myself. There is NO WAY I would have waited four months if I thought there was any chance it was Caylee. I couldn't do it. It would have driven me completely crazy.

However, that location... perfectly logical. Absolutely.

 

[chelle70]

According to LP, the host, HHJPirro, is the one he was riding with and she was driving.

I did drive past their house and to Suburban last July. Difference of course is that I did not stop because I was aware that as of 2009, LE has promised the Anthonys and the HOA that there would be no tolerance for people loitering around their home. They even set up a surveillance camera on the street near their home to make sure it ceased to be a problem.
LP himself knew this, which is why he blamed HHJPirro. I dunno know about MSM, my post was in refernece to what LP said last night on HLN. LP also inferred that GA said there was a restraining order against him...however, you can hear clearly in the 911 call that GA says there is not a restraining order against LP, but he felt he was being harrassed.

ETA-The drive is less than a minute, their home is small and not in good repair these days, the street is very narrow, the remains sight is surreal, and you can see any cars parked there on Suburban from the house on the corner because it is slightly elevated.

ETAA-When I write that their home is small, I am not engaging in snobbery...it is much smaller than it looks on TV.

Yes, its a very typical middle class neighborhood. All homes are at least 20-25 years old. Last time I was there, a little over a year ago, their house desparately needed a pain job. NO snarkiness here---just trying to give a mental picture to folks who haven't been there.

 

[lowens1975]

Yes, however... they also had the phone records for 2 years before they pulled Vasco Thompson out of their... hat.

So it's possible that Jose might hear LP say it THIS time and think "Hey, we have nothing to lose, let's go with that..."



That is just disturbing.

However, I am again amazed by how much more competent Jose sounded back then. What happened? Geesh.

It doesn't take much 'detecting' to pick up the phone and dial a number listed on a phone record. The problem with what they did was that they jumped to the conclusion that VT was 'involved' because of his background and just because he answered the phone. The investigator didn't do much else or he would have discovered that VT didn't have the number until Feb of 09. Instead of the person, he should have gone after the records of the phone number from the provider.

 

[Wishbone]

What was the explanation? I'd love to know since it's not even been mentioned during the trial that I know of. I've wondered if the gases of decomp escaped and settled into the plastic man made materials of the vehicle, which then off-gases decomp smell.

What you said is very similar to what he talked about. It had to do with the plastic porous surfaces in the car being permeated with the odor. We all know how plastic absorbs bad smells. He also went on to explain that in Florida that time of year the trunk of the car in the hot sun would reach 170 degrees in a short time causing the body to decompose very rapidly