2008.11.05 Nancy Grace

[future criminologist]

I posted this in another thread before I realized it was being discussed over here, so sorry for the double post here but - are these attorneys retarded? seriously. they can't say she was taken by kidnappers and still alive AND OD'd and dead. she can't be alive and dead at the same time! so which is it, defense? you gotta stick with a story here. and if you're saying she's dead, then the Anthonys just look like a bunch of a-holes for sticking with the 'alive" statements. either way - I don't see how CA could possibly look sympathetic to a jury. she has no credibility whatsoever and would be a disaster on the stand - does this girl even know how to tell the truth?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Dark shadows under the eyes are not uncommon in a fairskinned child. Allergies alone can cause them. I don't think there is anything there to indicate she had been abused or drugged prior to her disappearance.

 

[Blink34]

Dark shadows under the eyes are not uncommon in a fairskinned child. Allergies alone can cause them. I don't think there is anything there to indicate she had been abused or drugged prior to her disappearance.

Very true, boyblinkette gets them at the height of the season

 

[Anais]

Dark shadows under the eyes are not uncommon in a fairskinned child. Allergies alone can cause them. I don't think there is anything there to indicate she had been abused or drugged prior to her disappearance.

I know this for a fact as my oldest son had them all the time. However when I look at the last video of Caylee and compared side to side with other photos etc. of her IMO she looks more than a tired baby girl with dark shadows. I also notice serious thinning of her hair and a spacey llok about her that goes beyong tired etc. Something is off about her.

I just have this gut feeling about it!

 

[TxLady2]

You're right we don't know, but this DID come from the defense, not the prosecution. Everything, well most everything IS speculation for us at this point, but it is freaking me out because it is SO HORRIFYING and coming from the defense, plus the forensics, I *believe* something like this did happen. Well, I thought it before, but now....

Keep in mind that the defense is not saying this IS what happened... they are only throwing out a possible defense for Casey, to keep the DP off the table. I don't understand why everyone is so emotional over this information, the defense team is just doing what a defense team does... trying to keep Casey from getting the DP. None of us KNOW what happened and probably won't until the trial. IF there IS a trial. For all we know, she could take a plea and get a lesser sentence, and thus, no trial, just sentencing.
And I also want to add... IF Caylee's body is found this weekend, that still may not tell us how she died, because enough time has passed that there won't be much left except bones. A cause of death might not be determined now since there won't be anything to test. I hate to say this, but we may never know exactly what happened to Caylee.

 

[Salem]

Dark shadows under the eyes are not uncommon in a fairskinned child. Allergies alone can cause them. I don't think there is anything there to indicate she had been abused or drugged prior to her disappearance.

Except it appears her hair was falling out. If you compare the video pictures of Caylee at the GGparents on July 15th with earlier pictures, especially those of her doing the dance that is on You Tube, it is pretty clear that her hair was thinning at the temples, at least to me. I think this shows Caylee was being given something for a period of time.

If I knew how to get still shots from the videos, I would post a comparison, however I am just not that talented.

Salem

 

[Salem]

I know this for a fact as my oldest son had them all the time. However when I look at the last video of Caylee and compared side to side with other photos etc. of her IMO she looks more than a tired baby girl with dark shadows. I also notice serious thinning of her hair and a spacey llok about her that goes beyong tired etc. Something is off about her.

I just have this gut feeling about it!

Anais - thank you! You are the first person so far that has also seen this thinning of the hair (at least that I know about). It has bothered me from the beginning.

Salem

 

[countzero]

After tossing most of the night I thought about this question this morning and I haven't read it brought up here yet.

I didn't hear exactly WHO leaked the memo, although it was referred that JB team did it. Doesn't the defendant have to approve what the defense attorney does and publicly disseminates? I know when the state offers a plea deal the attorney presents it to the defendant and the defendant has the final decision to take it or not. The attorney has to do what the defendant wants, giving advice on whether the deal is good or not, the decision is still the defendants.

So wouldn't KC have to approve the new attorney coming in from Miami to create the 30 page document on why KC should not get the DP. Listening to Kobi and NG toss around the facts and Kobi saying the defense made a wrong move leaking this memo, it leads me to know that KC, GA/CA/LA also know the fact that Caylee is deceased and have known since June that KC did it.

TM and his group will find Caylee.

 

[DebC]

Very true, boyblinkette gets them at the height of the season

Don't allergies cause the eyes to swell so they look puffy? Caylee's eyes are quite noticeably sunken in that photo.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Don't allergies cause the eyes to swell so they look puffy? Caylee's eyes are quite noticeably sunken in that photo.

Not neccessarily. The skin is very thin underneath the eyes. The bluish color or the dark shadows are only indicative of a concentration of blood vessels. There doesn't have to be swelling present. It isn't like a bruise at all. Lack of sleep or restless sleep can cause the darkness, too. It is hereditary, by the way. My grandmother had the same problem along with every blonde in my family. (Concealer is our friend.)

As far as the thinning of Caylee's hair around the temples, there could be various reasons for it and none of it sinister. Some children literally rub or pull their hair in their sleep causing the same affect. I don't see anything which strikes me as unhealthy about Caylee in any of her photos. She looks to be a normal and very healthy child for her age in size and weight.

 

[justbeachy]

I'd like to see a photo comparison of the thinning hair issue. We have a pool and my kids are in it constantly. Caylee swam a lot, right? They have a chlorine pool, I believe...they'd have to...it's above ground. I think it can only be chlorine. Chlorine is very damaging to hair (which is why we got a salt system for our pool) so I wonder if she has damage to her hair from that. It dries it out and can cause a lot of breakage (could be perceived as thinning). I'd have to see the photos for myself to get an idea of what we are talking about, though.

As for the dark circles, my son has these SO bad. The doctors insist it is his allergies that causes them. They are called "shiners" according to the pediatrician. I sometimes forget how noticeable it is until I see a photo of him. They can make his eyes look sunken due to the dark shadowing. My daughter also had them when she was young, but it is getting better as she gets older.

 

[impatientredhead]

After tossing most of the night I thought about this question this morning and I haven't read it brought up here yet.

I didn't hear exactly WHO leaked the memo, although it was referred that JB team did it. Doesn't the defendant have to approve what the defense attorney does and publicly disseminates? I know when the state offers a plea deal the attorney presents it to the defendant and the defendant has the final decision to take it or not. The attorney has to do what the defendant wants, giving advice on whether the deal is good or not, the decision is still the defendants.

So wouldn't KC have to approve the new attorney coming in from Miami to create the 30 page document on why KC should not get the DP. Listening to Kobi and NG toss around the facts and Kobi saying the defense made a wrong move leaking this memo, it leads me to know that KC, GA/CA/LA also know the fact that Caylee is deceased and have known since June that KC did it.

TM and his group will find Caylee.

The rules are different in a capital case. There are requirements laid out by the ABA that the defense is required to meet regardless of what the client wants. They have to pursue all routes of possible mitigating factors that might keep their client of death row (mental, family history, drug abuse, etc), they are required to find out what plea deals are available to the client... the client does not have to take the deal or agree to the defense plan but the preliminary work MUST be done. I posted a link to the rules somewhere, but can't remember the thread at the moment. But they definitely do not need Casey's approval to file the request to remove the DP from the table. They did not lay out their defense in that document or admit any wrongdoing on her part. Defense would not be doing their job if they didn't follow these steps and would compromise her trial (as well as their standing as a qualified capital defense attorney).

 

[SleuthyMama]

Even IF (HUGE if) Casey did this "unwittingly", which I think they're trying to use in place of "unintentionally" - if it was accidental, etc....even overlooking the fact that she never called 911....where is the pain, the grief, the anguish for the loss of her little girl?????? That alone tells me this was no accident. She wanted to be rid of Caylee. She was freaking JOYFUL that month after Caylee died!

The other thing I wanted to mention in relation to this (I apologize if someone has already stated it) is that one evening on NG, I cannot remember which, in talking about the chloroform searches, it was stated, I think by Natisha Lance, that when the NG producers did their own chloroform search, on almost each page that was returned there were warnings all over the place about keeping the stuff AWAY FROM CHILDREN. So how they think they will get away w/ saying that Casey "accidentally" od'd Caylee is beyond me. The minute you see that those warnings are all over the page is the minute you have to know for sure it was intentional MURDER.

Just MOO, of course.

 

[SleuthyMama]

I guess I look back to how long supposedly KC stole from her family. I don't see anyone putting up with that unless there is a darned good reason. I think that reason was Caylee. I see KC using Caylee as a poker chip to her parents. I think CA knew full well what KC was capable of. I firmly believe the comment by RP in his interview about CA saying KC was a sociopath. GA admitted that he thought something was fishy about her job. IMO they all walked on egg shells around her for one reason..that being Caylee. JMO.

ITA. I know the Anthony's get a lot of grief for their behavior and by no means am I a fan of theirs but I agree with you, Mommy. They allowed so much to happen before, during and after this horrible tragedy all because they were afraid of losing contact with their precious Caylee.

 

[countzero]

The rules are different in a capital case. There are requirements laid out by the ABA that the defense is required to meet regardless of what the client wants. They have to pursue all routes of possible mitigating factors that might keep their client of death row (mental, family history, drug abuse, etc), they are required to find out what plea deals are available to the client... the client does not have to take the deal or agree to the defense plan but the preliminary work MUST be done. I posted a link to the rules somewhere, but can't remember the thread at the moment. But they definitely do not need Casey's approval to file the request to remove the DP from the table. They did not lay out their defense in that document or admit any wrongdoing on her part. Defense would not be doing their job if they didn't follow these steps and would compromise her trial (as well as their standing as a qualified capital defense attorney).

Thanxs for the explanation. There are simply too many threads overlapping at times that it is confusing what info is in what thread. You have answered my question . :clap:

Sometimes NG is great at getting her guests to explain the "rules" and other times she forgets we lay people don't know the "rules" and she just goes into full legal mode. Thankfully, we have many here, like you, that can explain it clearly.

 

[LI_Mom]

I guess I look back to how long supposedly KC stole from her family. I don't see anyone putting up with that unless there is a darned good reason. I think that reason was Caylee. I see KC using Caylee as a poker chip to her parents. I think CA knew full well what KC was capable of. I firmly believe the comment by RP in his interview about CA saying KC was a sociopath. GA admitted that he thought something was fishy about her job. IMO they all walked on egg shells around her for one reason..that being Caylee. JMO.

ITA.

Thus the feelings of guilt they all must feel for NOT taking concrete steps to protect Caylee.

Sadly, they still seem to WISH that if they'll just play along with Casey she'll eventually tell them the truth so they might have some closure.

This family has to stop allowing Casey to hold them all hostage. It's too late for them to save Casey & the sooner they admit that to themselves, the better it will be for everyone... even for Casey.

 

[JADEPRINCESS]

Sigmund Freud: There is NO such thing as an accident, meaning your subconscious deliberately knows what we are doing but won't admit it to our conscious, in an attempt to mask the intent.
If the Defense is even bringing up the "possibility", you know that's the actual scenerio, they are just testing the waters concerning the death penalty.
I want to see Casey executed on Pay-Per-View!
The memo leaked was done so accidentally, on purpose, I suppose, such an insult to our intelligence.

 

[Maat]

There is nothing accidental about giving a child chloroform and putting her in a trunk so that you can play, drink and be with your boyfriend. She had to go out of her way to get the chloroform, she clearly knew the dangers of it because of the web sites she looked up, and she sought no help for Caylee. I hope the prosecutors go for the death penalty.

 

[minazoe]

shes a sneaky scurvey spider.

to ever suggest that chloroforming your child is a gentle attempt at sedation is absurd.
to suggest that a 2 year old could be safley chloroformed , yet die accidentally is ridiculous.

to suggest that Casey somehow accomplished this without malice is just plain buffoonery.

 

[passionflower]

IMO, defense KNOWS that they canNOT win this one!
Little Caylee didNOT climb in the trunk of car and OD by herself.........
Cold hearted KC did it so she could party! OD KC , an eye for an eye so to speak.
and then all the "A" family covers up for this selfish 'spiteful beach"..........IMO
PRAY they find little Caylee for a Christian burial! not to rot away in a swamp.
BTW, CindyA ..........KC still "mother of the year"?