2008.7.30 - LA & Ex-BF Tony L. wired discussion (Documents 2009.04.06)

[OneLostGrl]

I've always thought George was the more selfish one....not much of a work history, gambling with the family's money, get rich quick scams etc. Admits he didn't think there was a nanny, but never bothered to confront Casey on it etc.

And in his recent interview re the SS Caylee Marie he says he hasn't worked since November, but I note he let his security license expire in October. I don't know what "job" he is referring to working up until November. Which is why I think it's right to say, Casey and George are a lot alike.

Of course she is like her father. She saw that her mother was willing to allow his stealing and lying and not working. Casey knew what her mother would let her get away with before she even started trying to get away with things!

Those with personality disorders have no sense of "self" and often need people to be dependent on them.. so while it may appear they are doing things because they care so much for her family and is willing to do anything for them what she is actually doing is creating forced dependence and learned helplessness. Fixing other peoples problems is how they are able to define who they are... but make no mistake, it is not about anyone but them and their need to feel needed. That is where my perception of Cindy's selfishness comes from.


Men like George seek out women like Cindy (they get a mommy to take care of them forever even if they lie and steal and cheat) and women like Cindy seek out men like George (He is her supply, so long as he is around she gets to play the victim.. martyr.) Yup, Cindy works and George doesn't, George steals money from his wife and lies about it.. but to me, allowing it to continue and excuse it when you have children in your home (that you are supposed to be teaching right from wrong) is much more selfish and far more damaging to the children. Casey learned at a young age how easy it is to lie and manipulate her mother and if her mother was any decent kind of mother she would have put a stop to it so her children did not grow up thinking this is acceptable behavior.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Yes and no, can't make up my mind yet. Did you happen to catch when he said he had a project due but called it a "deal"? Then he corrected himself by saying "not deal but project."

He's a cool dude. Who calls their school projects "deals"? Dealers?

The above took place when TL said he wished he had gotten out of his car at Amscot so he could answer if there was a smell near the Pontiac or not. But he was in a hurry because he had to get back to school . . .

I say "deal" when I can't think of the right word. For instance: "Tonight I am going to my daughter's singing ... deal. Uhh, you know, her singing performance, yea, that's it, performance."

 

[OneLostGrl]

I often wonder what things the A's may have discovered that we'll never hear about. What if a roll of that duct tape used to be in the shed o' compulsive neatness but now has vanished? Am I the only one who isn't confident they'd tell?

I think poor George is the weakest link here, he is quite an idiot and lies horribly. If anyone caves it'll be him, IMO

 

[mitzi]

It's learned behavior.. to evoke attention and sympathy. We stick to what works and apparently this has worked for this family for quite some time.. (Ya'll can call me what ya will for bringing this up- I'm sorry but me and bullsh!t don't play well together) but Cindy's mother uses it too (in her letters to Cindy and with LE). The faking of illnesses is often found in cluster B personality disorders and also rears it's head when the "sufferer" has just been or is about to be caught in a lie and their attempt to rationalize their behaviors or blame others is not going to work. So they play the victim... and some people take it to scary extremes (Munchausen and MBP).

I missed the video where Cindy was discussing with LE that Lee was pretty ill as a child (after they asked her about CASEY's history, not Lee's).. but I'd love to see that one video.



Ya know, people lie for various reasons but again, those with personality disorders lie for reasons we will never understand because they are stunted in their emotional growth. While as children we lie, most children are taught by their parents that it is unacceptable and are given consequences for their behavior. It's how lessons are learned.. we don't learn how to do laundry by mowing the lawn..

I don't think there is much to wonder about in this case with Casey's lying because we SEE how she came to be. As parents, if we are unstable in our moods and engage in inappropriate, inconsistant and impulsive behaviors... if we are self-centered and angry, if we play the victim, blame everyone but ourselves for our problems in life and deny obvious truths.. if we consistantly allow people to walk all over us or steal from us, if we are nasty and mean to our spouse in front of our children, if we show disregard for the law, for truth and trust.. if we are arrogant, hostile, erratic and exploit others for personal gain.. if we are dramatic and attention seeking and overly concerned with what others think of us.. if we are unable to see and accept our role in a conflict- we will end up with a Casey, or someone pretty close to being her.

IMO it's simple to see what "brand" of fibbing Casey is afflicted with, it's quite obviously home grown . Deceit breeds deceit. A psychiatric illness (any DX) is not the cause of pathalogical lying. Look at the family we are dealing with- she has been taught that her behaviors are acceptable, if only because they act in the same manner.

(ETA- when I say "they" and "them"- I am refering to the entire Anthony clan, not just Cindy.)

No snipping here...you are one smart cookie! :blowkiss:

 

[miabellamoure]

It's learned behavior.. to evoke attention and sympathy. We stick to what works and apparently this has worked for this family for quite some time.. (Ya'll can call me what ya will for bringing this up- I'm sorry but me and bullsh!t don't play well together) but Cindy's mother uses it too (in her letters to Cindy and with LE). The faking of illnesses is often found in cluster B personality disorders and also rears it's head when the "sufferer" has just been or is about to be caught in a lie and their attempt to rationalize their behaviors or blame others is not going to work. So they play the victim... and some people take it to scary extremes (Munchausen and MBP).

I missed the video where Cindy was discussing with LE that Lee was pretty ill as a child (after they asked her about CASEY's history, not Lee's).. but I'd love to see that one video.



Ya know, people lie for various reasons but again, those with personality disorders lie for reasons we will never understand because they are stunted in their emotional growth. While as children we lie, most children are taught by their parents that it is unacceptable and are given consequences for their behavior. It's how lessons are learned.. we don't learn how to do laundry by mowing the lawn..

I don't think there is much to wonder about in this case with Casey's lying because we SEE how she came to be. As parents, if we are unstable in our moods and engage in inappropriate, inconsistant and impulsive behaviors... if we are self-centered and angry, if we play the victim, blame everyone but ourselves for our problems in life and deny obvious truths.. if we consistantly allow people to walk all over us or steal from us, if we are nasty and mean to our spouse in front of our children, if we show disregard for the law, for truth and trust.. if we are arrogant, hostile, erratic and exploit others for personal gain.. if we are dramatic and attention seeking and overly concerned with what others think of us.. if we are unable to see and accept our role in a conflict- we will end up with a Casey, or someone pretty close to being her.

IMO it's simple to see what "brand" of fibbing Casey is afflicted with, it's quite obviously home grown . Deceit breeds deceit. A psychiatric illness (any DX) is not the cause of pathalogical lying. Look at the family we are dealing with- she has been taught that her behaviors are acceptable, if only because they act in the same manner.

(ETA- when I say "they" and "them"- I am refering to the entire Anthony clan, not just Cindy.)

"home grown"...absolutely love your diagnosis!:clap:

 

[miabellamoure]

I think poor George is the weakest link here, he is quite an idiot and lies horribly. If anyone caves it'll be him, IMO

My $$$'s on GA to be the first to break under cross examination...

 

[travelgal]

It's learned behavior.. to evoke attention and sympathy. We stick to what works and apparently this has worked for this family for quite some time.. (Ya'll can call me what ya will for bringing this up- I'm sorry but me and bullsh!t don't play well together) but Cindy's mother uses it too (in her letters to Cindy and with LE). The faking of illnesses is often found in cluster B personality disorders and also rears it's head when the "sufferer" has just been or is about to be caught in a lie and their attempt to rationalize their behaviors or blame others is not going to work. So they play the victim... and some people take it to scary extremes (Munchausen and MBP).

I missed the video where Cindy was discussing with LE that Lee was pretty ill as a child (after they asked her about CASEY's history, not Lee's).. but I'd love to see that one video.



Ya know, people lie for various reasons but again, those with personality disorders lie for reasons we will never understand because they are stunted in their emotional growth. While as children we lie, most children are taught by their parents that it is unacceptable and are given consequences for their behavior. It's how lessons are learned.. we don't learn how to do laundry by mowing the lawn..

I don't think there is much to wonder about in this case with Casey's lying because we SEE how she came to be. As parents, if we are unstable in our moods and engage in inappropriate, inconsistant and impulsive behaviors... if we are self-centered and angry, if we play the victim, blame everyone but ourselves for our problems in life and deny obvious truths.. if we consistantly allow people to walk all over us or steal from us, if we are nasty and mean to our spouse in front of our children, if we show disregard for the law, for truth and trust.. if we are arrogant, hostile, erratic and exploit others for personal gain.. if we are dramatic and attention seeking and overly concerned with what others think of us.. if we are unable to see and accept our role in a conflict- we will end up with a Casey, or someone pretty close to being her.

IMO it's simple to see what "brand" of fibbing Casey is afflicted with, it's quite obviously home grown . Deceit breeds deceit. A psychiatric illness (any DX) is not the cause of pathalogical lying. Look at the family we are dealing with- she has been taught that her behaviors are acceptable, if only because they act in the same manner.

(ETA- when I say "they" and "them"- I am refering to the entire Anthony clan, not just Cindy.)

Hey One Lost Girl - you have such a great way of telling it straight and I so appreciate your insight and analysis of this very complex family. After reading many of your posts I think you have the Anthony's nailed!:gavel:
Thanks so much!

 

[travelgal]

From Merriam-Webster On-Line http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commonalities

commonalities
One entry found.

Main Entry:
com·mon·al·i·ty Listen to the pronunciation of commonality
Pronunciation:
\ˌkä-mə-ˈna-lə-tē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural com·mon·al·i·ties
Etymology:
Middle English communalite commonwealth, alteration of communalte
Date:
1543

1: the common people2 a: possession of common features or attributes : commonness b: a common feature or attribute

Sorry I couldn't resist adding this to your discussion, Magic Cat & friends.

 

[MagicRose99]

I think poor George is the weakest link here, he is quite an idiot and lies horribly. If anyone caves it'll be him, IMO

IMO, GA doesn't lie to the authorities, he lies to his family, the media, the public... but he seems to tell the truth to LE and will be KC's downfall.

 

[carrie]

It seems to me he was really trying to put together the possibilities. He stated that he felt KC was incapable of what they were accusing her of (murder)...so he was trying to follow some other ideas ...like someone else did it or had Caylee, etc. He seems "real" ..like at that time he did not know where Caylee was, but he didn't think KC did it.

ITA--he's seems very sincere to me, in that, since he doesn't think his sister could of done this (sad for him, huh?), he's trying to figure out leads as to what could have happened. I feel bad for him. He can't help it that he has an odd demeanor. JMHO

 

[carrie]

I just finished watching Part 1 (not sure yet where to find any other parts).

What struck me is that LA seems totally genuine in that he wonders where Caylee is!

LA must have been flipping out furious when he discovered that even THIS discussion was recorded because he spent 3/4's of Part 1 complaining about the lack of privacy for him and KC and parents.

No matter that I keep wondering about why he laughs so inappropriately..LA comes across as sincere that he had hopes of finding Caylee.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19105515/index.html

I agree, he's seems very sincere and concerned to me, despite his sometimes odd demeanor. He's trying to help figure out what happened. He doesn't think his sister is guilty of murder, I can totally understand that. Poor guy.

 

[carrie]

i just love how hes trying to put some blame on jesse. what an a@@hole!!!!!!!!!

I don't think he's trying to blame Jessee. I think he's just trying to figure out what happened and doesn't want to exclude any possible avenues. He's no great detective, but he's trying IMO.

 

[carrie]

This stealth taping really does not make Lee look like he's covering for Casey. He looks like he is trying to figure stuff out but 2 +2 does not equal 4 for him yet. While he does not come off as the sharpest tool in the shed, he is at least trying to ask the right questions.
It's funny how at different points he says some extremely unflattering things about Casey, George, and so on. TonE is right; Lee's a TALKER.

I agree with you exactly. He's clueless, but sincerely trying.

 

[carrie]

someone tell me.... are TonE and TonyL the same person? I am confused.

TonE, TonyL, AL, and TL are all the same person. (His first name is actually Anthony, Tony for short.)

 

[carrie]

Personally I don't get the feeling Cindy, George or Lee have much respect for law enforcement except when they need help or special consideration (favors). As for Lee, his strange and near incoherent speech at Caylee's memorial has convinced me that it might be a very good idea if he, along with his parents, sought professional counseling.

Makes one wonder if it has something to do with GA being exLE? I had a room mate whose Dad was a cop and she was of the opinion that LE is very corrupt based on her experience. . . I'm not saying that all families of LE feel that way and I'm sure they don't. Just a thought though.

 

[carrie]

When Lee did his video deposition with John Morgan, I specifically recall him stating something to the effect of I still believe everything my sister tells me to this day.

What THIS wire tapping tells me loud and clear is that Lee outright LIED during that deposition when he made that statement and several others. He openly admits to Tony that Casey has a LONG history, all the way back to middle school, of lying, and he cannot even find a way to justify the lies with any kind of reason-just she lies to lie.

And what THAT tells me is that NOW Lee has an agenda, and that agenda is to save his sorry sister any way that he can.:furious:

(Bolded by me)
But remember that in that same deposition, IIRC, a few lines down he made a statement to the effect that he "has" to believe her.

I wasn't sure what he meant by that but it almost seemed as if he was saying he thought his only hope of finding out what happened was to "believe" her, or act as if he believed her. Thoughts anyone? . . . I guess I should find the link.

 

[The World According]

HI,
I just read your post and was wondering how are these attorneys going to make the big bucks?

Look up the Baez Law Firm on the net and you will find he has more than tripled his business since this case began. He has daily local national and even international press, for free. This put him on the map. This case changes his lifestyle, how much he will charge for cases going forward, etc., this is going to change what he can provide for his children's future, much like even peripheral players in the OJ case profited well in to the future. He would mortgage his home to continue on this case because it is an investment in his future. All of the experts are working for free because the free pres is priceless, literally! They have to stay in the news to maintain their high profile status, then they charge their paying clients big big bucks to have them. It is no mystery, it is a means to an end. When this is over you will see them mentioning this case they worked on front and center on their websites, and even when they are being presented , they will be introduced as "Linda Kenny Baden, reknown expert on the Casey Anthony and Phil Spector Case", as if it is a permanent attachment. Right? I really don't understand all the self righteousness about it, it has been done since the beginning of time, even governments do something now for the eventual payoff with another country. I don't see a lick of difference between them doing it for profit and the childhood friend getting paid for an interview. I guarantee you Leonard, Tim, the people from Kid Finders, Jesse and Amy will all write a book, and like Amber Frye (and Gloria Alred having had literary and media rights in exchange for working pro bono), some of the books will be out the day the trial concludes if not before.

ps: Regarding Lee, remember at the time of his talk with Tony, this was very early on, only two weeks after the baby was reported missing, he was trying to find the truth I believe. Many people laugh when they are nervous, it is very common. I believe as the months went on he realized exactly what did happen and was able to navigate through the lies and he did a far better job than DC! Suddenly he dropped off the radar screen, that was when I think he hit the wall of truth. I don't think he is a bad guy at all, or he wouldn't have been calling Yuri. I think he knows he cannot save his niece, but maybe he can keep his sister from spending her entire life in jail, so he is saying he believes her because he has to. It pains me to say this but I would not be shocked if one of the family members eventually takes their own life before this is over. I could see that G and C seem to have been born again with Christ recently at the memorial, but I was worried about brother because he was in a haze, a different stage of the grieving process than they were. Did anyone notice when mom and pop gave a sweet smile to the singers, he was just with a blank stare and especially non responsive to the ministers words about the baby jumping up and down in heaven right now. I hope he gets the help he needs. I know they can't afford it, but I think they all are going to need serious professional help, and I am not saying that to be glib. I hope the best for them and their extended family, this trial is going to bring out all the dirty laundry and it is going to be brutal on them all.

 

[The World According]

It's learned behavior.. to evoke attention and sympathy. We stick to what works and apparently this has worked for this family for quite some time.. (Ya'll can call me what ya will for bringing this up- I'm sorry but me and bullsh!t don't play well together) but Cindy's mother uses it too (in her letters to Cindy and with LE). The faking of illnesses is often found in cluster B personality disorders and also rears it's head when the "sufferer" has just been or is about to be caught in a lie and their attempt to rationalize their behaviors or blame others is not going to work. So they play the victim... and some people take it to scary extremes (Munchausen and MBP).

I missed the video where Cindy was discussing with LE that Lee was pretty ill as a child (after they asked her about CASEY's history, not Lee's).. but I'd love to see that one video.



Ya know, people lie for various reasons but again, those with personality disorders lie for reasons we will never understand because they are stunted in their emotional growth. While as children we lie, most children are taught by their parents that it is unacceptable and are given consequences for their behavior. It's how lessons are learned.. we don't learn how to do laundry by mowing the lawn..

I don't think there is much to wonder about in this case with Casey's lying because we SEE how she came to be. As parents, if we are unstable in our moods and engage in inappropriate, inconsistant and impulsive behaviors... if we are self-centered and angry, if we play the victim, blame everyone but ourselves for our problems in life and deny obvious truths.. if we consistantly allow people to walk all over us or steal from us, if we are nasty and mean to our spouse in front of our children, if we show disregard for the law, for truth and trust.. if we are arrogant, hostile, erratic and exploit others for personal gain.. if we are dramatic and attention seeking and overly concerned with what others think of us.. if we are unable to see and accept our role in a conflict- we will end up with a Casey, or someone pretty close to being her.

IMO it's simple to see what "brand" of fibbing Casey is afflicted with, it's quite obviously home grown . Deceit breeds deceit. A psychiatric illness (any DX) is not the cause of pathalogical lying. Look at the family we are dealing with- she has been taught that her behaviors are acceptable, if only because they act in the same manner.

(ETA- when I say "they" and "them"- I am refering to the entire Anthony clan, not just Cindy.)

My favorite poem echoes your thoughts:
Children Learn What They Live
By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.


If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.
If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

Copyright © 1972 by Dorothy Law Nolte

 

[GeorgieFayne]

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, but I just checked this out for the first time and did anyone else think it was creepy the way LA was describing the smell in the car? He sounded almost...excited? He's way to into playing detective when the "smell" he is describing is the decomposing body of his 2-year-old niece!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, but I just checked this out for the first time and did anyone else think it was creepy the way LA was describing the smell in the car? He sounded almost...excited? He's way to into playing detective when the "smell" he is describing is the decomposing body of his 2-year-old niece!!

I'm not a psychologist or anything but his responses seem manic (everything is funny). His responses are not compatible with the subject matter for sure. Maybe he's in a persistent state of shock if there is such a thing. Or, he may feel if he doesn't laugh, he may never stop crying. His adrenaline may literally have him in a heightened state. Afterall, the whole scenario is horrific and would be hard to come to grips with imo.