2009.01.09 - Michelle M Interview

[countzero]

Wonder if Michelle and Lee are still on talking terms and if not, will be eventually discover why not?

 

[Searchfortruth]

IIRC, Annie D and at least one more of her friends stated that they did not believe that she was ever really pregnant.

I wonder if Casey tried to tell him she was pregnant, after he broke up with her, in an attempt to get him back ? I wouldn't be surprised if that is the reason she got upset when she saw him at the party, he found out she wasn't pregnant (after she tried to tell him she was) and she didn't want him "talking" around any of her friends. She let Jesse go on thinking he was the father of Caylee, so I put nothing past her.

 

[Searchfortruth]

A little OT, but is there a LE interview with Brandon S. ? I have looked and can't find one.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Very insightful interview. Love Michelle's honesty.

2 things that stood out to me:

1 - The black tank top pictures that were posted AFTER the infamous Fusion purple dress pictures.....and that they were taken in a sports bar with a black guy (same guy that are in some of the Fusion photos?).

Why would KC delete these but not others???

2 - I still strongly believe that Caylee's co-sleeping and separation anxiety was extremely stressful for Casey and could be one of the contributing factors in deciding to kill her daughter.

 

[ButForFortune]

I too believe this was one of the most straight-forward interviews to date. What stood out to me (and I apologize if someone has already mentioned this) is that Michelle indicated that she (and others) were already suspicious that she didn't really have a job. They had noticed she used her own laptop, phone etc., when she was supposedly "working" but everyone just ignored it. That speaks volumes to me! She is the first person to be that blunt about KC.

I don't think KC ever fooled anyone, it was just too much trouble to deal with her, she has always been "different", always been trouble. But no one ever put the "crazy" word on her - I envison people just rolling their eyes, big sighs, thinking "Oh, that KC!" when she pulled her antics. And eventually pulling away for their own self-protection.

Sad that she went through her life thinking she was fooling anyone with her transparent lies creating her huge fantasy world. Think of how many people have mentioned her lies. Does she feel humiliated? Mortified? Embarrassed? NO!! I would give anything to have observed her through the years from childhood on.

 

[metalcrystal]

Very insightful interview. Love Michelle's honesty.

2 things that stood out to me:

1 - The black tank top pictures that were posted AFTER the infamous Fusion purple dress pictures.....and that they were taken in a sports bar with a black guy (same guy that are in some of the Fusion photos?).

Why would KC delete these but not others???

2 - I still strongly believe that Caylee's co-sleeping and separation anxiety was extremely stressful for Casey and could be one of the contributing factors in deciding to kill her daughter.

Now I am not real familiar with Kcs Myspace, cause it was all gone by the time I got interested, BUT, in the very early first days, I googled Casey , and found a web site that had all those Fusian pics, I think the photographers maybe had posted them? I saw them there before I think they were even on these boards, not sure. There was also a website that CA must must have got shut down, that was SCATHING about KC, and had all the worst party pics, and now that I think about it, there were some of her in a black tank top. I better not use the guys name, or his internet name.

 

[azwriter]

This interview, while very telling, makes me sad. I clearly see more of Cindy's strong will to control her daughter's life. I'm not giving Casey a pass, but I do and always have, seen Casey's actions a direct link to her mother being so controlling and expecting so much from Casey. I've always viewed Cindy as continuing to "punish" Casey for having a baby. Caylee must have been a constant reminder to both Cindy and Casey that Casey had "sinned" in Cindy's eyes.
A lot of little kids when they near two years old have problems being away from their moms. This must have driven Cindy crazy with jealousy and self-rightousness.
I still believe Casey's behavior was formed by her mother's hard handedness. Casey must have been desperate to get away from her mother.
This does not excuse what Casey did, but it puts more light on the struggle between the two of them. And in the end, it was little Caylee who paid the price of the dangerous relationship between mom and grandma.
jmo

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Also very interesting to see KC felt like she needed to be institutionalized but, just like with Annie, blew it off the next day when Michelle called to check on her.

 

[2goldfish]

Very insightful interview. Love Michelle's honesty.

2 things that stood out to me:

1 - The black tank top pictures that were posted AFTER the infamous Fusion purple dress pictures.....and that they were taken in a sports bar with a black guy (same guy that are in some of the Fusion photos?).

Why would KC delete these but not others???

2 - I still strongly believe that Caylee's co-sleeping and separation anxiety was extremely stressful for Casey and could be one of the contributing factors in deciding to kill her daughter.

I do see what you mean @ number two but I think if she had been present at all for caylee, caylee would not have been so clingy. I know it sure looks like KC was frequently there, but between her "working", texting, and internetting, I suspect much of caylee's little life was begging her mother for a crumb of attention

IMO KC played supermom in the presence of others and caylee knew that was her one chance for mom to pay attention - and she wasnt about to waste a single second.

 

[countzero]

Also very interesting to see KC felt like she needed to be institutionalized but, just like with Annie, blew it off the next day when Michelle called to check on her.

After having months to digest all this, I am thinking that KC talked about this because she wasn't getting enough "face time" with the people who stroked her ego at the time. Once she said it, apparently Michelle and AD gave her that much needed face time attention and she was off to the next pole. Singing and a-swinging life away.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Very insightful interview. Love Michelle's honesty.

2 things that stood out to me:

1 - The black tank top pictures that were posted AFTER the infamous Fusion purple dress pictures.....and that they were taken in a sports bar with a black guy (same guy that are in some of the Fusion photos?).

Why would KC delete these but not others???

2 - I still strongly believe that Caylee's co-sleeping and separation anxiety was extremely stressful for Casey and could be one of the contributing factors in deciding to kill her daughter.

My bold.

I agree with you. Someone as physically oriented as Casey is would be very conflicted about having a velcro kid. On the one hand she obviously encouraged Caylee to be that way by co-sleeping with her in the first place. Casey is probably one of those people that can't be alone. So Caylee was a convenient warm body to fill the gaps in between boyfriends. Casey may even have been compensating for a perceived lack of physical affection from her own mother. Also, turning Caylee into a velcro kid had the added bonus of asserting Casey's primary position in Caylee's life over Cindy. The problem for Casey is that when she had someone else to fill that need she couldn't just turn Caylee off. Just as she had found satisfaction in Caylee's physical neediness I think Casey could easily quickly switch to feeling extreme annoyance about it.

 

[doogiesgirl]

That was very refreshing. MM sounds like a girl who has a good head on her shoulders. Too bad she doesn't know more as she seems to be a straight shooter. Well we now know that KC didn't bring Caylee to Lee's alot as MM says while she lived with LA she only saw Caylee 3 or 4 times and that LA really isn't a "kid" person. And I believe this girl.

Did anyone else catch the "insurance/cost" thing of commiting yourself for treatment? MM says KC spoke to her about feeling crazy and wanting to seek treatment and KC brought up insurance/the cost of such a thing. MM tells her to not worry about that--if she needs help, get it. Then MM calls KC the next day to check on her. KC says she's feeling ok, not going for help. I KNOW in some other interview (maybe Annie D) that KC says that AFTER talking to CA(about feeling crazy/committing herself) she's decided that she doesn't need treatment. IF this story is true, (b/c like MM I can just as easily imagine KC pulling this for sympathy/attention) and KC was feeling crazy, feeling like she needed help and she talked to CA about it, I wonder if CA told her that her insurance will not cover that and that CA isn't going to pay for it! Or maybe CA says no for appearance's sake, she doesn't want it known that HER daughter needs/wants to be commited! I actually can see either happening. CA feeling overhelmed by everyone's financial needs, the financial hole she's knows they are every day digging deeper, and she, just on the spot reacts and says to KC--"NO, I am not paying for you to go to some mental rehab--I've paid enough because of you!" I have to be honest and say if Ca did react that way, I understand, it is a lonely place.......being the single voice of reality regarding finances in a family. Not saying she shouldn't have taken her seriously, just that I understand if she could only see the cost. But on the other hand if she said "NO" b/c of appearances---that's ..........disgusting.

The part about her having this fantasy life cooked up in her head with BS on base with his baby and her repeating that theme with AL? Oh yeah, I'd say that was going on big time. AL had no way of knowing that KC was a sick girl so his telling her that when it's time for him to start a family, he hopes for only boys....he didn't know that KC never wanted to have Caylee to begin with. And I really believe that KC was all the more infatuated with AL for not wanting Caylee around. Here is a guy she is falling for (in the KC way) who isn't fawning all over Caylee, who wants KC and KC alone.......music to her ears.

I think I will go back and listen to MM's interview again. I hope she knew more that isn't on tape so that she can take the stand at trial---very credible. JMO

 

[countzero]

I am betting that Michelle was one of the few people who knew exactly what and how KC was and is.

Seems like Michelle had the maturity to know KC was a liar, but didn't consider KC's "white lies" to be evil enough to call KC out on them. Everyone knows someone who has a history of telling whopper of white lies. Rarely does the person get called out for telling them. Usually the liar's is ignored or passed over and the conversation shifts.

I believe KC knew Michelle knew she had KC peggled for the person she was.

 

[Baxter]

This interview, while very telling, makes me sad. I clearly see more of Cindy's strong will to control her daughter's life. I'm not giving Casey a pass, but I do and always have, seen Casey's actions a direct link to her mother being so controlling and expecting so much from Casey. I've always viewed Cindy as continuing to "punish" Casey for having a baby. Caylee must have been a constant reminder to both Cindy and Casey that Casey had "sinned" in Cindy's eyes.
A lot of little kids when they near two years old have problems being away from their moms. This must have driven Cindy crazy with jealousy and self-rightousness.
I still believe Casey's behavior was formed by her mother's hard handedness. Casey must have been desperate to get away from her mother.
This does not excuse what Casey did, but it puts more light on the struggle between the two of them. And in the end, it was little Caylee who paid the price of the dangerous relationship between mom and grandma.
jmo

Bolded by me. I think that this only happened when Casey was away from the home. When Casey and Cindy were both home and Cindy left, I am sure Caylee cried for Cindy.

 

[Ripley007]

My bold.

I agree with you. Someone as physically oriented as Casey is would be very conflicted about having a velcro kid. On the one hand she obviously encouraged Caylee to be that way by co-sleeping with her in the first place. Casey is probably one of those people that can't be alone. So Caylee was a convenient warm body to fill the gaps in between boyfriends. Casey may even have been compensating for a perceived lack of physical affection from her own mother. Also, turning Caylee into a velcro kid had the added bonus of asserting Casey's primary position in Caylee's life over Cindy. The problem for Casey is that when she had someone else to fill that need she couldn't just turn Caylee off. Just as she had found satisfaction in Caylee's physical neediness I think Casey could easily quickly switch to feeling extreme annoyance about it.

I have a hard time seeing Caylee as a velcro kid to her mother. We do have testimony from various friends who claim Caylee had anxiety/stress upon separation from KC and testimony from family members as well....yet, those videos KC took when her and Caylee were alone...silent and eerie...
Then the "testimony" about CA & GA being the primary caretakers......after all we've learned, I'm still confussed as to the family dynamics.

 

[Just Jayla]

Bumping-Audio interview is pretty fascinating, there is a lot of stuff here that reinforces what we've come to know about the relationship between KC and CA, and MM does address some items, such as the tank top and timeline/narrative info that is helpful-Like her in depth description of the night Lee went looking for KC.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Where can I find this?

NEVERMIND. FOUND IT.

 

[Chiquita71]

I remember early on hearing that Caylee wouldn't go to sleep unless Casey was there. Did Cindy say that? It wasn't from this interview, I do not think. That Caylee had tantrums, there was a parenting book with the section on tantrums circled or underlined-in Casey's room. IIRC.

That does not surprise me, two years olds have tantrums. I believe if a parent is educated(and loving)enough: this stage can be held to a minimum but such is not the case with Casey as a mother. Reading this thread and the Maria K thread: it is easy to see that Caylee was a neglected child by her mother. So, I bet Caylee wanted her mama all the more. She had real reason to fear she would be left alone.

These are old interviews and I have never read them or these threads before today. What insight into the Anthonys. I read truth in these statements also. Coming around to this information is nothing new(except specifically new to me)yet-it is like a bombshell as it confirms all that has been speculated since I have followed the case for two years.

Annie Dowling also said there was the obvious power play between Casey and Cindy at Caylee's birthday party. Baby Caylee was used and abused by both those women.

Cindy was aware. George was aware. We know by the statement George made at the Vigil...I wonder if we would have gotten custody...? Jesse said that Casey was neglectful and would leave Caylee unattended to be with boys. Michelle and Maria confirm this, boys come first. From Shirley P and Rick and Cindy's co workers that Cindy was actively seeking advice on getting custody from Casey. From Cindy's first 911 call, made in the car with Casey-Cindy states to Casey "we'll do the child thing and you'll never..."

Cindy had threatened Custody. I now agree with sleuthers who say George and Cindy's cover-up and half attempts to support Casey are out of guilt or I will add and speak for myself out of not wanting to be shown as bad parents, grandparents themselves. That they are. IMHO.

Because of the added confirmation of how Casey treated Caylee, neglected her physical being for the attentions of others: I have less issue with believing Casey was drugging her baby. That night when AL woke up to no Caylee, when previously there had been a Caylee-and Casey was still there...I have always thought that was because Casey drugged Caylee and put her in the trunk to sleep. She could not put her in the car where someone could walk by and see her so she put her in the trunk. As I write that I think about how crazy it sounds and how if the child woke up and started crying...and how even selfish Casey wouldn't risk that...

but now I hear Caylee was allowed on a balcony by herself? Obviously, Casey was not worried that a responsible adult would have issue with that or if Caylee were to get hurt there would be questions. So, why not put her in the trunk? Maybe her car was parked somewhere away from others and that time it was only for a short amount of time. It was the middle of the night, so maybe only until Tony went to school, early. If this is true, how much easier it must have been for Casey to do what she did to Caylee when she killed her. In a way Casey had (maybe)been taking "dry runs" for a while. Caylee died from extreme neglect with a final punctuation of rage.

This really did begin before Caylee was born. It would seem Casey became pregnant as a part of her battle with Cindy. It looks as though one of Cindy's moves was to deny that Casey had gotten pregnant, and then to rub it in her face every chance she could get. :sigh:

Early last year I had made it to an interview with IIRC(Matt)who was a roommate of TL at the time he knew Casey. He confirmed that Casey left Caylee alone with them while Tony and Casey were in the bedroom. The young man had asked Casey about Caylee, where she was and Casey had told him at the beach, or was it an amusment park... I do forget exactly, but it was a lie(even if Casey didn't murder Caylee)because Casey knew Caylee was missing. The roommate noticed no upset or worry in Casey. Except for not having her daughter around, there was nothing different about her.

I will go look for myself but sometime(s), often times Websleuthers get to it first. :wink: Are Maria and Michelle on the witness list(s)? Once you understand what a person might have to say, it becomes understandable to you why it is interesting to know who will testify. That has just become obvious to me.

Annie, Jesse, RG, Matt, Maria, Michelle, Cindy's co workers...Amy, Ric, TL, will paint this picture in full color for a jury. Even in pieces it makes you ill to think of what Caylee endured and how she lost her life.

Thank you is not enough for the sleuthers who gave the summaries of these transcripts and thank you to the mods for making documents and media links available. There is no end to the valuable information you can access at Websleuths and it comes from each individual post making up the whole. :thumb:

:websleuther:

 

[Just Jayla]

I remember early on hearing that Caylee wouldn't go to sleep unless Casey was there. Did Cindy say that? It wasn't from this interview, I do not think. That Caylee had tantrums, there was a parenting book with the section on tantrums circled or underlined-in Casey's room. IIRC.

That does not surprise me, two years olds have tantrums. I believe if a parent is educated(and loving)enough: this stage can be held to a minimum but such is not the case with Casey as a mother. Reading this thread and the Maria K thread: it is easy to see that Caylee was a neglected child by her mother. So, I bet Caylee wanted her mama all the more. She had real reason to fear she would be left alone.

These are old interviews and I have never read them or these threads before today. What insight into the Anthonys. I read truth in these statements also. Coming around to this information is nothing new(except specifically new to me)yet-it is like a bombshell as it confirms all that has been speculated since I have followed the case for two years.

Annie Dowling also said there was the obvious power play between Casey and Cindy at Caylee's birthday party. Baby Caylee was used and abused by both those women.

Cindy was aware. George was aware. We know by the statement George made at the Vigil...I wonder if we would have gotten custody...? Jesse said that Casey was neglectful and would leave Caylee unattended to be with boys. Michelle and Maria confirm this, boys come first. From Shirley P and Rick and Cindy's co workers that Cindy was actively seeking advice on getting custody from Casey. From Cindy's first 911 call, made in the car with Casey-Cindy states to Casey "we'll do the child thing and you'll never..."

Cindy had threatened Custody. I now agree with sleuthers who say George and Cindy's cover-up and half attempts to support Casey are out of guilt or I will add and speak for myself out of not wanting to be shown as bad parents, grandparents themselves. That they are. IMHO.

Because of the added confirmation of how Casey treated Caylee, neglected her physical being for the attentions of others: I have less issue with believing Casey was drugging her baby. That night when AL woke up to no Caylee, when previously there had been a Caylee-and Casey was still there...I have always thought that was because Casey drugged Caylee and put her in the trunk to sleep. She could not put her in the car where someone could walk by and see her so she put her in the trunk. As I write that I think about how crazy it sounds and how if the child woke up and started crying...and how even selfish Casey wouldn't risk that...

but now I hear Caylee was allowed on a balcony by herself? Obviously, Casey was not worried that a responsible adult would have issue with that or if Caylee were to get hurt there would be questions. So, why not put her in the trunk? Maybe her car was parked somewhere away from others and that time it was only for a short amount of time. It was the middle of the night, so maybe only until Tony went to school, early. If this is true, how much easier it must have been for Casey to do what she did to Caylee when she killed her. In a way Casey had (maybe)been taking "dry runs" for a while. Caylee died from extreme neglect with a final punctuation of rage.

This really did begin before Caylee was born. It would seem Casey became pregnant as a part of her battle with Cindy. It looks as though one of Cindy's moves was to deny that Casey had gotten pregnant, and then to rub it in her face every chance she could get. :sigh:

Early last year I had made it to an interview with IIRC(Matt)who was a roommate of TL at the time he knew Casey. He confirmed that Casey left Caylee alone with them while Tony and Casey were in the bedroom. The young man had asked Casey about Caylee, where she was and Casey had told him at the beach, or was it an amusment park... I do forget exactly, but it was a lie(even if Casey didn't murder Caylee)because Casey knew Caylee was missing. The roommate noticed no upset or worry in Casey. Except for not having her daughter around, there was nothing different about her.

I will go look for myself but sometime(s), often times Websleuthers get to it first. :wink: Are Maria and Michelle on the witness list(s)? Once you understand what a person might have to say, it becomes understandable to you why it is interesting to know who will testify. That has just become obvious to me.

Annie, Jesse, RG, Matt, Maria, Michelle, Cindy's co workers...Amy, Ric, TL, will paint this picture in full color for a jury. Even in pieces it makes you ill to think of what Caylee endured and how she lost her life.

Thank you is not enough for the sleuthers who gave the summaries of these transcripts and thank you to the mods for making documents and media links available. There is no end to the valuable information you can access at Websleuths and it comes from each individual post making up the whole. :thumb:

:websleuther:

Little gems like your post above are just what I need to reinforce my belief that, if KC cannot be found guilty of 1st degree murder, she surely was more than capable and the evidence can surely point to: death in the commission of aggravated child abuse.
Tape in a chilld's hair and over their mouth is abuse-Neglect is abuse-not getting prenatal care is abuse (perhaps not as intensive if someone absolutely does not have the means to pay for it, but KC could have if she told her family). Chloroforming a child is abuse-it can be presumed that a person/child will die if you tape their mouth and nose and poison them.

 

[strach304]

I definitely agree ~ it does seem like we're finally getting some truth!

Also proves that nobody was buying her lies. They just didn't care or accepted that it was part of who she is.