2009.06.19 Autopsy Report Released

[BondJamesBond]

(1) Assume that fluid leakage does not begin before decomposition. (2) Assume that Casey/other perp was not aware that a corpse will leak fluid from the mouth after decomposition begins. (3) We are told that the tape was placed before decomposition began. (4) If that is the case, it logically follows that the tape was placed before fluid leakage began. (5) If we assume that Casey/other perp was not aware that the body would leak fluid from the mouth after decomposition began, the purpose in placing the tape over the mouth could not have been to prevent the leakage (which hadn't began and which s/he wasn't aware could occur).

I understand/follow your reasoning, HB. I just respectfully disagree w/ you on what the report "implies"...that's all.

 

[sc2714]

They referred to GA as a credible witness in the Bones report.

 

[ziggy]

(1) Assume that fluid leakage does not begin before decomposition. (2) Assume that Casey/other perp was not aware that a corpse will leak fluid from the mouth after decomposition begins. (3) We are told that the tape was placed before decomposition began. (4) If that is the case, it logically follows that the tape was placed before fluid leakage began. (5) If we assume that Casey/other perp was not aware that the body would leak fluid from the mouth after decomposition began, the purpose in placing the tape over the mouth could not have been to prevent the leakage (which hadn't began and which s/he wasn't aware could occur).

Sorry, I disagree. A body does start to decompose, and after a few days the fluids will start to leak out, but the outer skin is still in tact. The leakage could have been noted, the smell getting worse and the pieces of tape put over the nose and mouth to stop those orafices from leaking fluid when the body was lying down.

Decomposition with regard to the tape was only refering to the skin tissue and that was determined because the tape held the mandible in place.

The report doesn't say, "before the slightest stage of decomposition".

You have to take it in the context with which it is written and logically conclude from the REASON it was mentioned, i.e. because the facial bones were not disarticulated or scattered.

 

[marla]

I think statement is way for Dr. G to rule out she died of medical reasons and then was dumped like trash. "NO KNOWN MEDICAL HISTORY" just means there was nothing medically wrong with her, that would lead to her death.

Oh okay, thanks!

 

[karma-girl]

After reading that several pieces of duct tape were placed over mand/max, my mind immediately replaid the jail video of KC clenching her fists in rage!!! I could see her blowing up at Caylee, ragefully ripping the duct tape and forcing it over her mouth...because she was in a rage she did it over and over again! I am sorry for sharing my haunting thoughts, I am so sick over this!!!
I wish they would have found benzos in her system, at least I would find peace that she may not have known that her mother is a monster!!!

 

[beach]

Link provided for anatomy reference http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/mandiblemaxilla.html

you can also like to graphics from that site.

Normal anatomy


Contain primitive embryonic structures from early fetal development to 25 years of age

Divided into alveolar bone (supports teeth) and body, with variable thickness ranging from paper thin overlying roots of cuspid (canines) and bicuspid (premolar) teeth to thick at apex of chin

Mandible: receptor for lower teeth; consists of curved horizontal body and two perpendicular rami
Maxillae: forms upper jaw, boundaries of roof of mouth, floor and lateral wall of nose, floor of orbit; consists of zygomatic, frontal, alveolar and palatine processes
Drawings: teeth and jaws

Mandible: outer surface, inner surface, lower dental arch

Maxilla: outer surface, nasal surface, opened from exterior, hard palate

Embryology: mandible of early fetus

 

[lovelabs]

on Page 3 of those 100 pages linked - it sayas the tape covered the mouth AND NASAL openings.

Wasn't KC a big fan of CSI, she'd know from watching that show about decomp fluids leaking, so maybe she was thinking in advance using the duck tape.:furious:

RIP dear sweet Caylee

 

[JWG]

Gotta love their thoroughness. :thumb:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm curious about the fabric letters. Why were they put into the bag with Caylee?

They were from her shirt but the shirt itself had pretty much rotted and left the letters behind.

 

[Elley Mae]

I would like to know if the duct tape was wrapped around and placed directly over the previous piece, or was it placed in a way to cover more area.

 

[PassTheMotrin]

Was it in the report somewhere about the heart shaped sticker or adhesive that we had heard about? I didn't see it in the report. ?

In Part 1, page 4, it states the duct tape was relleased to the FBI for analysis. I don't know if we'll see the FBI's report or not.

 

[impatientredhead]

(1) Assume that fluid leakage does not begin before decomposition. (2) Assume that Casey/other perp was not aware that a corpse will leak fluid from the mouth after decomposition begins. (3) We are told that the tape was placed before decomposition began. (4) If that is the case, it logically follows that the tape was placed before fluid leakage began. (5) If we assume that Casey/other perp was not aware that the body would leak fluid from the mouth after decomposition began, the purpose in placing the tape over the mouth could not have been to prevent the leakage (which hadn't began and which s/he wasn't aware could occur).

Total agreement. Multiple layers of tape to control leakage would mean she planned to keep the body in the trunk long enough to need to prevent leakage. And the amount of evidence in that bag that ties directly to the Anthony home shows no understanding of forensics at all.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I agree. The maxilla is fixed... the mandible is the moving portion of the jaw. If it were over the nose it would have stated that it covered the ethmoid bone.

Thanks, nursebeeme.

Just trying be objective.

I could also imagine that it did cover the nose and the report still not be explicit about it (e.g. cover the ethmoid bone as you so kindly pointed out). For example, if placed over the lower portion of the nose (e.g. nostrils) with the soft tissue in place...owing to the amount of soft-tissue that makes up the nose structure...by the time decomposition occurred there would be some 'slack' in the tape such that it doesn't cover the ethmoid bone...tape kinda drooping IYKWIM. It seems that it would depends on the exact attachment points, IMHO.

 

[Hell's Belle]

I understand/follow your reasoning, HB. I just respectfully disagree w/ you on what the report "implies"...that's all.

Fair enough. It may not be implying what I have inferred.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

From Tox Report: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801861/detail.html
In summary, volatiles and drugs were not detected in the specimens obtained from the remains of skeletal remains....It also state's. "THESE RESULTS DO NOT RULE-OUT THE DECEDENT'S PRIOR USE AND/OR EXPOSURE TO VOLATILES AND/OR DRUGS.)

Which leads me to believe that maybe nothing was found in the remains, but maybe it was found on the duct tape, insects and puparia? Could Caylee...I don't mean to sound sick....but what if there was vomit or other on that duct tape? I see an open window left in this autopsy report. It clearly states nothing was found in the remains, but we still have not seen the report from the Puparia, insects, duct tape, cloth that was found at the scene and other...

I feel the Puparia will tell allot.

The puparia is a rigid outer shell formed from the larval skin that covers some pupae (as of a dipteran fly)

The puparia of many flies become fixed to a substrate by means of a secretion which accumulates in the lumen of the salivary glands toward the end of the larval period and is expelled immediately before the formation of the puparium is completed. http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/abstract/105/3/442


Toxicological tests on the living tissues of larvae can detect allot, ... Drugs have also been isolated from fly puparia and beetle exuviae

"Snip" A Maggot for the Prosecution http://www.jessicasachs.com/cgi-sys...d-mt/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neal Haskell&blog_id=9

As forensic entomologists struggle to make determining time of death court-proof, recent work has begun to push the science's powers in new directions. At the FBI's National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime in Quantico, Virginia, entomologist Wayne Lord has figured out how to use maggots to help medical examiners detect drugs or poisons in their hosts' bodies. "We've taken the you-are-what-you-eat scenario to its limit," says Lord. Recently he was asked to help determine the cause of death of a nearly skeletonized male body that had been found by hikers in a wooded area of Connecticut. He plucked blowfly larvae from the clothing and body cavities, made a puree of them, and from it detected high levels of cocaine. Combining Lord's results with the victim's case history, the medical examiner concluded that the man had died of an overdose.

In another case, Lord was faced with even less evidence: the mummified remains of a middle-aged woman who had died in her New England home two and a half years earlier. (Her death had gone unnoticed until foreclosure agents entered her house.) Instead of actual maggots or beetles, Lord could collect only empty blowfly pupae and beetle droppings. But even with these scant materials, he was able to detect an antidepressant. The woman's death was ruled a fatal overdose.

 

[impatientredhead]

Adipocere was a word I was not familiar with and it is used several times in the report. Turns out to be very interesting and goes to the environment the body decomposed in......



Adipocere or grave wax or mortuary wax is a water-insoluble material consisting mostly of saturated [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid"]fatty acids[/ame]. It is formed by the slow [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolysis"]hydrolysis[/ame] of fats in decomposing material such as a human [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver"]cadaver[/ame] by action of anaerobic [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria"]bacteria[/ame]. The transformation of fats into adipocere occurs best in the absence of oxygen in cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed cask, and it can occur with both [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embalmed"]embalmed[/ame] and untreated bodies. Corpses of infants and overweight persons are particularly prone to adipocere transformation. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries.[1] An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere.
It is generally believed to have first been discovered by the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France"]Frenchman[/ame] Fourcroy in the 18th century; however, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Thomas_Browne"]Sir Thomas Browne[/ame] describes this substance in his [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse"]discourse[/ame], Hydriotaphia, Urn Burial of 1658:
"In a Hydropicall body ten years buried in a Church-yard, we met with a fat concretion, where the nitre of the Earth, and the salt and lixivious liquor of the body, had coagulated large lumps of fat, into the consistence of the hardest castle-soap: wherof part remaineth with us." In essence, in this process the usual dissolution of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putrefaction"]putrefaction[/ame] is replaced by a permanent firm cast of fatty tissues and even internal organs and face.

 

[JWG]

And they tested a decomposing child.

 

[Cherry Baby]

Jesus Christ Casey never took Caylee to the doctor???? WTF???

I find that really odd. All little ones have immunization lists up the whazoo - I have to produce one for my kid to get into high school, and had to do it prior to kindygarden.

I think Cindy was the doctor, if you know what I mean. Kids get a whole bunch of scrapes and bumps that do need more medical care than a band-aid. I think she was providing this service.

It is possible to go many years without a broken bone though - I'm up to *cough* forty odd years with no breaks.

 

[nursebeeme]

Jesus Christ Casey never took Caylee to the doctor????
WTF???

no medical history means she had no medical diseases, issues, history, etc... not that she never went to the doctor

the duct tape was applied "before decomposition" (other discussion) and kept the mandible in place.... this means that the mandible was "in situ" of where it should have been... in other words if it would have been placed after decomposition the bones would not have been in the same anatomical position because tendons and other connective tissue that normally hold the jaw bones together would be gone or in the process of deteriorating (hope that made sense)

 

[curiositycat]

The presence of chloroform was found in the car and there were searches for chloroform. They found no evidence of it in examination of Caylee.

I am more curious then ever as to what the presence of in the car means????