2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[Gaia713]

Ssh! :silenced: Ya know the :loser: are here reading this!! Hi Guys!!:seeya:

adipocere only occurs in decomp. The fact that it was on paper towels mean that the paper towels came in contact with a dead body.
Period.

 

[Valhall]

I think Richard H has misinterpreted the contents of the FBI report on the chemical analyses done on the car trunk. The report refers to certain chemicals that are suggestive of a decompositional event occurring under deprived oxygen conditions - i.e. in an enclosed environment. There is no mention in that report of chemicals present when a live person is deprived of oxygen as he seems to suggest here:

'when you actually read the analysis from the trunk, it says there's higher levels of a certain compound that is present when a person is dying from suffocation -- which is a lack of oxygen.'

The FBI report says no such thing!

Absolutely correct, Devon. The report speaks of anaerobic decomposition (i.e. decomposition by microbes that live in the absence of oxygen). This means the body was decomposing in an oxygen-deprived environment, not that the body died due to no oxygen.

 

[skygirl]

Interesting that they chose to write it in that manner.

IMHO, it seems plausible for the acetic acid to have been formed by the potential use of acetone as a cleaning agent in the presence of the chlorine/chloroform. I need to do a little research on that one though.

I'm thinking maybe she poured chlorine (obviously from the pool supplies at the A home.) on the stain in the trunk AND then acetone (Kc or Ca could have had some of this in a bathroom cabinet as it is common for womern to have on hand for removing fingernail polish) or vise versa. She might have been just trying anyting to diminish the strong smell/ stain?

 

[Searchfortruth]

Where are all of those other renowned scentists Jose was hanging with at the crime scene ? Dr. Henry L. ? Maybe Jose didn't like their interpretation of the evidence or maybe his check bounced, hard to figure. Kobe must have received a check in the mail recently.

 

[Paintr]

I would love to hear them try to sell this story. They would have better luck coming up with a plausible explanation of how a pigs corpse was in the trunk, resulting in clean up using the paper towels, and a chemical reaction that created the chloroform. No processed piece of meat is going to create grave wax.

If only her text had said she hit a pig, put him in the trunk to rush him to the vet, got distracted by something more important (look, a mirror!), leaving the poor porker to putrify in the pontiac.

Shhhhhh! Don't give them any ideas. They might be on LKL, spouting this in the near future.LOL!

 

[Nore]

JWG, What do you make of the findings of THC and cannibinol on the paper towels? Maybe someone cleaning a pipe or ???

Just wanted to note where I got this, because it is not explicitly pointed out in the report. Reviewing this excerpt from page 6555:

View attachment 4172

The amount of chloroform found in the trunk was measured in the low parts per million range, where as normal human decomposition is low parts per trillion range. One trillion is one million million.

Looking a couple pages later ...

View attachment 4173

... we see that acetic acid was present in the trunk scrapings. While it is possible the presence of acetic acid could be due to the slightly acidic level of the carpet, it is also a byproduct of producing chloroform from chlorine and acetone.

So, as much as I thought "naw...KC is way to stupid and lazy :bang: to produce home-made chloroform", the report is pretty much telling us "Yeah, we think she actually did."

--------------------------
Way back in January or early February I read a report at the Body Farm.It mentioned the chloroform level being extremely high.I am sure of the months because I saw it with Webtv,I recieved my computer the end of Feb..They
also discussed the normal chloroform for decomp but said this was way too high for a child Caylees' age.I dont know how to copy that to post proof but I swear to God I read it.Iwent back to try to find at least the page and post it but I couldn't find it.It was as though they removed it.I mentioned it here but I guess no one read it. It was also stated that if she had been given chloroform it wouldn't keep her "under" long,if given only once it would not show up on future tests.Not their exact words but same message. May kc roast in he77.

 

[Bittiness39]

I would also bet that LE found decomposition all over those gas cans that were in the trunk. There would have to be...in my opinion.

 

[whiteangora]

I think Richard H has misinterpreted the contents of the FBI report on the chemical analyses done on the car trunk. The report refers to certain chemicals that are suggestive of a decompositional event occurring under deprived oxygen conditions - i.e. in an enclosed environment. There is no mention in that report of chemicals present when a live person is deprived of oxygen as he seems to suggest here:

'when you actually read the analysis from the trunk, it says there's higher levels of a certain compound that is present when a person is dying from suffocation -- which is a lack of oxygen.'

The FBI report says no such thing!

I'm just bringing the news to the thread for y'all to sort out.
Richard H's article made it sound very bad for Caylee's last
moments, hope he's wrong on all counts.

 

[brownflower]

What IMO the reports tell

There was a dead body Casey's car trunk
The air quality of the trunk was consistent with that of a decomposing child (based on the air sample of an actual dead child left in a trunk. Not some "junk science" technique).
The level of chloroform in the trunk was higher than normal
The chloroform in the trunk was made from a mixing acetone and chlorine
The smell of death in the trunk did not come from a dead squirrel (based on the air sample of an actual dead squirrel)
The smell of death in the trunk did not come from pizza (based on the air quality sample of dead pizzas)
There was so much chlorine in the trunk some of it leaked out of the trunk into the wheel well
Duct tape was placed tightly on Caylee's mouth

[Feel free to correct me since IDK what the H I'm talking about. ]

In conclusion: Caylee was murdered possibly with a combination of drugging her with chloroform and suffocating her with duct tape. Her dead body was placed in Casey's trunk. (based on the fact that a single strand of Caylee's hair post mortem was retrieved from the trunk of Casey's car).

Who placed Caylee's dead body there? Suspects: Casey, George, Cindy, Lee, Jessie Grund (They all had a key to her car according to Casey)

So we have to figure out who was in possession of the car and Caylee at the estimated time of death?

There is no evidence substantiating that anyone else but Casey was in possession of Caylee and Casey's car on and around the estimated time of death. Casey herself, not ZFG left the car at Amscot. The LE has the video tape to prove it.

Casey herself was the last person seen with Caylee according to her father George.

To believe that the nanny took Caylee and murdered her would mean that she somehow got Casey to put Caylee's dead body in the trunk of her car. The same holds true for the other "suspects"

Not once did Casey ever state that someone other than herself was in possession of her car during that time period.

In addition, if someone else did kill her child and place her dead body in her car trunk why didn't she report it as soon as she discovered the dead body?

So, either Casey killed Caylee and placed her in the car trunk, dumped her body and then dumped the car. Or she was an accomplice to the same.

 

[Mominva]

I'm thinking maybe she poured chlorine (obviously from the pool supplies at the A home.) on the stain in the trunk AND then acetone (Kc or Ca could have had some of this in a bathroom cabinet as it is common for womern to have on hand for removing fingernail polish) or vise versa. She might have been just trying anyting to diminish the strong smell/ stain?

http://www.ehow.com/how_4514985_make-chloroform.html

I found this recipe while researching chloroform. Seems pretty easy and the A's do have a pool. Could this have been made in the lawn sprayers? If this this has been discussed before please disregard.

 

[impatientredhead]

I wonder what this compound is ? This report makes me sick. I was hoping Caylee didn't know what was happening to her, hoping that Casey put her to sleep or something. These are the types of crimes that the DP is meant for, IMO.

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/1024/17794795.pdf
page 23

Carbon Disulfide
Carbon Tetrachloride
Chloroform
Dimethyl Trisulfide
Dimethyl Disulfide

 

[impatientredhead]

Am I hallucinating or didn't the A's say on national tv that the reports that there was hair on duct tape or even duct tape were false? I am having "senior moments" so I am unsure of my memory???

The quote I saw earlier said that the duct tape was not wrapped around her head. Which appears to be true, but it is a technicality at best. "she did not wrap the tape around the child's head, that is ridiculous, she layered several pieces over her mouth and nose and then placed a heart sticker on it"... that is quite the defense.

 

[brownflower]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but, could the chloroform also come from the swimming pool?

Could Casey have ducttaped Caylee's mouth and nose and drowned her in the pool? Then wrapped her in her blanket and triple bagged her?

 

[skygirl]

I would also bet that LE found decomposition all over those gas cans that were in the trunk. There would have to be...in my opinion.

Possibly. Ga did state in his FBI interview that when he approached the trunk on 6/24 he noticed that the gas cans were actually in the blue collapse-able bin....

We do not know if this blue bin has been swabbed. But I recall reading that the gas cans were. I also think I had this same conversation with BJB back in april?

I'll try to find our original back and forth on this if need be.

 

[biggirl]

The quote I saw earlier said that the duct tape was not wrapped around her head. Which appears to be true, but it is a technicality at best. "she did not wrap the tape around the child's head, that is ridiculous, she layered several pieces over her mouth and nose and then placed a heart sticker on it"... that is quite the defense.

Thank you!! I really felt that not wanting the autopsy report released was in part because it contradicted what they had said on tv. Sad sad sad. I pray Caylee did not suffer, I fear she did.

 

[BostonSu]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but, could the chlorine also come from the swimming pool?

Could Casey have ducttaped Caylee's mouth and nose and drowned her in the pool? Then wrapped her in her blanket and triple bagged her?

If she couldn't breathe, she couldn't drown. Even in the pool, it sould be suffocation.

 

[brownflower]

If she couldn't breathe, she couldn't drown. Even in the pool, it sould be suffocation.

OK but, what I'm trying to understand is could the chloroform in air sample of the car have been created from the chlorine in the pool?

 

[Mystic]

What IMO the reports tell

There was a dead body Casey's car trunk
The air quality of the trunk was consistent with that of a decomposing child (based on the air sample of an actual dead child left in a trunk. Not some "junk science" technique).
The level of chlorine in the trunk was higher than normal
The chlorine in the trunk was made from a mixing acetone and chlorine
The smell of death in the trunk did not come from a dead squirrel (based on the air sample of an actual dead squirrel)
The smell of death in the trunk did not come from pizza (based on the air quality sample of dead pizzas)
There was so much chlorine in the trunk some of it leaked out of the trunk into the wheel well
Duct tape was placed tightly on Caylee's mouth

[Feel free to correct me since IDK what the H I'm talking about. ]

In conclusion: Caylee was murdered possibly with a combination of drugging her with chlorine and suffocating her with duct tape. Her dead body was placed in Casey's trunk. (based on the fact that a single strand of Caylee's hair post mortem was retrieved from the trunk of Casey's car).

Who placed Caylee's dead body there? Suspects: Casey, George, Cindy, Lee, Jessie Grund (They all had a key to her car according to Casey)

So we have to figure out who was in possession of the car and Caylee at the estimated time of death?

There is no evidence substantiating that anyone else but Casey was in possession of Caylee and Casey's car on and around the estimated time of death. Casey herself, not ZFG left the car at Amscot. The LE has the video tape to prove it.

Casey herself was the last person seen with Caylee according to her father George.

To believe that the nanny took Caylee and murdered her would mean that she somehow got Casey to put Caylee's dead body in the trunk of her car. The same holds true for the other "suspects"

Not once did Casey ever state that someone other than herself was in possession of her car during that time period.

In addition, if someone else did kill her child and place her dead body in her car trunk why didn't she report it as soon as she discovered the dead body?

So, either Casey killed Caylee and placed her in the car trunk, dumped her body and then dumped the car. Or she was an accomplice to the same.

great post, if I may add from my understanding reading this thread, please correct me if I misunderstood. The papertowels were found to have decomp on them and they were placed in the garbage bag taken from TL's home. That clearly fingers Casey imo. I'm recalling LE's interview with TL asking about the receipt that was found which was TL's roommates purchase. Now if I've understood all the above properly, my question is (if anyone can answer this) is there anyway that the forensic's could find prints? dna? from KC on that paper-towel? I'm clueless about it?

I don't think she dumped the bag of garbage because she probably cleaned up the trunk a bit after dumping the body or one of the times she backed up in the A's driveway. In both cases she was rushing to not be caught at either of those places. And then she forgot it was in the trunk... I doubt she even considered decomp on the paper-towels. By the time the car smelled so bad, she probably thought it would disipate. As it wasn't swift thinking to put TL's trash in her car to begin with.

 

[Bittiness39]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but, could the chlorine also come from the swimming pool?

Could Casey have ducttaped Caylee's mouth and nose and drowned her in the pool? Then wrapped her in her blanket and triple bagged her?

I don't know about all of that...it is entirely possible. Anything is possible. The state may not get the DP because even the ME says homicide by undetermined means. But they will get a conviction. I know that Caylee was swimming with CA in the pool the night before. It seems odd that she would kill Caylee naked though...there are too many weird things (ways the defense can go...). It is possible that she INTENTIONALLY drowned her in the pool. I don't know when. During the afternoon hours, in their zip code that afternoon for about 2 hours it rained nearly an inch. I don't think she would have been in the pool accidentally (or KC left her in the pool and forgot about her). But she could have done as you suggested.

 

[NocturnalLady]

adipocere only occurs in decomp. The fact that it was on paper towels mean that the paper towels came in contact with a dead body.
Period.

Or bits of a dead body that fell off Caylee's remains when she was removed from the trunk or were otherwise left behind.

Adipocere is stubborn stuff. It can survive a long long time.