2009.08.07 Emails between Oak Ridge and OCSO

[Jolynna]

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 3:09 PM
To: Melich, Yuri (OCSO); Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Subject: flies

Mike, forgot to mention something in my last email. I FINALLY got a call back from Dr. Neal Haskell, my entomologist friend, and he said that the ‘fruit flies’ may really be coffin flies and that might be significant. He said that if you still have them to please send them to him at the following address and he will check them out.

Dr. Neal Haskell
425 Kannal Avenue
Rensselaer, Indiana 47978

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.

The same entomologist that examined KC's car trunk's "coffin flies" was written about in the New York Times article.

KC's defense specifically expressed a desire for entomologist reports in the 90 page motion for additional discovery. I think the flies might be the smoking gun to tie Caylee's body to KC's car trunk.

jmo

 

[cyberborg]

No meat products in the trash but there WERE "coffin flies". According to the testimony of Neal Haskell, a forensic entomologist at St. Joseph’s College in Rensselaer, Indlana, "scuttle flies, or “coffin flies,” insects that cannibalize dead bodies after they have undergone initial decomposition". http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/12file-fly.html?_r=1

Exactly!! So ...... even if the trunk decomp stain is inconclusive and the single hair with death band is debatable, we add to that very high levels of chloroform AND maggots AND coffin flies so that adds plausibility to the decomp fluid and hair = dead human body.

We don't know everything that was discussed in these emails but it had the focus and interest of the SA (LDB and LL).

The Defense has an uphill battle to counter everything. AL's strategy is to pick away at it, like seeking sympathy from the public by portraying KC's new found emotions putting public pressure on the SA to drop the DP. Step 1. There are too many steps though, KC is toast.

 

[ClockWatcher]

(Snipped a little) Ah hah! I knew I had not seen you on some of the other threads for a while, JWG-This explains it! You have been down there in the trenches doing the digging again!

lol....I thought he may have been in his basement experimenting with the pool chemicals and nail polish again!

:Banane39:

 

[Just Jayla]

But I thought the area wasn't flooded in June?

I'm not sure, but it could have been wet or muddy, rain is abundant in Florida throughout the year....I suppose the drier winter air may help it get to the state that it was in when Caylee was found....

 

[Just Jayla]

Shoes and/or pants in trunk?

Collapsible bin and boots in trunk, from CA's first accounts, think she changed that later to having found the boots behind the driver's seat.

 

[TakeNote]

do coffin flies only eat human flesh or will they eat animal flesh as well.....

yuck

 

[Just Jayla]

Man! Vass would make an excellent WS'r! He already sounds like one of us.

On a side note, Dr. Vass highlighted one of the more obvious boo boo's in KC's plan-Why did she not take her to a more remote area?

Yes, I know KC is lazy, but per Google Earth, there is a giant swamp approx. 25 mi. east of her house!

I am glad for one that she was so stupid, cause Caylee was able to be found.

 

[Just Jayla]

(Snipped a little) Ah hah! I knew I had not seen you on some of the other threads for a while, JWG-This explains it! You have been down there in the trenches doing the digging again!

lol....I thought he may have been in his basement experimenting with the pool chemicals and nail polish again!

:Banane39:

Oh no! I'm glad he came back, the vapors can be baaad!

 

[kew17]

Excellent work once again JWG! You rock!! :rocker:

 

[Jolynna]

Exactly!! So ...... even if the trunk decomp stain is inconclusive and the single hair with death band is debatable, we add to that very high levels of chloroform AND maggots AND coffin flies so that adds plausibility to the decomp fluid and hair = dead human body.

We don't know everything that was discussed in these emails but it had the focus and interest of the SA (LDB and LL).

The Defense has an uphill battle to counter everything. AL's strategy is to pick away at it, like seeking sympathy from the public by portraying KC's new found emotions putting public pressure on the SA to drop the DP. Step 1. There are too many steps though, KC is toast.

"Coffin flies" cannibalize dead decomposing flesh. They were all over an adipocere-like substance that was on the wadded up paper toweling in the trash.

 

[Intermezzo]

snipped

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:57 PM
To: Vincent, Michael; Melich, Yuri
Subject:

Yuri/Mike, Good news and bad – bad first – our GC/MS is down and I can’t run the last few samples until we fix it so the report will be late – I am REALLY sorry about that. Will try and get it out to you Monday or Tues – I will try and come in this weekend and work on the system. Good news – the LIBS analysis on the carpet sample is showing positive results (inorganic indicators of decomp are present (calcium, magnesium, etc.) – nothing in controls. Finally I was hoping to get your permission to do a chemical extract on the piece of carpet you sent us looking for VFAs. If positive, this will give us odor, inorganic and organic markers for decomp. If we are really, really lucky we might be able to use the data to get a PMI. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D."

BBM
The carpet tested positive for decomp in 1 analysis test? Am I reading this correctly..
What does "nothing in controls" mean? (I think I know but I'm not 100%)

 

[ClockWatcher]

do coffin flies only eat human flesh or will they eat animal flesh as well.....

yuck

Yuck is right! Looks like they eat both.

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/environment/insects/public_health/Humpback+Or+Coffin+Flies.htm


http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/coffin.htm

 

[Jolynna]

do coffin flies only eat human flesh or will they eat animal flesh as well.....

yuck

I think they eat any flesh.

But would anyone really believe KC was driving around with a dead animal in her trunk right around the same time her daughter ummmm...disappeared.

According to the study on the substance on the paper towel: "the fatty acid ratios detected on the paper towels are quite consistent with those identified in human and pig decomposition studies.http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/jazlynsmum1/papertowelanalyis.png

That same report says something on the paper towels was attracting fly pupae (maggots).

jmo



jmo

 

[itsreenw]

i would like to know was this a small amount....perhaps from shoes or pants being thrown into the trunk.....

or could it have come from the body a larger amount from the body being soaked....maybe because the body could have been in one place and then put back into the trunk and moved?

it will be interesting to see if they match this up to the exact spot to where caylee was found

something to add

lets just pretend that this didnt come off of KC pants or shoes etc........could there be any other reason that this would be found in the trunk of the car?

Was it ever determined what she did with the borrowed shovel? Could she have taken the shovel out of the car to dig a hole, then changed her mind? Then put it back in the trunk, transferring the Pinene and Limonene into the car?

 

[Intermezzo]

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
snipped

Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:48 PM
To: Melich, Yuri; Vincent, Michael
Subject: prelim report #2

Gentlemen, please find attached the second preliminary report – we are still waiting on some standards which are on backorder and VFA analyses to complete the report. Please read over the report carefully. I would like to schedule a phone conference with you and (if possible) a prosecutor early next week to determine what else needs to be done assuming this will be used in court (for example – should we be sampling a dead squirrel, are our procedures sufficiently thorough to hold up in court, discuss standards, Daubert issues, etc. etc.). I hope you understand why this has taken so long once you read the report. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D."

BBM
Even the good Doc heard about Casey's squirrel story :liar:,
I guess if a Pizza test was conducted to prove it doesn't smell like decomp maybe a Squirrel test was done as well

 

[john's mom]

Was it ever determined what she did with the borrowed shovel? Could she have taken the shovel out of the car to dig a hole, then changed her mind? Then put it back in the trunk, transferring the Pinene and Limonene into the car?

good point...it could have been too hard to dig a big hole, so she just left her there.

 

[Intermezzo]

Excellent work once again JWG! You rock!! :rocker:

I'll second that and add a :highfive: for your fine work :Banane37: :clap:

 

[Jolynna]

Evidence from KC's trunk pointing to something dead:

1. Decomposition smell
2. the hair
3. "coffin flies"
4. adipocere-like substance on toweling (consistent with human or pig decomposition.
5. The stain

There was NO meat found in the trash. Yet something that smelled ripe was drawing coffin flies. They had burrowed between the crevices of KC's trunk and were all over the substance on the paper toweling. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/jazlynsmum1/papertowelanalyis.png

Casey's shoes or pants could have transferred the plant pollen from where Caylee's body was found to KC's car trunk. Too bad Cindy washed the pants.

 

[cyberborg]

On a side note, Dr. Vass highlighted one of the more obvious boo boo's in KC's plan-Why did she not take her to a more remote area?

Yes, I know KC is lazy, but per Google Earth, there is a giant swamp approx. 25 mi. east of her house!

I am glad for one that she was so stupid, cause Caylee was able to be found.

When this was breaking the A's were talking about the kidnapper taking Caylee up into the mountains. I had thought, oh oh!, if she is dumped a few hundred miles away then what are the chances of ever finding Caylee, before the pings and we knew KC never left Orlando.

I know KC said that Caylee was 'close to home' but this close? I am glad KC is not the brightest . . . or did not care. She wanted Caylee found to send a message to CA.

O/T I think she was so defiant she was feeding off that defiance to retaliate against her family and pushback on everyone LE. The more you seek the truth the more defiant KC becomes and that feeds her big time. I think she ran out of defiance and the gravity of the situ just slapped her in the face.

 

[PassTheMotrin]

Was it ever determined what she did with the borrowed shovel? Could she have taken the shovel out of the car to dig a hole, then changed her mind? Then put it back in the trunk, transferring the Pinene and Limonene into the car?

Digging up and moving a Hibiscus bush, perhaps?