2009.12.11 Motions Hearing #2

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  • #81
1) Why does Strickland hardly ever rule on any motions at the hearings? Any average person can see how laughable and far fetched the motions are (special treatment for one person, come on), but it takes a respected judge a few days to decide? I'm confused..

2) I think it's kind of funny how at the beginning KC was talking/flirting with JB and saying how she was gonna need so many tissues, but saying it in a non serious way like she really didn't think she would. Little did she know how bad JA was gonna lay it on her at the end! I totally think she was not expecting it.

3) While she was talking to JB at the beginning did you notice she muted the mic and then unmuted it when she talked about how she was gonna need to cry to get it out of her system and need tissues. Basically trying to show the public "see I can get upset!"

4) In terms of her head shaking, I almost think it was more of "that's not how it went down." In other words, she knows how her daughter died/how she killed her but it wasn't EXACTLY how JA was explaining it.

Bottom Line: The only times anyone has seen true emotion out of her was when she found out the remains were discovered and today aka times when she's been forced to realize the jig is up. People have been saying those reactions could be that of a wrongly accused mother but a wrongly accused mother wouldn't just show that much emotion on TWO times, but rather during those 31 days, during the police interrogation, her time out from jail, and all previous hearings when Caylee's death/autopsy was mentioned.


1) Maybe he wants to be thorough, to block potential appeals from KC down the line.

2) Agreed

3) Yep, seemed a bit calculated to me, too. That she "forgets" to mute the mic when talking about tissues, but mutes it other times. And she mentioned those tissues 3x in one breath.

4) Exactly what I thought too.
 
  • #82
Where did I see or hear that Cindy passed a note today to Casey? am I going crazy?LOL!!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4550537&postcount=768"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2009.12.11 Discuss Motions hearing. One year to the day Caylee Found #1[/ame]
 
  • #83
  • #84
Watching the clip again of Casey crying while Ashton spoke. Was she blocking her face behind her hand in order to 'hide' her true feelings? (i.e., avoid scrutiny, which is essentially impossible given the high profile case.)
 
  • #85
I too watched the confrontation between Kathi Belich and Andrea Lyon. I just didn't see anything that AL did to Kathi. The area was cramped, and the defense was just trying to get an elevator on either side of the hallway. AL is a large person, has a large bag. She may have and probably aia bumo into Belich, but I nothing intentional or malicious. I think KB was pretty wound up, though. In fact, I was a bit embarrassed befor they ever got inside. Kathi has done some mighty fine work on this case, but today, imo, wasn't quality. Sorry.

I thought everything KB was doing was great until the elbow thing-I really didn't see AL do anything, either, so it seemed like it was time for KB to settle down a little, JB's nastiness really got her going, and he threatened to go to her "Spanish" competition.
How many Spaniards are in Orlando anyway? I mean Puerto Rican and Cuban, yes, but Spanish? JB literally tried to pull a media race card, but his racial sensitivity lacks.
 
  • #86
That's kind of where my thinking has been too. It has been speculated that KC is a sociopath (and stated such by CA) and I am in the middle of reading "The Sociopath Next Door" which does seem to lend credence to the possibility that KC is based on her previous actions, statements, etc

The book is helping me understand the "whys" of this case more, and I finally get the whole "lack of any emotions" thing, so now want to go back and reread chapter to see again the reasoning when sociopaths choose to "create emotions"....
They create emotions when it's of use to them (in a nut shell).
 
  • #87
Watching the clip again of Casey crying while Ashton spoke. Was she blocking her face behind her hand in order to 'hide' her true feelings? (i.e., avoid scrutiny, which is essentially impossible given the high profile case.)
The blocking of her face is a new thing, and at first I thought it was so that noone could see her cry. Now, I think it was to hide her face, while the ugly truths behind Caylee's murder, were being exposed for the whole world to see.
 
  • #88
At one point, JA reminded us all that KC is presumed innocent. A little later he went on to speculate about Caylee and what may have happened. As he was speaking the camera panned to KC, where she was obviously struggling with her emotions. When she said “make him stop” she was visibly upset. She cried, and it looked as if she was close to hyperventilating. There are many who may be of the opinion that this was all staged, and she has no feelings, and can bring tears to her eyes at will. That is not my opinion. My opinion is the tears were real, she was upset at hearing what possibly could have happened to her daughter, and while listening to the heart wrenching words being spoken by JA those emotional reactions are normal. It would seem that here in the court of public opinion that any emotion or reaction by KC about anything, can and will be twisted and turned to fit whatever point about KC one would want to prove. For example, if she did not cry, or become upset, then many would be talking about how cold and calculated she is. If she only cried a little, she would be a heartless killer that could barely shed a tear while hearing about her daughter being duct taped. If she had hyperventilated, and went on a long uncontrollable crying jag, she would be admitting her guilt by uncontrollably crying. She is in an impossible situation. I respect the fact that each of us here in the court of public opinion are allowed our own opinions, I respect all the opinions here, I would ask in return that my opinions would be treated with the same respect. As always moo. JA reminded us all that KC is presumed innocent, at one point.
 
  • #89
JB on JVM right now.
 
  • #90
Yeah, where is LEE? He is suppose to be so PROUD of CMA!!!
He should listen to the states evidence and Ashton today!

The defense and family kept him away so he couldn't say to KC "told ya so" that night when he was trying to convince his sister that getting the police involved was not going to be helpful and just come clean and take them all to Caylee
 
  • #91
  • #92
I think it would be interesting to get an actual count of the number of times a member of the defense team has stated "The State wants to KILL Casey Anthony" since 9:30 am (including hearing and all media interviews since).

I have heard it uttered repeatedly and already a few times in the first 15 minutes of JVM show by Baez (repeated use of State = Kill).

Wonder if this game plan will also backfire on them? Wouldn't you think after repeating it over and over until trial time would create "overkill" (no pun) and the impact of the statement would no longer be shocking to anyone????
 
  • #93
That interview with JB is from November.

You are too quick for color tv. Also, could JVM try harder to get JB to be an invited REPEAT guest? Ughhh...
 
  • #94
That's kind of where my thinking has been too. It has been speculated that KC is a sociopath (and stated such by CA) and I am in the middle of reading "The Sociopath Next Door" which does seem to lend credence to the possibility that KC is based on her previous actions, statements, etc

The book is helping me understand the "whys" of this case more, and I finally get the whole "lack of any emotions" thing, so now want to go back and reread chapter to see again the reasoning when sociopaths choose to "create emotions"....

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)


NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV. Some critics have complained that, in the attempt to rely only on 'objective' criteria, the DSM has broadened the concept to include too many individuals. The APD category includes people who commit illegal, immoral or self-serving acts for a variety of reasons and are not necessarily psychopaths.
 
  • #95
Don't get me wrong - I really like KB. But today I just thought she was over the top and a bit frenzied - especdially after JB rebuffed her so many times in the presser. And was it or was it not KB that let loose the 'F bomb' in front of the court house?

I DO like the way she doesn't give up, and gets her story, but today was, ummmmm. not. Good question, though.

BBM. That's what MAKES a GOOD reporter!
 
  • #96
Every time AL spoke or did anything, like fakely greet the judge and inquire after his health, comfort her client, etc., I could only think about her heart-warming seminar comments. AL tried to respond to Mr. Ashton's comments on her opinion of jurors as if he was only referring to the benign things she'd said in her super boring argument today, but it didn't work and she couldn't push him on it. That must have been really annoying to her. tsk, tsk.

I felt that when AL spoke again, after JA she spoke as if the wind had been taken out of her. Not only did she apologize (so to speak) about her comments on DP jurors, but she was a different person after JA's argument. It was almost as if her tail was between her legs. She looked like she had been punched in the gut. JA was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. I believe he has changed the face of this trial.

BTW, I viewed it again and there is no question in my mind that KC turned on the waterworks after JB whispered to her. If you watch the tape you'll see that when JA started speaking about Caylee's horrific death, she was furious. It looked as if she could barely contain herself. Then JB whispered and all of a sudden the tears started to flow. Gee, my heart bleeds for her.
 
  • #97
The blocking of her face is a new thing, and at first I thought it was so that noone could see her cry. Now, I think it was to hide her face, while the ugly truths behind Caylee's murder, were being exposed for the whole world to see.


Hate to sound callous, but I think it had more to do with her worrying about the camera getting a shot of her with black mascara running down her face.
 
  • #98
Yeah it was all fake, JB probably whispered in her ear get ready to go into that unhappy place in your mind we talked about and then she started thinking about a world where she wasn't the prettiest, sexiest, best mom and smartest girl. Makes her cry everytime.
the jail tattoo picture of her back may have come to mind perhaps? :sick:
 
  • #99
  • #100
At one point, JA reminded us all that KC is presumed innocent. A little later he went on to speculate about Caylee and what may have happened. As he was speaking the camera panned to KC, where she was obviously struggling with her emotions. When she said “make him stop” she was visibly upset. She cried, and it looked as if she was close to hyperventilating. There are many who may be of the opinion that this was all staged, and she has no feelings, and can bring tears to her eyes at will. That is not my opinion. My opinion is the tears were real, she was upset at hearing what possibly could have happened to her daughter, and while listening to the heart wrenching words being spoken by JA those emotional reactions are normal. It would seem that here in the court of public opinion that any emotion or reaction by KC about anything, can and will be twisted and turned to fit whatever point about KC one would want to prove. For example, if she did not cry, or become upset, then many would be talking about how cold and calculated she is. If she only cried a little, she would be a heartless killer that could barely shed a tear while hearing about her daughter being duct taped. If she had hyperventilated, and went on a long uncontrollable crying jag, she would be admitting her guilt by uncontrollably crying. She is in an impossible situation. I respect the fact that each of us here in the court of public opinion are allowed our own opinions, I respect all the opinions here, I would ask in return that my opinions would be treated with the same respect. As always moo. JA reminded us all that KC is presumed innocent, at one point.

Casey has the right for presumption of innocence... you have the right to your opinion.. What rights did Caylee have?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdMz8cW_H8[/ame]
 
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