2009.12.11 Motions Hearing #2

[Bittiness39]

I think AL's argument about her family not being able to visit to show support is very weak. For one thing, before ANY of her visits were released to the media, she absolutely refused to see them - that was in late July 2008. And, at one point, IIRC CA also was a no-show and the reporter who asked why was told it was a little "tit for tat". I realize that was when they were trying to get information out of her, but after she was home on bail it was no longer an issue.

In fact, it would have looked a lot better for any defendant to have their family visit. I can only think that either KC refused to see them, as she had done in July, or JB refused to let them after he saw how badly she came across to the public when they saw how self-absorbed and caustic she was to her parents. GA and CA could have easily stuck to little pleasantries and supportive words; I think that everyone involved knew that KC is a loose cannon and cannot be trusted to manage her own perception on film.

AL's argument for that point was not just lame, it was laughable, imo.

ITA. Also to add to your post, hello, ummm, KC's family has never been turned away from the jail. It is not like they show up and can't see KC. They are not showing up for whatever reason. KC is refusing to see them for whatever reason. They have a right to see her if she so wants it that badly. AL did nothing but hurt herself today.

 

[RR0004]

I think that would be a natural reaction to observations people have made throughout the year with KC in court and her behavior after her child was missing. Previously any emotion she has shown was about her. Any time her parents brought up the subject of Caylee on the jail videos KC clearly directed the conversation away from Caylee and back to herself. So when people watch her now they are drawing on what resources they have in their memory which is she is crying because she feels she is being attached. Very much like a friend you know that becomes dramatic when they feel the attention is no longer focused on them. You have history with this person and know when their reaction is real and when it is fake. JMO My own opinion is she is running out of time and she suddenly realizes it.

How does the expression go? Too little, too late? The fact that so many here could have predicted that we'd see more tears this time around further confirms, at least to me, that they've been listening to their jury coach...and reading the boards.

ETA: and that goes for her acknowledging her parents in court today as well.

 

[cecybeans]

ITA. Also to add to your post, hello, ummm, KC's family has never been turned away from the jail. It is not like they show up and can't see KC. They are not showing up for whatever reason. KC is refusing to see them for whatever reason. They have a right to see her if she so wants it that badly. AL did nothing but hurt herself today.

You're so right - they have never been prohibited physically. Her argument that it would be a media circus is weak though. Her parents have been happy to brave the media circus when they thought they could control the content. How advantageous for her client to have something on film that would humanize her and create sympathy in the media. Problem is, you can't exactly convince KC to behave in her best interest.

 

[Soju]

Wow.

Here's my take on today's hearing:


Defense: "poor casey, destroy video, poor casey, no visits, poor casey, caselaw about dentures and glasses, poor casey, unconstitutional, poor casey, alone, poor casey, re-invent the wheel, poor casey, state wants to kill, poor casey, biased jurors, poor casey, media scrutiny, poor casey, emotional well-being, poor casey, poor casey poor casey poor casey poor casey...."

Ashton: CAYLEE!!!!

The end.

 

[Oakley]

We need to compare the deposition of the jail report from one year ago today with how KC acted today. Red face, angry, and heaving, it all sounds very similar. Does anyone know where that report is? Is the behavior the same when confronted with truth?

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crim...eaction-when-she-learned-childs-remains-found

Scroll down to view 8+ minute video.

"Collapsed...hyperventilating...deep breaths...head buried in lap...rapid, fast breathing...red blotches" upon hearing remains of small child found at location.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I think AL's argument about her family not being able to visit to show support is very weak. For one thing, before ANY of her visits were released to the media, she absolutely refused to see them - that was in late July 2008. And, at one point, IIRC CA also was a no-show and the reporter who asked why was told it was a little "tit for tat". I realize that was when they were trying to get information out of her, but after she was home on bail it was no longer an issue.

In fact, it would have looked a lot better for any defendant to have their family visit. I can only think that either KC refused to see them, as she had done in July, or JB refused to let them after he saw how badly she came across to the public when they saw how self-absorbed and caustic she was to her parents. GA and CA could have easily stuck to little pleasantries and supportive words; I think that everyone involved knew that KC is a loose cannon and cannot be trusted to manage her own perception on film.

AL's argument for that point was not just lame, it was laughable, imo.

I don't think KC has any desire to visit with either of her parents because she no longer has any use for them (that socipath behavior again). When she entertained those visits after her first jailing, she needed something....them to find a way to bail her out.

Now, they are useless to her so she is done with them.

 

[Soju]

How does the expression go? Too little, too late? The fact that so many here could have predicted that we'd see more tears this time around further confirms, at least to me, that they've been listening to their jury coach...and reading the boards.

ETA: and that goes for her acknowledging her parents in court today as well.

She did? Sorry if it was mentioned before. I didn't notice. was it at the beginning when cindy was handing out kleenex?

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think AL's argument about her family not being able to visit to show support is very weak. For one thing, before ANY of her visits were released to the media, she absolutely refused to see them - that was in late July 2008. And, at one point, IIRC CA also was a no-show and the reporter who asked why was told it was a little "tit for tat". I realize that was when they were trying to get information out of her, but after she was home on bail it was no longer an issue.

In fact, it would have looked a lot better for any defendant to have their family visit. I can only think that either KC refused to see them, as she had done in July, or JB refused to let them after he saw how badly she came across to the public when they saw how self-absorbed and caustic she was to her parents. GA and CA could have easily stuck to little pleasantries and supportive words; I think that everyone involved knew that KC is a loose cannon and cannot be trusted to manage her own perception on film.

AL's argument for that point was not just lame, it was laughable, imo.

I am split in my opionion of the motive behind AL's motion. I think she is doing her best to play both sides. If she argues for the video destruction (which she darn well knows would be unethical) and wins, she may be able to use G & C to convince her to plea (thus getting the D P off the table and mission accomplished). If she loses, she can use the excuse that her client was denied emotional support. BUT, she could also use that to her ADVANTAGE for mitigation purposes during the penalty phase. She could argue that KC's relationship with family was so dysfunctional that they refused to visit with her because it may infringe on their privacy. She could plead with the jury to see how damaged KC is and use evidence of her families "reasoning" for not visiting her to bolster her case. It is a very curious dichotomy between the actions taken and words spoken in this case. I hope that we can recall some of these directional shifts come trial time. So far, they are interesting if nothing else.

 

[trigger]

I think Casey is ONLY crying because she finally realizes her game is OVER.

I think she is beginning to realize that her life is on the line and that she faces the very real possibility of being put to death.

as always, it's about HER :furious:

ITA. She always got away with everything from forging grandmas checks and her friends, having lied about having a nanny, using her friends check at Target and mistakenly signing her name on it, never reporting her daughter missing which she concealed this LIE for a whole month.

Shes feeling the guilt now. She cannot get out of this one.

She better start praying because God does not like ugly.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I don't know if I can watch it if Janie W is on too. UGGHH!!! I can't take her.

I think I'll skip it. I want to be able to keep my TV intact.

I started a thread on the show tonight. But I think everyone is too busy here!

 

[Kentjbkent]

ITA. Also to add to your post, hello, ummm, KC's family has never been turned away from the jail. It is not like they show up and can't see KC. They are not showing up for whatever reason. KC is refusing to see them for whatever reason. They have a right to see her if she so wants it that badly. AL did nothing but hurt herself today.

Not sure if it works the same way in Florida, but just recently found out that here in Georgia, an inmate has to submit paperwork for any visitors for approval (takes about 2 weeks to get approved) before an inmate can entertain a visit from a friend or family. The inmate has complete control over who is on their visitor list (addition or removing) at all times.

If KC did not submit paperwork at the time she was arrested the last time requesting GA/CA for visitor approval (from jail), then there would be no reason for them to even attempt to go to the jail and see her. KC is in complete control, not GA/CA (if it is the same in FL as GA)

Edited to Add: And I don't think we can ever expect to see CA state that KC (her best friend) does not want to see them or turned down a visit from them.

 

[Omachka]

I was also fortunate enough to be able to attend today's hearing. Just like MuzikMan and JustBeachy I was able to see the monitor from the cameras. It's really very interesting how all those camera feeds can be put into one monitor. The robotic camera was operated with a remote that looks very much like an ordinary TV remote. It was fascinating and also helpful for being able to see things that happened in the front of the courtroom that I couldn't quite see from the back.

One thing I did notice about the first crying incident when they were talking about not taping visits in the jail. CA seemed to be digging around in front of her seat (I'm assuming reaching into her purse) for several minutes before KC began to poke at her eye in an effort to cry. Once the tissues were pulled out of the purse (one for herself and one passed up to KC via JB) they both began to cry at the same time. I could be wrong and it could have been a trick of the angle of my view but it looked very put on and timed to a "T" with the defense presentation. I think that was orchestrated... cooked up and planned ahead of time.

From where I sat it was difficult to see exactly how the emotion at the end when JA was speaking started. It appeared to me there was not much reaction right at first and in fact I didn't think KC even heard the beginning of it. She seemed to be reading a document that JB held out to her. I thought maybe he'd been trying to distract her. It wasn't until this evening, reading here and listening to the video of JA's powerful statements that I realized just how angry KC was. I'm actually kind of glad I couldn't see the anger from where I was sitting. I knew she was emotional (which is a big contrast from her usual deadpan face) but sitting in the courtroom I thought it was more tears and hysteria when in reality it was more anger and just a little crying. Being a woman, I know that when I'm very angry I almost always am reduced to tears and most especially when I can't do something about whatever is making me angry so now I'm thinking perhaps anger was all she was feeling when she heard what JA said. Maybe next time she'll stand up and tell him how it really went down. That would sure make things easier, wouldn't it?

To me the highlight of the entire hearing was JA's very short but powerful statement. It took him 2 minutes to completely reply to what took AL 30 minutes to say and he really did shut them down. As rhornsby said... he really threw down the gauntlet. He had the complete attention of everyone in the room and I'm so glad that Caylee has him on her side.

 

[sleutherontheside]

One thing I did notice about the first crying incident when they were talking about not taping visits in the jail. CA seemed to be digging around in front of her seat (I'm assuming reaching into her purse) for several minutes before KC began to poke at her eye in an effort to cry. Once the tissues were pulled out of the purse (one for herself and one passed up to KC via JB) they both began to cry at the same time. I could be wrong and it could have been a trick of the angle of my view but it looked very put on and timed to a "T" with the defense presentation. I think that was orchestrated... cooked up and planned ahead of time.

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.


ITA

 

[RedSox Mom]

I haven't gotten through all the videos yet (hello, Saturday!) but haven't read anything posted either.....

What happened with the JJ motion (protective order)????

It was sealed, and I believe, never to be opened.

 

[Omachka]

I haven't gotten through all the videos yet (hello, Saturday!) but haven't read anything posted either.....

What happened with the JJ motion (protective order)????

They were discussing whether or not the state had to release the hidden tape that JJ made in his deposition (I think :waitasec. The state can't be ordered to release that to the defense because it is an illegally obtained recording so it's illegal for either the state or the defense to listen to it in the first place. The Judge ruled in favor of the state and it won't be released or used in this case at all.

 

[Jolynna]

I think KC's parents have probably been protecting KC from consequences of her actions for years. Being held accountable isn't something KC is used to. In court today, KC acted like a little kid caught with her hand in the cookie jar. First she shook her head in denial..."No my hands not in the jar." Then she bawled because she was busted.

It KC could have she would have put her hands over her ears so she wouldn't have to hear. Instead...she said to her lawyer..."Make him stop!"

KC wasn't crying for Caylee. KC was crying from frustration because she was being made to sit and listen to JA talk about the monstrous thing she had done. Her tears were because she was embarrassed over being caught. She was exposed. Nobody was pretending everything was fine.

Anyway, KC's tears were not from grief over Caylee...not in my opinion. Just like a little kid she was bawling because she'd been caught. She didn't like having to hear about her behavior.

 

[littlemisslegal]

I was able to attend the court hearing today. I saw raw emotional pain from cindy and george. I was not able to see caseys face as her back was to us. I did see the channel 13 news video which showed her tears. I was able to speak for brief moment with both cindy and george. I told them I respect them as I would not want to be in their shoes and I pray for them to be able to be strong. The news said cindy and george left courtroom . they did but came back. I do not feel they left in anger but i felt cindy looked ready to collapse and hearing of the duct tpae was enough to make me feel the pain she must have felt too. no matter what i feel about casey being guilty or innocent if it was my child in the courtroom i would not be probably any different then her parents. How can one love the grandchild dead and not want the child they have as their daughter to be not guilty or facing death penalty??? can you love your daughter if shes guilty? what if they truly believe she is guilty or innocent- regardless sitting in that courtroom i felt omg- what a hell to live for her parents. yet, caylee is the one who i felt was the reason we all were there. i can not say i was not feeling how can this young girl, a mom have done this monster thing? then i thought what if she did not? Then i glanced and saw cindy close her eyes and i assume prayed. I prayed too- please god let the right verdict be - no mistakes . I pray if shes innocent she is not charged wrong, yet pray if she would admit shes guilty the penalty would be what is suppose to be. I do not claim I feel shes guilty or innocent. I will keep
open mind. How I wish caylee was able to tell us what really happened to her.I felt the state attorney was much stronger than andrea. If i was casey i would want the atty who are on opposite side to be mine. he was good. i was in elevator with them when leaving and said to him- you are good!!

 

[Omachka]

It was sealed, and I believe, never to be opened.

Sorry... I'm a slow typer so I was writing while you were posting. Are we supposed to say "bread and butter" or something?

 

[suepitzl]

Can anyone direct me to Ashtons presentation?

 

[trixi491]

After watching KC during JA's speech over and over I am completely convinced that it was JB who told her to cry. Before he whispered to her, she was looking totally pissed, offended, and angry, like she was about to stand up and scream at JA. JB glanced at the camera a little before he whispered to her (maybe he said "the camera's on you, start crying") and right when he moves away she closes her eyes for a few seconds, most likely to get her to that "sad place", and starts sobbing. It was also the closest I've seen him move to her where his mouth was completely hidden so his lips couldn't be read. Yup, this was definitely fake. I believe her first cry was due to "poor me, I have to go through this alone," the second was "see everyone said I was a good mom, why don't you believe me," and the third was on command. No one goes from that much anger to sobs from saddness that quick, no one.