2009.12.11 Motions Hearing #2

[Horace Finklestein]

At one point, JA reminded us all that KC is presumed innocent. A little later he went on to speculate about Caylee and what may have happened. As he was speaking the camera panned to KC, where she was obviously struggling with her emotions. When she said “make him stop” she was visibly upset. She cried, and it looked as if she was close to hyperventilating. There are many who may be of the opinion that this was all staged, and she has no feelings, and can bring tears to her eyes at will. That is not my opinion. My opinion is the tears were real, she was upset at hearing what possibly could have happened to her daughter, and while listening to the heart wrenching words being spoken by JA those emotional reactions are normal. It would seem that here in the court of public opinion that any emotion or reaction by KC about anything, can and will be twisted and turned to fit whatever point about KC one would want to prove. For example, if she did not cry, or become upset, then many would be talking about how cold and calculated she is. If she only cried a little, she would be a heartless killer that could barely shed a tear while hearing about her daughter being duct taped. If she had hyperventilated, and went on a long uncontrollable crying jag, she would be admitting her guilt by uncontrollably crying. She is in an impossible situation. I respect the fact that each of us here in the court of public opinion are allowed our own opinions, I respect all the opinions here, I would ask in return that my opinions would be treated with the same respect. As always moo. JA reminded us all that KC is presumed innocent, at one point.

I just think that with given everything we know about casey, we can safely assume that whatever she is doing, and for whatever reason she is doing it, it is for selfish, questionable and contrived reasons. I get what you're saying, but she made her own bed on this one, imo. She had 31 days to be concerned and cry and do the right thing - now I think some things are hitting home for her.

 

[ibyoungr]

ITA. She always got away with everything from forging grandmas checks and her friends, having lied about having a nanny, using her friends check at Target and mistakenly signing her name on it, never reporting her daughter missing which she concealed this LIE for a whole month.

Shes feeling the guilt now. She cannot get out of this one.

She better start praying because God does not like ugly.

JMO, She does not feel guilt or remorse. She feels anger at being victimized by the LAW. She is crying for herself and the fact she is not getting what SHE WANTS. Socipathic and narsassitic people do not not have real emotion. They KNOW which emotion to portray at the correct time. In Casey's mind, she was not concealing a lie she was just getting what she wanted for the moment. For a moment she wanted her child out of her way, for the moment she wanted TL, for the moment she wanted to party, for a moment she needed money, for the moment she needed to pay her bills, for the moment she would say whatever to keep her mom off her back. Those moments added up to a month.

I believe her tears to be very real but they are tears of self-pity.
(good to be back - haven't been on in awhile!)

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Casey has the right for presumption of innocence... you have the right to your opinion.. What rights did Caylee have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdMz8cW_H8

The early demise of this lovely young child is a sad and tragic situation. The sorrow I feel at the loss of Caylee is every bit as deep as anyone else who has been following this case closely for well over a year. Nothing, I repeat nothing will please me more than when the person responsible for this tragedy is placed behind bars for life, and although I do not support the death penalty, if the jury decides to execute the convicted murderer I will not shed a tear.

The motions argued today made several things perfectly clear. The state is going to make a very strong attempt to prove KC is that murderer, and they want the penalty to be death should they be successful. AL is going to make every legal attempt to get the DP taken off the table .As JS stated, he saw some good lawyering here today. JA’s emotional arguments were very strong. We may be a long way from the actual trial, but it is obvious that both sides are going to do the best they can.

If KC is convicted, see the first paragraph as to how I would feel about what should happen to her. I understand that many people believe a conviction is certain. I am just not there yet. All the wonderful pictures and videos of Caylee make me feel just as sad as the next person. Days like this one where emotions are running pretty much over the top for pretty much all of us are very difficult. I am afraid we will see many days just like this during the trial. If Santa would grant me one Christmas Wish, my wish would be this I would wish that evidence would come to light in this trial that proved beyond any doubt whatsoever who murdered Caylee, then all the good people on this site, and around the world who have been following this case could sleep a little better at night knowing Caylee will finally be able to rest in peace.
As always moo

 

[LadyL]

Wow.

Here's my take on today's hearing:


Defense: "poor casey, destroy video, poor casey, no visits, poor casey, caselaw about dentures and glasses, poor casey, unconstitutional, poor casey, alone, poor casey, re-invent the wheel, poor casey, state wants to kill, poor casey, biased jurors, poor casey, media scrutiny, poor casey, emotional well-being, poor casey, poor casey poor casey poor casey poor casey...."

Ashton: CAYLEE!!!!

The end.

:laughbig:

brilliant!

 

[littlemisslegal]

I was also fortunate enough to be able to attend today's hearing. Just like MuzikMan and JustBeachy I was able to see the monitor from the cameras. It's really very interesting how all those camera feeds can be put into one monitor. The robotic camera was operated with a remote that looks very much like an ordinary TV remote. It was fascinating and also helpful for being able to see things that happened in the front of the courtroom that I couldn't quite see from the back.

One thing I did notice about the first crying incident when they were talking about not taping visits in the jail. CA seemed to be digging around in front of her seat (I'm assuming reaching into her purse) for several minutes before KC began to poke at her eye in an effort to cry. Once the tissues were pulled out of the purse (one for herself and one passed up to KC via JB) they both began to cry at the same time. I could be wrong and it could have been a trick of the angle of my view but it looked very put on and timed to a "T" with the defense presentation. I think that was orchestrated... cooked up and planned ahead of time.

From where I sat it was difficult to see exactly how the emotion at the end when JA was speaking started. It appeared to me there was not much reaction right at first and in fact I didn't think KC even heard the beginning of it. She seemed to be reading a document that JB held out to her. I thought maybe he'd been trying to distract her. It wasn't until this evening, reading here and listening to the video of JA's powerful statements that I realized just how angry KC was. I'm actually kind of glad I couldn't see the anger from where I was sitting. I knew she was emotional (which is a big contrast from her usual deadpan face) but sitting in the courtroom I thought it was more tears and hysteria when in reality it was more anger and just a little crying. Being a woman, I know that when I'm very angry I almost always am reduced to tears and most especially when I can't do something about whatever is making me angry so now I'm thinking perhaps anger was all she was feeling when she heard what JA said. Maybe next time she'll stand up and tell him how it really went down. That would sure make things easier, wouldn't it?

To me the highlight of the entire hearing was JA's very short but powerful statement. It took him 2 minutes to completely reply to what took AL 30 minutes to say and he really did shut them down. As rhornsby said... he really threw down the gauntlet. He had the complete attention of everyone in the room and I'm so glad that Caylee has him on her side.

It was nice meeting you in court today. your right , we could not see her emotions. i saw it on videos from channel 113 news As everyone left courtroom there was a flurry of cameras as they got in elevator. i rode down with the state atty team.

 

[Kathy1964]

Where did I see or hear that Cindy passed a note today to Casey? am I going crazy?LOL!!

I thought at first a note was passed to KC, but I decided it was probably a tissue from someone sitting right behind AL. Anyone?
(I can't make myself go back and look for it-I have been listening to this since 7:30 this morning and then the rerun on HLN.)

 

[Omachka]

I thought at first a note was passed to KC, but I decided it was probably a tissue from someone sitting right behind AL. Anyone?
(I can't make myself go back and look for it-I have been listening to this since 7:30 this morning and then the rerun on HLN.)

From where I was sitting I thought it was a tissue passed from CA to JB who handed it to KC. CA got one out for herself at the same time.

 

[momtective]

ITA. She always got away with everything from forging grandmas checks and her friends, having lied about having a nanny, using her friends check at Target and mistakenly signing her name on it, never reporting her daughter missing which she concealed this LIE for a whole month.

Shes feeling the guilt now. She cannot get out of this one.

She better start praying because God does not like ugly.

IMO she is a sociopath, she does not feel guilt. She feels betrayal, entitlement, and complete disgust for those who oppose her or her way of thinking. As Lyon's was stating that "KC needs someone to tell her they love her" I believe KC was probably thinking "They don't love me, no one loves me, poor, poor me, I'm so unloved and lonely and no one even cares." Her tears were produced from pure self pity. I don't believe for a second that she shed one tear for anyone other than herself, least of all Caylee. It's all about KC, it always has been and in her mind it always will be. Her tears are for herself, not for Caylee. I've heard it said that sociopaths are people without a soul and I think that describes KC perfectly...no soul, no conscience. Just self pity. jmho

 

[littlemisslegal]

From where I was sitting I thought it was a tissue passed from CA to JB who handed it to KC. CA got one out for herself at the same time.

Cindy dug in purse for tissue . she handed one to lady in front of her who handed to casey. Jose semed to comfort her . he spoke to her with lips facing back of her head whisper in ear. I can not read lips. The man i sat next to was with today show said 7am show tomorrow . I told him - you type fast! every word he got !!

 

[LadyL]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crim...eaction-when-she-learned-childs-remains-found

Scroll down to view 8+ minute video.

"Collapsed...hyperventilating...deep breaths...head buried in lap...rapid, fast breathing...red blotches" upon hearing remains of small child found at location.

I think it's strange that she supposedly asked for "some kind of medication". That's suspicious to me.

O/T When I was told my baby girl was dying, my first reaction (and those of my close family & friends) was to collapse, be in shock, scream, cry etc. My sister totally lost her mind for a few seconds . We all walked around in a daze for awhile, mechanically trying to complete necessary errands alternating with bouts of grief and necessary hope. Not once did I ask for any medication.

The reason I didn't ask for drugs is b/c I wasn't thinking about myself. My friends & family weren't thinking about where they could score something to make them feel better either. We were all trying to do things to prepare for my daughter's death while at the same time trying desperately to think of things that would save her. I mean, that is all we we cared about, not our own emotional/mental states, which were obviously unstable and devastated.

So, I just find it weird that she supposedly needed to numb herself to that. I mean, no one wants to feel that pain but as a parent, trying to escape that pain in that moment, seems almost disrespectful to the dying or dead child.

I'm not, by any means, suggesting that many of us need medication to cope or function after the fact. I'm just saying in that moment - is it normal to think "meds, I need some drugs" or whatever she actually said?

I mean no offense or hurt to anyone here & would like to hear differing viewpoints (jmo).

 

[songline]

Here you go

http://www.wftv.com/video/21935023/index.html

Thank you

 

[sleutherontheside]

I would love to attend a hearing and have family in Orlando that would house me....I am just always afraid that I'll drive all the way there and then it will be too full. For those who have attended, how early do you get there, and what is the protocol? Is there enough "side action" in the courtroom to make sitting there in person worth it?

 

[LadyL]

so by my count, we're up to five WS members who attended this hearing ...

that's fantastic

will people who attend the trial be able to blog about it here?

 

[songline]

The early demise of this lovely young child is a sad and tragic situation. The sorrow I feel at the loss of Caylee is every bit as deep as anyone else who has been following this case closely for well over a year. Nothing, I repeat nothing will please me more than when the person responsible for this tragedy is placed behind bars for life, and although I do not support the death penalty, if the jury decides to execute the convicted murderer I will not shed a tear.

The motions argued today made several things perfectly clear. The state is going to make a very strong attempt to prove KC is that murderer, and they want the penalty to be death should they be successful. AL is going to make every legal attempt to get the DP taken off the table .As JS stated, he saw some good lawyering here today. JA’s emotional arguments were very strong. We may be a long way from the actual trial, but it is obvious that both sides are going to do the best they can.

If KC is convicted, see the first paragraph as to how I would feel about what should happen to her. I understand that many people believe a conviction is certain. I am just not there yet. All the wonderful pictures and videos of Caylee make me feel just as sad as the next person. Days like this one where emotions are running pretty much over the top for pretty much all of us are very difficult. I am afraid we will see many days just like this during the trial. If Santa would grant me one Christmas Wish, my wish would be this I would wish that evidence would come to light in this trial that proved beyond any doubt whatsoever who murdered Caylee, then all the good people on this site, and around the world who have been following this case could sleep a little better at night knowing Caylee will finally be able to rest in peace.
As always moo

What a sweet Christmas Wish....I ditto that wish.

I like you am not convinced that this is a slam dunk. I know KC will do Jail time, I just do not know how much yet.
I am still not convinced the state can make it stick. I still see that a direct link to the deed is missing.
I would love for someone to come forth and have that missing link to turn this into a Just Verdict with out a shadow of a doubt.
While I was glued to this case till September, I read on and off lately, but I did watch the court case today,
I do think that KC was upset when they spoke on how Caylee was murdered, was the tissue thing staged
I do not know, but she was upset. (rightfully so) JMO

 

[Nore]

Today, I find myself running short of time. Therefore, I apologize in advance, as I have just viewed the Hearing and my observations, I'm sure, have already been discussed.

KC's emotional display during Ashton's arguments, IMO, seemed she was "re-living," if you will, her murderous actions against Caylee - however, in no way, did I get the feeling of remorse - just that she was experiencing remorse for having gotten caught.

The wiping of her tears and subsequent viewing of either her fingers or the tissue, spoke volumes ...... why, oh why would one truly in a crippling emotional state give two hoots if their mascara is running? That, to me, is the reason she continued looking at her fingers and the tissue, to make sure "all the black" was not left around her eyes ........ also, all during these *wiping, looking* episodes - she continued to smooth each side of her hair.

Now come on ......... if I were innocent, sitting in KC's chair and listening to all that was said - it would not matter one iota if I had "black tracks" running down my face, snot (pardon me, please) dripping off my chin or hair looking wild after my attempts to just "get it out of the way" during my depth of despair.

This woman, as most of us agree, is a cold, calculated killer - even AL cannot prep her enough to appear any differently, IMO.

---------------------
Boy are you right!! I want to go there and hack off her hair:banghead: she is driving everyone nuts.Take it from one who knows,she is VERY nervous over this.Maybe the truth has set in a bit.

 

[Nore]

What a sweet Christmas Wish....I ditto that wish.

I like you am not convinced that this is a slam dunk. I know KC will do Jail time, I just do not know how much yet.
I am still not convinced the state can make it stick. I still gee that a direct link to the deed is missing.
I would love for someone to come forth and have that missing link to turn this into a Iust Verdict with out a shadow of a doubt.
While I was gled to this case till September, I read on and off lately, but I did watch the court case today,
I do think that KC was upset when they spoke on how Caylee was murdered, was the tissue thing staged
I do not know, but she was upset. (rightfully so) JMO

----------------
OT ~ please excuse.Shades of the SP. trial. I often think of Distaso..

 

[Theonly1]

It was sealed, and I believe, never to be opened.

Okay. So I gather from the argument that it was a recorded conversation without both parties' knowledge? And JJ was moving for the protective order (which logic would dictate that "someone" taped him without his knowledge). Wonder who that could have been? I surely hope it wasn't one of the investigators for an attorney as SURELY they would know it is ILLEGAL in Florida to record someone without their permission (baring certain exceptions).

 

[suki]

Wow.

Here's my take on today's hearing:


Defense: "poor casey, destroy video, poor casey, no visits, poor casey, caselaw about dentures and glasses, poor casey, unconstitutional, poor casey, alone, poor casey, re-invent the wheel, poor casey, state wants to kill, poor casey, biased jurors, poor casey, media scrutiny, poor casey, emotional well-being, poor casey, poor casey poor casey poor casey poor casey...."

Ashton: CAYLEE!!!!

The end.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Here's my take on it....

JB: he should have called in SICK!

AL: wins MotorMouth Award of the day

KC: Its All Over But The Crying

Ashton: PRICELESS!!!

 

[Searchfortruth]

I see Casey as a person that lived in a house where the rule (written by Cindy) was don't confront, don't check up on, don't question, avoid problems with Casey at all cost. This has been Casey's whole world, she has never been held accountable for anything. What is ironic, is the fact that now the state of Florida is very much holding her accountable, in the most serious way possible. She is now facing the most severe punishment the state of Florida has to offer. Most people have some experience in dealing with the responsibilities of their actions, this is Casey's first go around in that department. While Casey is responsible for her daughters death, I can't help but to wonder what she would be like if she had consistent consequences for her behavior growing up.

I still think she should rot in prison for the rest of her life for Caylee's murder.

 

[Kathy1964]

Okay. So I gather from the argument that it was a recorded conversation without both parties' knowledge? And JJ was moving for the protective order (which logic would dictate that "someone" taped him without his knowledge). Wonder who that could have been? I surely hope it wasn't one of the investigators for an attorney as SURELY they would know it is ILLEGAL in Florida to record someone without their permission (baring certain exceptions).

JJ was being interviewed by the defense (Not sure, but JB I think) concerning a search on Suburban.
JJ secretly taped the interview, then went to police (SA?) and told them what he had done, and said the things he said on the tape to Baez weren't true.
SA filed a motion for a protective order for it to be sealed --the tape is illegal, and it would be against the law to release it--or for either side to listen to it.
Judge S granted the protective order. The tape is now sealed forever, cannot be used in trial.


Now my opinion--I think that JJ somehow managed to say that he searched in exactly the spot where Caylees remains were found, and she was not there at the time of his search. He may have also said that he was assigned to search there by TES, which was not true. Apparently a group of searchers went off on their own and searched. I think during the interview he realized perhaps things were being twisted, or his hinky meter went off for some reason, so he turned on his recorder. Because Baez didn't know of the recording, it became illegal. Baez wanted that info for 2 reasons (1)To place Caylee's remains there later, meaning KC couldn't have done it because she was in jail (2) This name was not disclosed to Baez with the list of TES searchers who were in the area of Suburban. Baez wanted to use this as a reason to get ALL of the TES records instead of the limited number he was granted by the court.
My opinion based on what has been made public.
Katharine