2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[Donjeta]

I just can't shake the thought that if the stain was something innocent, wouldn't ICA have known what it was? It was her car, her stuff in the trunk, she'd know what leaked. ICA would have told JB so, and he'd have got a chemist to test it and waved the test results triumphantly in the court room. George and Cindy, maybe Lee could have said, "Oh yeah that stain's been there for ages."

 

[wenwe4]

Wow. This thread is 14 pages long today on my 40-posts-per-page settings. There is so much good information and hypothesizing here, but it's unwieldy to wade through. Also, there seem to be some specific posts that we frequently want to revisit, either to refresh our memories :waitasec: or to get new WSers up to speed :grouphug:.

Below, please find an index of some of these posts, listed by their post # (since not everyone chooses the same posts-per-page settings).

DISCLAIMERS: Every post in this thread is valuable and there has been & will continue to be great discussion on this topic. Please know I am just trying to create a directory, especially of the images, and that the presence or absence of a particular post on this list is NOT a value judgement about any WSer!

Format here is post #, author, brief descriptor.

18, eidetic, unenhanced LE photos of trunk liner/spare tire cover
26, eidetic, unenhanced LE photos of test strip cut from spare tire cover
31, QueenD, how spare tire cover sits in trunk of Sunfire
56, Jolynna, link to Dr. Vass report
94, eidetic, color saturation increased view of liner/spare tire cover
107, JWG, possible outline of child FBI mention
112, eidetic, possible evidence of scrubbing trunk liner
129, eidetic, photo montage of white bag of trash, child in fetal position, laundry bag, trunk
170, Harmony2, photo montage of trunk, blue crate, white garbage bag
241, AZlawyer, another view with color saturation heightened
298, JWG, first thumbnail of stain from FBI photo
310, JWG, further analysis of FBI reports, 1st JWG interpretation of outline of child
324, Harmony2, analysis of FBI LIBS and entomology reports
365, BondJamesBond, further analysis of JWG's original interpretation of photo of outline
390, Harmony2, scientific analysis/link to article on decomposition
400, ynotdivein, theory on chloroform levels in trunk
405, ynotdivein, photo/theory on position of Caylee in laundry bag
445, sarah7855, evidence re: garbage bags found inside laundry bag, not vice versa
455, Intermezzo, link to investigators' photos of trunk
487, joypath, information on DNA re: decomp left in trunk
500, AZlawyer, measuring stain compared to Caylee's height/measurements
503, USARDOG, relevant story re: decomposing remains in black garbage bag left on concrete
520, JBean, link to "2.6 days decomp" thread
541-560, various, theory on position of Caylee's arms based on stain
562, 563, AZlawyer, information and link to machine possibly used by FBI to analyze stain components
620, wenwe4, helpful outline/tracing of shape of child in stain

HTH!

Bumping this incredible index to some of the best work ever done on WS

including USARdog's story about the shroud on concrete in plastic bags that was mentioned earlier today.

 

[wenwe4]

664 – Azlawyer – Do dark bands on image of arm represent duct tape (w/links to LE photos)
683 – LCoastMom – Link to another view of possible hand/fingers with dark band @ wrist
693-695 – wenwe/TallyHo/faefrost – possible shovel line on image; if tape is there = restraint = no accident
701 – ynot – Link to grid map of remains site and items located there (Q104 near arm bones)
712 – Tally – link to BeanE post on what items Q104 was found with
713 – Truth Prevails – Links to video of JA describing Caylee’s possible last moments (KC’s “make him stop” moment)
718 – Intermezzo – Link to thread “The Single Piece of Henkel Duct Tape Found NOT on Remains” (Q104)
734 – AZ – Link to LE picture of Q104
747-755 – Various – Discussion of toe position in image of stain
767 – bogeygal – Link to article about body staining in absence of actual remains
775ff – lemon and others – Theory on what caused white curved line at upper arm area of stain image
781 – cloud9 – Link to image of decomp fluid purging from nose comp. to image of red staining on outside of white trash bag taken from KC’s trunk ***warning GRAPHIC***
791 – 3doglady – Image of white curved line on upper arm portion of stain
795 – MADJGNLAW – Link to excellent LIBS article (thanks also to other posters who shared this)
802 – Chiquita72 – Partial transcription of GA statement to LE on 07/24/08 re: stain/smell
817 – LambChop – Thoughts on process to obtain “shroud of Turin” type image + squirrels
829 – joypath – “It is believed that the unconscious person does NOT have a reaction” to the absence of air.
839 – joypath – On foot image pre/post rigor; decomp rate; stain process; chloroform as fixative
848 – lemon – Stain image outlined to show hands in Caylee’s lap area
861 – AZ – Foot image focus in LE photos (toes)
868 – LcoastMom – Actual temps in Orlando 6/16/08 mean 81/max 90/min 73
880 – AZ – Is there an imprint of one of the letters on the “Big Trouble” shirt visible in the trunk stain?
896 – Chiquita – Link to LE trunk liner & car seat photos (photos 21, 22, 23 at this link represent area where Caylee’s head would have laid)
918 fwd – CarrieSis & others – sorting out image where Caylee’s head would have laid
944 – AZ – Clarifies Caylee was laying with her back against the rear bumper side of trunk, not the back seats :blushing:
948 – CarrieSis – theory that impression is Caylee face down
963 – pip – Picture of a Sunfire trunk/liner (NOT KC’s) for spatial relations
966 – AZ – Herding cats/debunking misconceptions
976 – 3doglady – spatially rotated image looking into KC’s trunk at stain
987 – 3doglady – Stain with outline showing hands bound behind back
1014 – AZ – Theory re: Caylee’s arms bound behind her back in two places supported by fact that LE photos focus so intently on these areas on the trunk liner

bumping for the rest of the story.....gotta see these individual posts!

 

[Harmony 2]

Screen shot from court proceedings today:

 

[Jstc4caylee]

RespectfullyQuoted BLOnDe GuRrL & LCoastMom :cool2:
BBM

I was one who could not see what other people were seeing. I believed that Casey had killed Caylee and believed without a doubt that Caylee was in the trunk of the Pontiac. But, I didn't want to just think I was seeing something or imagine I was...

when I came back to the thread after not looking at it in a while, that image is as "clear as day" to me, now I can't stop seeing it. Even if it isn't caused by Caylee(which I do not believe)I can't stop seeing the form of a small child in that image/stain.

I can't help but see an arm that is bent at the shoulder and comes down along the body to rest near the lap. Others said this, I didn't notice what others were saying until I saw it myself. I understand now, the debates regarding the third piece of duct tape and whether Caylee's hands would have been; bound at all, bound in the front or bound in the back. In my mind I see something still "wrapped" around the wrist, and I was wondering if Casey did tie Caylee's hands in front(or in back)of her she used something other than duct tape?

Like some kind of cloth, a scarf, a tie; something made of fabric? When I read (sorry I forgot who, might not even be this thread)something regarding a "soft kill" vs. ...the alternative-the SA is saying this was not a soft kill. I heard some of what JA had to say in that one hearing and he spoke as if Casey was calm and composed while she took Caylee's life. That is another issue in this case that runs on my mind's back burner. Seeing this image, really seeing it has caused my mind to bring some of that forward.

And, I keep on thinking about the child development book at the Anthony home with "Tantrum" circled and how IIRC, it was said that Caylee was having tantrums.

What two and a half year old...no need to finish that but I will...doesn't have tantrums. Then I think of the video of Casey from jail, how it looks like she is throwing a tantrum. Maybe Casey decided she was the only one allowed to throw a tantrum?

:cow:

That is the first I have seen that. I wont even go into the effect it had on me. I am someone who was suspect of ICA pretty early on, and 100 % re at the end of the trial. You know, I guess I always allowed myself to think ...well, maybe george, maybe an accident.. But no more...I can not even believe what I am seeing...
I told myself I wasnt coming back here, and I only did because I was looking for something I wanted to show someone...I wish I hadnt seen this, but at least now, for me. There is no doubt.

 

[JusticeSeeker1960]

When they released that photo from the crime lab, it was clear to me that I saw her little arm & her hand. The testimonies on the stand about the stains in the trunk pointed to placard B on the left side, and for the life of me, I can't remember that point being brought out in coiurt but I could be wrong! In that I mean AFTER JB spoke to LA & CA about the stain....why wasn't it asked in rebuttal, "Were you not speaking about the LEFT side of the trunk, what about plackard A? That's the side where Caylee was, what made THAT stain? idk, doesn't matter now, I guess.

Bottom line is the jurors didn't look at any evidence....imo, if they did not think there was a dead body in the car.....and if they couldn't decide who made the computer searches, CA or CA...they didn't want to be there, they didn't understand any of it & didn't want to go through the propers measures it would take to come to a true verdict!

 

[eleni777]

When they released that photo from the crime lab, it was clear to me that I saw her little arm & her hand. The testimonies on the stand about the stains in the trunk pointed to placard B on the left side, and for the life of me, I can't remember that point being brought out in coiurt but I could be wrong! In that I mean AFTER JB spoke to LA & CA about the stain....why wasn't it asked in rebuttal, "Were you not speaking about the LEFT side of the trunk, what about plackard A? That's the side where Caylee was, what made THAT stain? idk, doesn't matter now, I guess.

Bottom line is the jurors didn't look at any evidence....imo, if they did not think there was a dead body in the car.....and if they couldn't decide who made the computer searches, CA or CA...they didn't want to be there, they didn't understand any of it & didn't want to go through the propers measures it would take to come to a true verdict!

I thought the FBI and OCSO tested the trunk liner and NOTHING was found..so that's why it wasn't brought up. It tested negative for DNA, DECOMP and then Cindy testified that the stain was there when they bought the car...so the stain was a moot point.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Hi, first timer, here. I have a question for anybody who knows.

bringing the pic over to this page

what are all those little specks behind the measuring tape?

Was the colored photo shown in court? If so, which witness introduced it?

 

[Maia]

Hi, first timer, here. I have a question for anybody who knows.



Was the colored photo shown in court? If so, which witness introduced it?

:greetings: :welcome: :welcome:

Welcome aboard!! I don't know for sure if this was shown or not. I watched everyday of the trial and don't remember seeing it, but I could have been on a potty break, or away doing some mundane domestic chore. If it was shown and I missed it, will someone please let us know? TIA

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Thanks, Maia. I've watched a lot of the trial but came in after it started and missed some days. I'm guessing Bloise would have been the one to show these pictures. I'll eventually review the video and see if it's on there.

That photo is very damning in my opinion, even the black and white one, but it helps if you see the color one first. It's clearly a child. The stain is visibly stronger at the pressure points of where the rear, elbow shoulder, knee and foot would be/are.

I don't know if anybody's said this already, but it's reminiscent of the Shroud of Turin.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Does anyone know why the head area isn't shown? Is it censored out of taste?

 

[Maia]

Does anyone know why the head area isn't shown? Is it censored out of taste?

Most likely...just like the other blurred images.

 

[New1]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see stains that are in the shape of a child's body in that trunk. You can DRAW around anything and make it look like most anything you want to. If the prosecution had this evidence, (which they did) why didn't they draw around it and show it to the jury and say "see, this is an image in the stain of a child's body"? They didn't. It's like looking at clouds in the sky or the moon and making out all kinds of things. I always see a rabbit in the moon, not a man, and if you stare at it long enough the images are numerous. JMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

New1, are you talking about this photo?

You seriously can't see the body parts labeled there in the stain?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

That it shows a child lying on its side is even corroborated by Werner Spitz's testimony, where he said the residue in the skull indicates the skull was lying on its left side when decomposing.

 

[crucibelle]

I wonder why the prosecution did not show these alternative light source pictures? They just showed a pic of the trunk. I didn't see any stain in the trunk on those pics.

 

[21merc7]

I wonder why the prosecution did not show these alternative light source pictures? They just showed a pic of the trunk. I didn't see any stain in the trunk on those pics.

I too felt they did not spend enough time on the trunk, was a first very big observation.

 

[Harmony 2]

for discussion...

 

[Pattymarie]

New1, are you talking about this photo?

You seriously can't see the body parts labeled there in the stain?

Speaking as an RN who understands "bony prominences" this picture was the most horrific and despicable and single piece of evil evidence of the whole trial...will never get it out of my mind (and neither does Cindy)

 

[Roxy Dog]

New1, are you talking about this photo?

You seriously can't see the body parts labeled there in the stain?

My God! I can even see her little fingers. :tears:

I'll never be able to understand the "why" and the "how". I mean, I LOGICALLY understand in my head; I know the facts of the case. But in my heart, I will never be able to wrap my head around this, how anyone, let alone a child's own mother, can do something like this.