2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

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  • #281
Boots-OK said:
But, wasn't the duct tape covering her nose and mouth? Or - could the images have been made through the tape? Heck - I don't know. Just wondering.
Click to expand...

Yes. It was covering her mouth and nose. You could be right. Maybe it showed through the tape. Colors of light mean different things. I *think* blue means blood. There are members here who are great with this.
 
  • #282
  • #283
Boots-OK said:
But, wasn't the duct tape covering her nose and mouth? Or - could the images have been made through the tape? Heck - I don't know. Just wondering.
Click to expand...

I will preface this by saying that I am personally withholding judgment about the green stain/face overlay, just because I don't know enough to decide and I am trying hard to not see something because I "want" to see it... (not that "want" is the right word there, but you know). [ETA: oh gosh, fibel, thank you for the original link to that overlay image--just reread and noticed you said hadn't done one before! A good find and I'm glad you shared it!]

BUT--Boots, you got me thinking, if the tape was held taut by both ends, placed over her features, and then pressed or rubbed down over the nose with a fair amount of pressure, yes, I can imagine one would still be able to see the nostrils and the bridge of the nose through the tape.

But through the tape, the bags, and after a cleanup, would the imprint remain detectable?
 
  • #284
ynotdivein said:
<sniped by me>
But through the tape, the bags, and after a cleanup, would the imprint remain detectable?
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I personally have not ruled out the duct tape being applied post mortem. If poor baby Cayle were laid in the trunk hastily, and it was hot, could this stain have been made. After a small amount of time, the body is then bagged, or taped and bagged. If the evidence shows staining in the car seat, and we believe death may have occurred there, it would reason that the next step of the murderer would be to get the child out of sight. If nothing was available to cover the baby, and she was moved straight to the trunk, only to be later bagged with the subsequent visit back to the house? Just pondering theories here.
 
  • #285
My theory on KC's actions haven't changed since the beginning. She is and was all about "quick and dirty".

I believe she tossed Caylee in the trunk - unbagged. I don't believe she was in the spare tire well - that would have required a little effort.

In KC's nutso world - she probably thought Caylee would lay in the hot trunk indefinitely (until it was convenient for her to remove her). No advance planning, no plan B, just going with the flow and playing it by the seat of her pants.

The stains were made, I believe, prior to any bagging of any kind. The little body lay in that one spot and the seepage was slow and constant - resulting in the complete saturation of that area of the trunk. I do believe that the body weight, the seepage and the general decomposition chemicals make up would have resulted in what these pictures depict. **Edited to clarify: I am speaking of the evidence pictures released. I, honestly, don't have an opinion about whether the facial features would be visible or not.

As far as when the duct tape was placed on her face - I am just going by what has been presented in the docs and my general take on KC. I don't believe she would have taped her up to try and stop the seepage. Naw ... too much work. The tape was used in a fit of rage to shut her up.

All MOO.
 
  • #286
Sorry - one last thought...

Could she have borrowed the shovel to reach the decomposing body in the back of the trunk and move it to be bagged?

I can envision KC reaching in to pull Caylee out by the arm or legs and all sorts of bad things happening. At that point, maybe she ran next door to borrow the shovel to assist in the retrieval and bagging of the body.
 
  • #287
Boots-OK said:
My theory on KC's actions haven't changed since the beginning. She is and was all about "quick and dirty".

I believe she tossed Caylee in the trunk - unbagged. I don't believe she was in the spare tire well - that would have required a little effort.

In KC's nutso world - she probably thought Caylee would lay in the hot trunk indefinitely (until it was convenient for her to remove her). No advance planning, no plan B, just going with the flow and playing it by the seat of her pants.

The stains were made, I believe, prior to any bagging of any kind. the little body lay in that one spot and the seepage was slow and constant - resulting in the complete saturation of that area of the trunk. I do believe that the body weight, the seepage and the general decomposition chemicals make up would have resulted in what these pictures depict.

As far as when the duct tape was placed on her face - I am just going by what has been presented in the docs and my general take on KC. I don't believe she would have taped her up to try and stop the seepage. Naw ... too much work. The tape was used in a fit of rage to shut up her.

All MOO.
Click to expand...

Boots! You and I are on the same page. KC is lazy and she never plans for the future just the now - the night of blockbuster - she had Caylee in her car trunk after killing her that very evening - She taped caylee's mouth to stop her from crying and breathing - Caylee was in that trunk for a while until the smell was noticed by others, then the bagging happened and then the bag was put back int he trunk until the bag's were smelling real bad so she dumps Caylee's body but doesn't want to clean the trunk so she fills it with real garbage to convince herself and others that smell was pizza.
When that didn't work, she just dumped the entire car.
 
  • #288
As far as we know, the tape may also have been over Caylee's eyes as well...recall there were more pieces of this tape found that had detatched from whatever they had previously been attached to. I seriously doubt that the image is what it appears to be...we have chased kittens that were not there before and I think this is one of those nonexistent kittens...I don't think the decomp would present in a manner that would preserve facial features, it is liquid, fluid, and I just don't believe it works that way. Certainly there could have been a shape of her body, but other than that I seriously doubt we would see actual facial features in the decomp stain...No offense...
 
  • #289
I do believe an outline of the body might be there, but I don't think it is possible to get such detail in images from 2.5 days in the trunk. I admit, I could swear I see vertebrate bones in another, but I really don't believe it's possible.
 
  • #290
fibelmail said:
I personally have not ruled out the duct tape being applied post mortem. If poor baby Cayle were laid in the trunk hastily, and it was hot, could this stain have been made. After a small amount of time, the body is then bagged, or taped and bagged. If the evidence shows staining in the car seat, and we believe death may have occurred there, it would reason that the next step of the murderer would be to get the child out of sight. If nothing was available to cover the baby, and she was moved straight to the trunk, only to be later bagged with the subsequent visit back to the house? Just pondering theories here.
Click to expand...
Well it would be impossible for duct tape to have been applied after decomp had set in, as, and this is gross, decomp begins in the form of fluids leaking from the orifices, the nose especially. If you have ever tried to put duct tape on something that was the least bit damp, then you will recall that it will not stick whatsoever...

Also we have Dr. G, the ME stating that the tape was placed PRE-decomp...and then the states argument in court, or their description rather, of the duct tape being placed while Caylee lived and breathed...so I am guessing that they have a clearer understanding and knowledge of exactly what DR. G meant by PRE-decomp, although we here have wildly debated it.:blushing:
 
  • #291
  • #292
fibelmail said:
I have never tried a link, but I am trying to show what I see and have the wonderful minds of WS tell me that this is not what I see (I really do not want to believe it)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?c306a1b27a.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi! :)

Is this green evidence photo (on left) definately from the trunk? The reason I ask is because 2 friends of mine (not on WS) each had another theory.
1. Were they trying to match up Caylee's photo with her skull for some reason?
2. Were they trying to match up Caylee's photo with a photo that may have been found at the remains site, and why?

Just thinkin'...
 
  • #293
cloud9 said:
Hi! :)

Is this green evidence photo (on left) definately from the trunk? The reason I ask is because 2 friends of mine (not on WS) each had another theory.
1. Were they trying to match up Caylee's photo with her skull for some reason?
2. Were they trying to match up Caylee's photo with a photo that may have been found at the remains site, and why?

Just thinkin'...
Click to expand...

The green evidence photo is definitely from the trunk. If you look closely at that series of photos, you can identify which items they are photographing. That one is from the edge of the spare tire cover.
 
  • #294
AZlawyer said:
The green evidence photo is definitely from the trunk. If you look closely at that series of photos, you can identify which items they are photographing. That one is from the edge of the spare tire cover.
Click to expand...

AZlawyer :)

Thank you so very much!:dance:
 
  • #295
  • #296
  • #297
I see the image of her face there as well.
However, I dont believe it is an actual imprint.
Ive seen shapes of elephants in the clouds buuuut...:waitasec: doubtful caused by a real one.
 
  • #298
From today's discovery. I think the top circle is the head, middle is the shoulder, and bottom is the...bottom (rear end).

I see what the FBI agent was referring to. :(

Trunk2.PNG
 
  • #299
JWG said:
From today's discovery. I think the top circle is the head, middle is the shoulder, and bottom is the...bottom (rear end).

I see what the FBI agent was referring to. :(

View attachment 8265
Click to expand...

Quote respect JWG. I know I am asking for a lot, but can you or another of our image wizards overlay or otherwise relate the image you posted above with some of the trunk stain images included earlier in this thread?

TIA and oh did I mention my mad respect for your sleuthiness?
 
  • #300
JWG said:
From today's discovery. I think the top circle is the head, middle is the shoulder, and bottom is the...bottom (rear end).

I see what the FBI agent was referring to. :(

View attachment 8265
Click to expand...

I agree, I see it clearly. Was this an enhancement of the luminol reaction? And could I get a pg. number?
 
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