2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

Hey, I rarely post but I had to jump in here. Be aware my knowledge is limited but I do have some to share. I am a biotechnology student and I work with DNA on occasion.

It is more likely that if there was DNA in the trunk it degraded between the period of time that Caylee was placed in there and the time CA found it. Warm, moist temperatures will cause it to degrade, over time. It takes a lot of heat to completely destroy DNA. Relatively low heat (say 200 or so degrees) will not completely destroy DNA. It will cause it to basically split in two (between the nucleotide bases, hydrogen bonds), more accurately, it melts and can be reformed when cooled. If it was steam cleaned it would have to be very high heat to destroy it completely because of the covalent bonds in the back bone of DNA. A quick search on steam cleaners and their temps came up with 180 degrees. Even if there were fragments left (how possible would it be to completely remove every piece of DNA from that trunk with a steam cleaner?) PCR could be performed. (PCR uses the "melting" aspect of DNA to drive its process, heat is applied and the two strands break apart allowing matching nucleotides to join and make copies, aka amplify)

I am guessing that Caylee was in a bag that did not leak. Where the stain came from, I do not know. Could be unrelated or if it is her fluids, it degraded over time.

Oh I can almost hear it now... JUNK SCIENCE!! No real evidence found!! Any science that proves guilt is, "junk science," and any that can be twisted to show innocense is of course, the gospel... And I can almost see the Baez smirk as he does his best legal beagle version of the twist. Don't think he can win, but it will be interesting to say the least.

Very good post by the way, thanks!
 
BBM
CM,
Think instead of State Prosecutor Jeff Ashton speaking during the trial to the Jury about the outline of a little girls decomposing body in the trunk of her mother's car.
Just like when he spoke in court to the Judge and those in attendance about how the duct tape was being applied to Caylee and her last moments of life.

Oh my GOD my breath STILL catches to this day and it feel like a physical punch to my gut when I think about JA in that one hearing you're talking about, where Casey was asking her lawyers to make him stop. She thinks THAT'S the worst of it?

I just know I'm going to break down when he speaks at the trial, lose my breath time and again, but be so proud that he's orating so well and letting the jury know exactly what this poor baby went through. No niceties or going soft for YOU Casey! You're going to hear EVERY LAST WORD of what he has to say and so are your parents!

I also get chills everytime I see pictures of the outline in the trunk...how ANYONE can do that to a child...there is a special place in hell just for those people...
 
Decomp stains... Had something unusual happen about 2 weeks ago. Found in the street in front of my house a dead Opossum. Since I'm in Texas, he was a BIG fellow, much larger than our Florida Opossums, and quite handsome white and grey. Anyway, not wanting to see him turned into a road rash I scooped up his body with a shovel, (sound familiar?) and put him first in a construction grade black plastic bag, then in one of our Texas garbage bags for pick-up a couple of days later, and left him outside on the driveway next to the house. This area gets much afternoon sun. Well, he really started to smell! And when I picked up the bag to take it to the street, there "burned" into the concrete was an exact image of his body but it was in black. I could see the nose, eyes, ears, body and tail. It reminded me of a concrete "Shroud of Turin." Reading this thread, I can guess, before the carpet was washed, the image might very well have been far clearer. And who washed the carpet? They must surely have had to deal with a very realistic image.
 
what other site and is it one that is an acceptable reference here? And the idea that one might pass a fetus and put it in the trunk of the car is surreal. Especially given the hair with the death band and the length of it.

I suppose the defense might introduce this possibility as a means of supporting the PPP which was bandied about initially regarding this case....but then they would have to conceed a few things that would certainly tangle their client up. JMVHO.

ITA. Now I know why they want all of her pictures thrown out! Cause see, they try to say it was a fetus, and all the prosecution has to do is bring out any picture of her at that time, and believe me, she definitely does NOT look pregnant in ANY WAY.

No way that was a fetus. It was Caylee, poor, sweet Caylee. Justice for her cannot come fast enough.
 
Decomp stains... Had something unusual happen about 2 weeks ago. Found in the street in front of my house a dead Opossum. Since I'm in Texas, he was a BIG fellow, much larger than our Florida Opossums, and quite handsome white and grey. Anyway, not wanting to see him turned into a road rash I scooped up his body with a shovel, (sound familiar?) and put him first in a construction grade black plastic bag, then in one of our Texas garbage bags for pick-up a couple of days later, and left him outside on the driveway next to the house. This area gets much afternoon sun. Well, he really started to smell! And when I picked up the bag to take it to the street, there "burned" into the concrete was an exact image of his body but it was in black. I could see the nose, eyes, ears, body and tail. It reminded me of a concrete "Shroud of Turin." Reading this thread, I can guess, before the carpet was washed, the image might very well have been far clearer. And who washed the carpet? They must surely have had to deal with a very realistic image.

Yeah, and not even THAT image stopped Cindy from cleaning it! That makes me SO MAD!!!!
 
I agree that no way was that a fetus...but do the Anthony's/Defense think it is any better for ICA to be driving around with a dead fetus in her trunk vs Caylee???? Just how many dead bodys do these people want to account for??????
 
Speaking of dead bodies, don't forget it was CA who said something like, Someone must have placed a dead body in the trunk of ICA's car while it was at the tow yard. Yet another dead body floating around Orlando and the A's!:waitasec:
 
I don't know how any of these >unusual< people sleep at night.

Hopefully, with nightmares.
 
A 3-year-old child should be about 5 "heads" tall (i.e., five times as tall as their head). http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/prop2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.idrawdigital.com/tag/proportions/&h=814&w=746&sz=179&tbnid=7Y_q9v9EZgSfOM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchild%2Bbody%2Bproportions&hl=en&usg=__lXOEJGL0A1D7fNWr4Uj5n5w_Z4g=&ei=R1q1S8_lII--NsjbtaEG&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CBEQ9QEwBA

Caylee was about 37 inches tall, so each "head" length for her would have been about 7.4 inches. Based on BJB's interpretation of the stain on the spare tire cover, Caylee's head was off the cover (on the side of the trunk area), so there should be a total of about 7.4 inches x 4 (instead of 5 because the head is not part of the stain)= 29.6 inches of height represented by the stain.

Looking at the JWG/BJB version of the photo (attached), one foot on LE's ruler equals 1.75 inches on my ruler when I hold my ruler up against the screen.

Using my ruler against the screen, the torso portion of the stain measures 1.75 inches, the back of the upper leg about 1.375 inches, and the back of the lower leg about 1.375 inches. The total is about 4.5 inches. If each 1.75 inch on my ruler equals one foot in "real life" (as measured by LE's ruler), then the height of the body that left the stain, from heel to shoulder, would be 4.5/1.75 feet, or 2.57 feet, or 30.84 inches. Which is pretty darn close to the 29.6 inches that I estimated for Caylee's heel-to-shoulder height.

So. This is just a long way of saying no way was it a fetus. It was Caylee.

----------
Oh would I love to send that image to ICA!!!
 
the other site had this posted According to Caylee’s autopsy report, specifically the UCF Report of Osteological Analysis, the summary concluded that Caylee stood between 36.061” to 37.82” tall. This places her within the normal range for girls her age, and it proves that the shape in the trunk is not the outline of a human body. That image is much too small, even if extended 6” outside of the spare tire . i hesitate to say which site but it was posted .
 
Decomp stains... Had something unusual happen about 2 weeks ago. Found in the street in front of my house a dead Opossum. Since I'm in Texas, he was a BIG fellow, much larger than our Florida Opossums, and quite handsome white and grey. Anyway, not wanting to see him turned into a road rash I scooped up his body with a shovel, (sound familiar?) and put him first in a construction grade black plastic bag, then in one of our Texas garbage bags for pick-up a couple of days later, and left him outside on the driveway next to the house. This area gets much afternoon sun. Well, he really started to smell! And when I picked up the bag to take it to the street, there "burned" into the concrete was an exact image of his body but it was in black. I could see the nose, eyes, ears, body and tail. It reminded me of a concrete "Shroud of Turin." Reading this thread, I can guess, before the carpet was washed, the image might very well have been far clearer. And who washed the carpet? They must surely have had to deal with a very realistic image.

What an interesting story USARDOG! You're sure the opossum was dead before you bagged him???? J/K.......
 
the other site had this posted According to Caylee’s autopsy report, specifically the UCF Report of Osteological Analysis, the summary concluded that Caylee stood between 36.061” to 37.82” tall. This places her within the normal range for girls her age, and it proves that the shape in the trunk is not the outline of a human body. That image is much too small, even if extended 6” outside of the spare tire . i hesitate to say which site but it was posted .

I must go along with the posters who state that the image is an "impression" of a body and therefore not to scale to the human form. The pressure points where the weight of the body distributed itself are not necessarily going to line up perfectly to Caylee's true dimension.

I hate using this description, but it will hopefully explain my point: How many shows have we all watched that show a body being disposed of in a suitcase? I am always amazed that a full-size adult can fit into a carry-on size suitcase. When a body is limp it can be placed into much smaller container than a person could purposely place themself. With Caylee's body being limp when placed in the trunk, it would mold and conform to the trunk as gravity saw fit. This would place the body in a slightly akward resting position, not the fetal position, or a sleeping position. IMO this would easily explain any measurement discrepancies. It is clearly not the outline of a squirrel.
 
the other site had this posted According to Caylee&#8217;s autopsy report, specifically the UCF Report of Osteological Analysis, the summary concluded that Caylee stood between 36.061&#8221; to 37.82&#8221; tall. This places her within the normal range for girls her age, and it proves that the shape in the trunk is not the outline of a human body. That image is much too small, even if extended 6&#8221; outside of the spare tire . i hesitate to say which site but it was posted .

I know exactly which site you mean, and the outline proposed on that site for the "body" was crazy--just a random, not-body-shaped, doll-sized squiggle that corresponded not at all to the actual stain.

As I showed on the previous page, the actual stain corresponds to Caylee's actual height.
 
I must go along with the posters who state that the image is an "impression" of a body and therefore not to scale to the human form. The pressure points where the weight of the body distributed itself are not necessarily going to line up perfectly to Caylee's true dimension.

I hate using this description, but it will hopefully explain my point: How many shows have we all watched that show a body being disposed of in a suitcase? I am always amazed that a full-size adult can fit into a carry-on size suitcase. When a body is limp it can be placed into much smaller container than a person could purposely place themself. With Caylee's body being limp when placed in the trunk, it would mold and conform to the trunk as gravity saw fit. This would place the body in a slightly akward resting position, not the fetal position, or a sleeping position. IMO this would easily explain any measurement discrepancies. It is clearly not the outline of a squirrel.

ITA, but dangit, that reminds me of poor Sandra Cantu...these kids don't deserve in the least what happens to them...at least Sandra's killer is behind bars for good...the wait is hard, but I just know one day next year we'll hear GUILTY for Casey!

And that stain, that outline of Caylee, will be etched in her and her parent's minds forever, their nightmare every night I hope and pray.
 
ITA, but dangit, that reminds me of poor Sandra Cantu...these kids don't deserve in the least what happens to them...at least Sandra's killer is behind bars for good...the wait is hard, but I just know one day next year we'll hear GUILTY for Casey!

And that stain, that outline of Caylee, will be etched in her and her parent's minds forever, their nightmare every night I hope and pray.

BM

I hope the image of that stain in KC's trunk will haunt George and Cindy for their rest of their pathetic lives. But I don't think there's a snowball's chance in H3LL it will ever bother KC.

:twocents:
 
BM

I hope the image of that stain in KC's trunk will haunt George and Cindy for their rest of their pathetic lives. But I don't think there's a snowball's chance in H3LL it will ever bother KC.

:twocents:

OT but Cindy and George's new lawyers must be having an effect on them. Have we heard a peep since the shoe donation mess?

I think the closer we get to the trial, the more difficult it is going to be for both of them to avoid the truth. And the truth is IMO - their daughter murdered their grand daughter.
 
ITA, but dangit, that reminds me of poor Sandra Cantu...these kids don't deserve in the least what happens to them...at least Sandra's killer is behind bars for good...the wait is hard, but I just know one day next year we'll hear GUILTY for Casey!

And that stain, that outline of Caylee, will be etched in her and her parent's minds forever, their nightmare every night I hope and pray.

Unfortunately, the punishment never fits the crime imo.
 
I know exactly which site you mean, and the outline proposed on that site for the "body" was crazy--just a random, not-body-shaped, doll-sized squiggle that corresponded not at all to the actual stain.

As I showed on the previous page, the actual stain corresponds to Caylee's actual height.

BBM

Yes, and thank you! As with the above outline, it is clearly an outline of Caylee's lifeless body in the trunk of that car. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but JB would have to put KC on the stand to tell this new version of the miscarried fetus being placed in the trunk, would he not? He can't just go into court and start throwing out new stories of what happened that differ from KC's statements, can he?
 
I have a question regarding that stain. Has there ever been a discussion on here regarding if part of the size of that stain could possibly be large amounts of sweat mixed with decomp fluids? I have been curious about it.. because that would basically mean that a live Caylee was in the hot trunk for a period of time and sweated out before dying and then left there to decompose.

<shakes head> gaawd I hate that thought.. took alot for me to even type it.. but it has crossed my mind.

wild
 
I have a question regarding that stain. Has there ever been a discussion on here regarding if part of the size of that stain could possibly be large amounts of sweat mixed with decomp fluids? I have been curious about it.. because that would basically mean that a live Caylee was in the hot trunk for a period of time and sweated out before dying and then left there to decompose.

<shakes head> gaawd I hate that thought.. took alot for me to even type it.. but it has crossed my mind.

wild

In the trunk 2.6 days Decomp Info
 

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