2010.03.25 Misty Croslin Flunks Secret Police Polygraph!!

[Whisperer]

.....and she is delusional.

 

[grandmaj]

.....and she is delusional.

No sense of reality. I fear a diminished capacity defense I really do.

 

[suspicious1]

It measure stress. You might argue that someone who gets stressed is unsuitable for LE, that may be why they use it. If someone does not react to questions about wrongdoing, then they would be recorded as "truthfull" when they are not. Likewise if someone does react, they would be recorded as being "untruthfull" when they are not.

A lie detector test (as well as all these other mumbo jumbo tests that have been brought up in connection with this case) does mot measure truthfullness or deceit, all it measures is stress. The assumption is made that there is a correlation, but it is not necessarily so.

She keeps on taking these tests, so she clearly thinks she should be passing them. Her behaviour suggests that she thinks she is innocent but she also feels guilty. That is the more interesting question IMO, why would she believe that? Does she simply not know what happened that night? Does she know and is protecting someone other than herself? Was she doing something illegal, but not directly to the child, so she can't tell the truth without digging her own grave (metaphorically)? Any of those would be viable reasons for her thinking she should pass but constantly failing.

You are absolutely right. Why would Misty keep taking those tests only to Fail them again and again? That leaves so many questions for me. Like, could she be trying to tell LE something by the simple act of taking those LDTs? They know she's lying. At one point Misty begged to take the Voice Stress Test:waitasec: It makes me think that maybe she didn't take part in the actual crime but witnessed it or was told about it by someone who did witness it. I think that when Misty tells her stories to LE she is keeping out the actual players in all of this. Instead she points fingers at her brother and cousin. Like someone else mentioned on here, maybe we need to focus on who Misty is NOT pointing the finger at.

Sometimes I feel like maybe Misty was not around at all that day Haleigh went missing. Why is the WHOLE day, Feb. 9., full of lies? IMO, that whole day was a huge lie.

When Misty took those LDTs in the beginning I wonder if LE asked Misty if she personally had something to do with Haleigh being missing? I mean, did they ask Misty something like "Misty did you do something to Haleigh and later hide her body?" I'm quite sure they had to ask her something like that during the first LDT, why wouldn't they? I wonder what was her answer (IMO, she would've said "NO" of course) but I wonder if that question showed deception? Could that be why LE is calling her the "KEY" because on that particular question or one similiar it showed she was telling the truth?

Just too mamy questions and not enough answers.

 

[lauriej]

I seriously doubt TN, her mother or any of the Cummings submitted to any LDT tests. If they had and had nothing to hide TN and GGMS would have stated they had taken a LDT many many months ago.TN would have been shouting it from the rooftops ...JMO

..TN doesn't need to shout from the rooftops.

..she can go on her BFF NG's show, and tell "mz. nancy" all about it.

( and she might as well do the (fake) gulp---whimper--moan---(fake) sob thing, while she has a camera on her.

 

[LFlorida]

..TN doesn't need to shout from the rooftops.

..she can go on her BFF NG's show, and tell "mz. nancy" all about it.

( and she might as well do the (fake) gulp---whimper--moan---(fake) sob thing, while she has a camera on her.

I think she might put vick's vapor-rub or mentholatum or something like that on her hand, at least some of the time.

I will admit sometimes her tears have looked genuine to me - outside of the Flagler County Jail being the most recent example.

 

[TxLady2]

You can't exclude the possibility that she would fail a lie detector test no matter what. That is the reason they are not admissable. I know that if I was in that situation I would allmost certainly fail every time even though I hadn't done anything, because that is just how I react.

They take that into consideration, Natal. That's why they ask a series of control questions at first, to judge how the body reacts. If you are nervous or scared, that will show up in those first few questions. They look for distinctive reactions like the pulse jumping or skipping, the hands starting to sweat or shake, the rise in heart rate or B/P, things like that.
Misty should not have been scared or nervous, she had taken these tests before. There would be no reason to be scared if she was telling the truth.

 

[nnglas]

I'm starting to think that Misty wasn't at home. Which would be a shame for her because she has nothing to bargain with. She can't pass a lie detector to save her life. She's screwed.

So I think either she went to finish partying or she left someone in the house while she went to purchase them drugs. It doesn't really explain RC's involvment. Unless it was his drug deal maybe.

I don't know. The more time goes by, the more I think she doesn't really know anything, except maybe what she was told.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has anyone ever considered that maybe she`s not talking because she herself did something to Haleigh? I mean, everybody knows that it`s very hard to blend families, and especially with a 17-year- old that`s very immature and knows nothing about mothering.

And I would bet that little Lucy probably has your husband just wrapped around her little finger because that`s what daddies do with daughters. And I think that she was so jealous of Ronald`s relationship with this child, and maybe even moreso because she had medical problems and needed a lot of attention. So I think that she herself, if she didn`t do it, she certainly had somebody to do it for her. And I think her motive was jealousy.

GRACE: Well, Andie in Arkansas, that to me is the obvious answer. I agree with you as to why she`s not talking. And there`s no way she has sat behind bars all this time and endured all these police interviews and questioning to cover for cousin Joe and her brother Tommy. The first thing she did when she got behind bars is rat out Tommy Croslin on an alleged burglary. So why would she cover for him if she were to wake up in the middle of the night and see him standing over Haleigh? I don`t see it.

But to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," what about Andie`s question?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think she`s totally right because when you listen to Misty Croslin, she doesn`t reminisce about Haleigh. She doesn`t talk about feeding her, cooking for her, pushing her on a swing. She doesn`t say to her mom, Mom, do you remember when she was walking to school or when I read that little book to her? She has no empathy towards and no attachment to this little girl and no memories. It`s like someone pressed the erase button, which to me is an indicator of guilt.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Orlando, a specialist in Florida law, Mark Nejame, Eleanor Odom, prosecutor, Atlanta, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.

And I want to go first to Mark Nejame. Weigh in, Mark.

MARK NEJAME, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi. Good evening, Nancy. You know, when it comes to Misty, just really, who knows? The reality of it is she hasn`t been truthful about anything...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Mark Nejame, look, you`ve got a great reputation. You`ve got to give me more than "Who knows." And let me remind you that with us tonight is the attorney for Tommy Croslin, James Werter out of Jacksonville, and he`s willing to put his client strapped up to a poly. So do you really believe, Mark Nejame, that Misty Croslin has sat on this story all this time and not told police?

NEJAME: No. No. I mean, Misty`s out for Misty. Misty failed a polygraph in my office. She`s apparently failed another polygraph. Her story`s changed like the wind changes. I think that Tommy`s lawyer`s doing the right thing. I think he needs to get a polygraph out there. I think, though, that he needs to go ahead and make sure that the questions are the right questions and not just ones that are created that still leave ambiguity out there. He`s got to be real clear about what they`re asking.
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1003/26/ng.01.html


from the above link:

BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, MAJESKI ASSOCIATES, INC.: OK. Just to clear up a couple of issues here. One, you know, a polygraph, it relies on psycho-physiological response.

What you do is you`re asking the person a question. No surprise questions. All the questions are prepared beforehand. They`re gone over beforehand. And the subject is instructed to answer those questions with a simple yes or simple no answer.

So now the process as you ask the question, that person thinks about the response to that question, then responds to it, and then physiologically reacts and those are then transmitted to a chart and those charts are read and evaluated.

In terms of why they want this person to take a polygraph test, contrary stories. What they`re trying to do is they`re trying to get him away from the scene. His initial statements were that he was at the scene when the child disappeared. So the lawyer wants to say OK, let him take a polygraph to prove that he was not there, nowhere near the area when it occurred.

But there are a lot of other things that can be done in terms of the -- you know, the interviewing process with all of these people. You can ask the same question over and over again. But unless you ask it a different way, you`re not going to get a different answer.

 

[TxLady2]

You are absolutely right. Why would Misty keep taking those tests only to Fail them again and again? That leaves so many questions for me. Like, could she be trying to tell LE something by the simple act of taking those LDTs? They know she's lying. At one point Misty begged to take the Voice Stress Test:waitasec: It makes me think that maybe she didn't take part in the actual crime but witnessed it or was told about it by someone who did witness it. I think that when Misty tells her stories to LE she is keeping out the actual players in all of this. Instead she points fingers at her brother and cousin. Like someone else mentioned on here, maybe we need to focus on who Misty is NOT pointing the finger at.

Sometimes I feel like maybe Misty was not around at all that day Haleigh went missing. Why is the WHOLE day, Feb. 9., full of lies? IMO, that whole day was a huge lie.

When Misty took those LDTs in the beginning I wonder if LE asked Misty if she personally had something to do with Haleigh being missing? I mean, did they ask Misty something like "Misty did you do something to Haleigh and later hide her body?" I'm quite sure they had to ask her something like that during the first LDT, why wouldn't they? I wonder what was her answer (IMO, she would've said "NO" of course) but I wonder if that question showed deception? Could that be why LE is calling her the "KEY" because on that particular question or one similiar it showed she was telling the truth?

Just too mamy questions and not enough answers.

Of course they did... why else would they give her a LDT? Their goal was to find out who took or harmed Haleigh. Misty was admittedly the last known person to see her, she would be the first person they would want to polygraph.
They don't ask 2-part questions, btw. They would probably say something like, "Do you know what happened to Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is now? Are you responsible for Haleigh's disappearance? Do you know the person who took her? Did you do anything to hurt Haleigh?" I'm not sure if they would have asked her if she helped to hide her body in that first LDT, because they can't indicate that she was murdered without some proof that she is dead. LE was investigating an abduction at that point.... not a homicide.

 

[elle1919]

What were her questions? That is the question. JMO

She is telling too many stories, if she told the same story over and over and over....I put her to bed at 8:00, cuz that's her bedtime......then perhaps a failed lie detector might mean less.( to me) But the amount of stories she is telling, sheesh. The blankets, the brick, the cleaning, the washer, the spill on the shirt, the sleeping all day, the bus stop, the bad drugs, the four men, the dream like state, the rose in the woods, the guns, seriously. In my opinion someone that was sleeping by ten and woke up to go pee doesn't need to tell all these stories to deflect attention away from HERSELF.

Maybe she is a criminal mastermind, maybe she got angry and did something to Haleigh and dumped her in the river all by herself. I just don't know anymore.

 

[Donjeta]

I think she wouldn't be in jail now if she was a criminal mastermind... But I used to think it was possible that she lied because she was protecting someone. Now I'm more and more convinced that the reason her stories don't make sense and the reason she keeps flunking her polys is that she leaves out her own part in the whole. Maybe she would be able to pass a polygraph if she told them, "I, Misty Croslin Cummings, screwed up, and a child got hurt because of it." Dunno...

 

[Cicada]

What were her questions? That is the question. JMO

She is telling too many stories, if she told the same story over and over and over....I put her to bed at 8:00, cuz that's her bedtime......then perhaps a failed lie detector might mean less.( to me) But the amount of stories she is telling, sheesh. The blankets, the brick, the cleaning, the washer, the spill on the shirt, the sleeping all day, the bus stop, the bad drugs, the four men, the dream like state, the rose in the woods, the guns, seriously. In my opinion someone that was sleeping by ten and woke up to go pee doesn't need to tell all these stories to deflect attention away from HERSELF.

Maybe she is a criminal mastermind, maybe she got angry and did something to Haleigh and dumped her in the river all by herself. I just don't know anymore.

The thing that bothers me about the "dream state" is, originally, she told TJ Ward she didn't dream that night. It was only later in the LVA that she latched onto the dream excuse and recalled dreaming of 3 or 4 people. IMO, Misty listens close to what people around her says. If it sounds halfway probable, she claims it as her memory. She is a like a drowning girl who clutches anything to stay afloat for just a few more minutes. (jmo)

 

[suspicious1]

Of course they did... why else would they give her a LDT? Their goal was to find out who took or harmed Haleigh. Misty was admittedly the last known person to see her, she would be the first person they would want to polygraph.
They don't ask 2-part questions, btw. They would probably say something like, "Do you know what happened to Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is now? Are you responsible for Haleigh's disappearance? Do you know the person who took her? Did you do anything to hurt Haleigh?" I'm not sure if they would have asked her if she helped to hide her body in that first LDT, because they can't indicate that she was murdered without some proof that she is dead. LE was investigating an abduction at that point.... not a homicide.

First of all let me just tell you that I have never been in a situation that required me to take a polygraph so I don't know what kinds of questions they ask. Hopefully I am never put in a situation like that either. I state my opinions on here like everyone else...no harm in that, is it?

Have you ever had to take a polygraph?

 

[Whisperer]

I hate to say this but Lisa appears to be so weak as a mother that misty just ran the show. I was giving Lisa somewhat of a pass by she is too much of a big-time enabler. misty, another problem child with psych needs that were not addressed, was the one who got all of her family in a tissy and is still doing it. The poor little baby girl who all the big boys had to protect from the big bad world. She is still using this tactic. The men feel a great need to shelter her and they do the same with lisa. Hank is weak but has to pretend to be strong in front of his boys but when it comes down to it, I don't think he is going to get tough at all. This family is so weak and so sick in their dynamics that can't see the forest through the trees. I still don't see them in the same way as the Cummings (Sykes are crafty) but see them as a very tightly knit pack that sticks together to protect the girl baby, no matter what. This is not the first time misty has got in trouble, big time, and they family will not make her grow up. They thought marriage might do it and they might get a break...nope. She is a probllem child and it goes deeper than drugs and alcohol....they do not acknowlege her demons.

I suspect the misty called somebody about Haleigh that night. The first she would have called is whoever was with misty when this happened. If it were not family then she would have called that person and relayed what happened (if it were an accident)and then called her family. She is a chatterbox and would have begged for help just like she always does.

Ron and misty are still sitting in jail...not talking. Everyone knows misty has failed and will continue to fail a polygraph. Maybe rc should be stepping up to take one since he lived with her for a year, and most of that time his daughter was missing...not one peep out of him about polys. He made sure he told the world that he passes with "flying colors"..sure rc, I am sure those were the words used by FDLE. He also assured us the misty passed too.

Wanna bet rc never passid the poly at all? In fact I can't imagine him even taking one.

 

[Natal]

They take that into consideration, Natal. That's why they ask a series of control questions at first, to judge how the body reacts. If you are nervous or scared, that will show up in those first few questions. They look for distinctive reactions like the pulse jumping or skipping, the hands starting to sweat or shake, the rise in heart rate or B/P, things like that.
Misty should not have been scared or nervous, she had taken these tests before. There would be no reason to be scared if she was telling the truth.

There are two different kinds of controls in experiments, called positive and negative controls. While you can set up negative controls easily enough for a lie detector test, it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to set up a true positive control. Consequently the test is allways unreliable.

 

[Prancy]

I realize Misty has failed the polygraphs, but has LE obtained the opinon from professionals as to her body lanuage. I know NG has someone make general observations once in awhile, but why wouldn't LE get a very skilled pro to look at the various video clips of Misty denying that she knows anything and see what it reveals. Maybe they have and just have not released it.

Last weekend I saw a special called Secrets of Body Lanuage on the History channel. It was amazing!!!! They discussed, frame by frame, the indicators of lies from various famous people, Oswald, Susan Smith, Bill Clinton, and many more.

The experts could tell if there was contempt, fear, anger, etc. They said that experts with body lanuage knew immediately that Susan Smith was lying about her children being abducted. I wonder what Misty's body lanuage is saying. The way she does her lips a lot looks to me like contempt or disgust. I know I'm not an expert, but if you look at her mouth, it looks like contempt to me. Why is that.........?

 

[cyberborg]

In many ways Misty is so much like a version of Casey A, Misty has probably played this game all of her life ... to play 'poor me' the little helpless girl who gets into scrapes and never tells the truth, she just throws out a different version. She has been protected by her family and I don't think she has it in her to tell the truth.

I firmly believe even if Misty was presented with the facts, they had recovered HaLeigh and, knew what had occurred ... Misty would continue with fanciful fairy tales that point elsewhere.

Misty just wants the focus and the pressure off her and will say anything until folks go elsewhere. She is just trying to convince everyone that she is cooperating knowing full well it won't make any difference to the case and, Ron keeps his head down and out of it.

They have played this game for over a year now and it has worked very well, they are not about to change the game even if they find HaLeigh. A perfect crime? We know they did something but what?, who?, where?

 

[elle1919]

I realize Misty has failed the polygraphs, but has LE obtained the opinon from professionals as to her body lanuage. I know NG has someone make general observations once in awhile, but why wouldn't LE get a very skilled pro to look at the various video clips of Misty denying that she knows anything and see what it reveals. Maybe they have and just have not released it.

Last weekend I saw a special called Secrets of Body Lanuage on the History channel. It was amazing!!!! They discussed, frame by frame, the indicators of lies from various famous people, Oswald, Susan Smith, Bill Clinton, and many more.

The experts could tell if there was contempt, fear, anger, etc. They said that experts with body lanuage knew immediately that Susan Smith was lying about her children being abducted. I wonder what Misty's body lanuage is saying. The way she does her lips a lot looks to me like contempt or disgust. I know I'm not an expert, but if you look at her mouth, it looks like contempt to me. Why is that.........?

Dr Lillian Glass had a lot to say after seeing this interview with Misty on the Early show. I don't have to be an expert to know she is being deceitful. Check out the head shaking and the face scratching, these are all signs of deception. See what you think: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5378346n&tag=mncol;lst;2

 

[elle1919]

When she is asked if she is 100% certain she didn't know where Haleigh was and that she had nothing to do with Haleigh going missing she answers yes she is positive that she had nothing to do with it, but her head is shaking no from side to side. :waitasec:

 

[Donjeta]

It's really frustrating that you can have a babysitter/witness who lies left and right and standing up and everybody knows she's lying but the case is yet unsolved...

We'll all turn old and grey and meet here 20 years from now to discuss how Misty Croslin-Cummings flunked her 28945th polygraph. I'll buy the sodas.