2010.04.21 Do the police have enough evidence to rule this a homicide?

[raisincharlie]

This makes me think that there was all this movement on this case because of Lindsy, Steve Brown, Tommy, and Granny Hollars. How does that all connect?

Is it possible that Steve Brown (Crystal's PI) got to Lindsy, Lindsy provided some missing links, and then they figured this thing out? Lindsy confronted Tommy after the failed LDT, and then Tommy cracked.

Why do you think, of all the people on his list, Tommy called his Granny Hollar to tell her what he told her? Was she the only one with minutes that day? Did he call everyone or just Granny Hollar? Why did Granny Hollar hear from both Tommy & Misty within 15 minutes of eachother?

:waitasec:

Maybe Lindsy is the real tipster. Whoa!

I think Tommy wanted to point at Joe and he knew Misty would be calling GMa Hollars he wanted the message out about Joe and GMa inadvertantly relayed it to Misty when she called. I think Misty and Tommy figure if they say the same thing LE will believe them that Joe did it. Tommy calling GMa Hollers was both message for Misty and to point fingers at Joe. Somehow though, GMa Hollers after a few days now believes Misty killed Haleigh and I have to say, I agree with her about who and also why.

 

[Emeralgem]

This makes me think that there was all this movement on this case because of Lindsy, Steve Brown, Tommy, and Granny Hollars. How does that all connect?

Is it possible that Steve Brown (Crystal's PI) got to Lindsy, Lindsy provided some missing links, and then they figured this thing out? Lindsy confronted Tommy after the failed LDT, and then Tommy cracked.

Why do you think, of all the people on his list, Tommy called his Granny Hollar to tell her what he told her? Was she the only one with minutes that day? Did he call everyone or just Granny Hollar? Why did Granny Hollar hear from both Tommy & Misty within 15 minutes of eachother?

:waitasec:

Maybe Lindsy is the real tipster. Whoa!

BBM...Hi Emma, I m still working trying to figure that out.. I will say this IF Steve Brown believes Misty, Tommy, or cousin Jo are the ones who killed Haleigh, IMHO he has solved anything....Just my humble opinion..

 

[nnglas]

I mean really? I pray for justice for Haleigh and hope that there is closure in this case. However, how likely is that? I really don't quite get who originally tipped off police, Tommy or Misty? Didn't they both fail lie detector test? In Misty's case several times? They can't believe a word Misty is saying. I honestly don't see how Tommy is that credible or reliable. They would need to have some sort of corroborating evidence because a case can be made that they are all accomplices and they cannot rely on any of their words for a conviction. They have searched the van, the house, and so far none of Haleighs blood. So whatever method they chose probably left no evidence. What kind of evidence could they find in the river? Even if they find some of her remains in the river, what are the possibilities that there is still forensic evidence.

I don't know, I'm started to get really worried. However, I started worrying when they couldn't break the story of a 17 year old pill popper.

:twocents:

 

[elle1919]

Yes, I believe we will have several convictions but it will be a long, very long case. Perhaps longer than Casey Anthony's. I thought that one would be pretty cut and dry..

 

[raisincharlie]

I do believe there will be convictions in Haleighs case. I also believe LE has invested this much time, patience, and effort to absolutely insure there are convictions, but more importantly, correct convictions and they are simply not going to rush into court until they know the convictions can be made.

 

[TxLady2]

First things first. Let's get an indictment and worry about a conviction later.
Personally, I think we will see charges coming soon.
I also think more than one person will be implicated. JMO.

 

[debs]

We have Sheriff Hardy stating "Several persons of interest". That gives me hope they're tying up these strings of lies nicely.

 

[Donjeta]

The trial, if any, is going to be interesting. Save from LE, there's not going to be a single reliable witness they can call on the stand.

 

[cluciano63]

I think it will depend upon what the charges are; for first-degree murder, with a fair jury, I think they will have a hard time convicting. First-degree means intent to kill with some premeditation, as little as a few moments. But how can LE prove this? Especially if science cannot prove how she died.

I do think thet might be able to convict one or more people on causing Haleigh's death and tampering with evidence (!) and other related crimes. But I think it will take a combination of crimes, possibly along with drug charges already pending in some cases, to lock anyone away for life...

I am wondering...if with all of the word games played in this case by LE and suspects (excuse me, POI's)...LE saying they don't have Haleigh's body but have a homicide...do they have one tiny bone fragment? Have they said they do NOT have one tiny bone fragment? I have heard them say "remains not found" (plural) and "body not found"...

 

[TXangel]

I do believe there will be convictions in Haleighs case. I also believe LE has invested this much time, patience, and effort to absolutely insure there are convictions, but more importantly, correct convictions and they are simply not going to rush into court until they know the convictions can be made.

I agree absolutely. They're not going to want to leave room for error, or even reasonable doubt.

 

[Emma Peel]

The trial, if any, is going to be interesting. Save from LE, there's not going to be a single reliable witness they can call on the stand.

Donjeta, that just struck me as very funny. :floorlaugh:
Also sad. :cry:

But how true.

Maybe reliable folks from PDM, the bus driver, and from school. The AC guy (if there was one) and GGMS's laundry visit companion (if there was one). Timeline points directly to Misty & Tommy who (IIRC) are the only two who admit being @ the MH after 10 pm and before Ron's arrival home.

They really need physical evidence. Phone records. Timelines. Good grief. I hope they've got more than cinder blocks from a public boating pier to go on.

If only there was some precedent that if you fail enough LDT's you're presumed guilty. :crazy:

 

[cyberborg]

Depending on 'who' LE indicts first there could be an interesting domino collapse as they seek to save themselves (as best they can) and implicate the others. LE needs to pick the weakest link IMO and actually charge them ... the result will be priceless. At the moment they are jostling for position and offering minimal details.

If they collapse and offer testimony against others to mitigate or bring them down as well then there would be a stronger case to convict on. LE are gathering as much as they can before they swoop to validate claims.

 

[Kat]

I think it will depend upon what the charges are; for first-degree murder, with a fair jury, I think they will have a hard time convicting. First-degree means intent to kill with some premeditation, as little as a few moments. But how can LE prove this? Especially if science cannot prove how she died.

I do think thet might be able to convict one or more people on causing Haleigh's death and tampering with evidence (!) and other related crimes. But I think it will take a combination of crimes, possibly along with drug charges already pending in some cases, to lock anyone away for life...

I am wondering...if with all of the word games played in this case by LE and suspects (excuse me, POI's)...LE saying they don't have Haleigh's body but have a homicide...do they have one tiny bone fragment? Have they said they do NOT have one tiny bone fragment? I have heard them say "remains not found" (plural) and "body not found"...

Hi cluciano, I agree that more than likely, if what we know is accurate then LE doesn't much in the way of evidentiary value.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that they are slowly piling up evidence and just not letting the media know what they have or what they have found so far.

The investigation is still ongoing so there is no way for us to anticipate what they have yet to find. JMHO.

However, I know that it's an extremely difficult for a state to prosecute for 1st degree Murder without a body but it can be done.

I remember this case, ( a very short snip of info in article)

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/04/reiser-guilty-o/

...
In a murder case with no body, no crime scene, no reliable eyewitness and virtually no physical evidence, the prosecution began the trial last November... presented mostly circumstantial evidence

Read More http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/04/reiser-guilty-o/#ixzz0lxMQHuQG

The man above was convicted of that charges. There are other cases but I cant' recall offhand the names of the victims or defendents.

Since we don't have an indictment as of yet I'll have withhold my opinion because I just don't have enough info to speculate but it is my understanding that because of FL statute MC if charged would not face the DP because of her age at the time of the crime(s). If it comes to unfold that she is charged with 1st degree murder (again depending on what evidence is already there and what might be found in the future) she could be prosecuted and that conviction would be much more easily won given that the DP isn't going to be on the table. all just my humble opinion.

Also IMHO, and is not supported by previous cases or trials. Any of the individual(s) they indict in the future could all possibly face a 1st degree murder charge because the cover-up and the behaviors exhibited by all the players (again we don't know which ones are going to be indicted) by refusing (as far as we know as of right now) to speak for all this time. Indicates to me IMHO that there is a reason that location of Haleigh's body is still being withheld. Her body probably shows she was murdered (JMHO!).

To keep with the OP's question, I truly believe in our justice system and I also believe that LE at the PCSO wants justice for Haleigh so I do think that there will be prosecution and conviction in this case at the end of the day.

All just my humble opinions above

 

[txsvicki]

There's already enough to convict Misty and Tommy on at least some charges due to their confessions. For both of them to claim that they didn't kill anyone they sure seem the most desperate to cover everything up and seem the most guilty. I can't see how there's enough evidence to convict or indict Joe on anything.

 

[faefrost]

I'm betting we will see plea deals and it will never get to trial. Not unless there is some earthshattering evidence of something truly horrific done to the child. It is unlikely that any capital murder charges can be brought, so it will be some variant of 2nd degree or manslaughter. Given the current seperate charges it is unlikely any will be seeing the outside before they are needing a geriatric specialist. The SA will offer the best deal to whoever sings credibly and cops a plea first. he will offer deals to whoever is left, and he will toss the lot of them away without having to seperate who did exactly what before a jury. I can't see any of these folks pulling a super magical dream team of high powered lawyers out of nowhere either.

 

[butterfly1978]

I hate to say it but there may never be an arrest or conviction,the drug charges may be the best LE can do and I will explain why. A friend of mine was murdered 6 years ago, it is pretty obvious as far as I'm concerned and I beleive LE to who is responsible for the murder. The guy was caught and arrested after an investigation for selling many of my friends guns, that LE were aware of the guns being missing as result of my friends murder. The guy worked for my friend and he tried selling the guns to an under cover informant 6 months later and wanted the rest of the guns hid. However the guy has not and may never be arrested for my friends murder, even though its obvious he is responsible. Motive being the guns, means, he worked for my friend and he also tried to hide the gun He was convicted on the gun charges and I beleive is serving 5 years. I spoke to LE not to long ago about my frustrations and told them I felt this was a cold case, she informed me that it is equally as frustrating for LE but even though you in your heart know who is responsible and may even have some evidence, you have to have more than an idea of who is responsible and a few pieces of evidence to make an arrest and a conviction stick, that sometimes you have to just go with whatever you can get the person on and hope that later on there will be more to bring additional charges.
You can read the about the murder and gun charges here, in my opinion they had enough to charge him:
http://http://www.websupp.org/data/MDAL/2:04-cr-00240-118-MDAL.pdf


Haleighs case sounds so much like this and it is so aggravating. I pray that they will have enough to charge someone and convict, but they may not, that might be why they are going after them so hard on the drug charges. It is very possable that the three in jail are the three LE beleive are responsible.

 

[Coldpizza]

The trial, if any, is going to be interesting. Save from LE, there's not going to be a single reliable witness they can call on the stand.

OMG what a true statement that is

 

[Coldpizza]

I hate to say it but there may never be an arrest or conviction,the drug charges may be the best LE can do and I will explain why. A friend of mine was murdered 6 years ago, it is pretty obvious as far as I'm concerned and I beleive LE to who is responsible for the murder. The guy was caught and arrested after an investigation for selling many of my friends guns, that LE were aware of the guns being missing as result of my friends murder. The guy worked for my friend and he tried selling the guns to an under cover informant 6 months later and wanted the rest of the guns hid. However the guy has not and may never be arrested for my friends murder, even though its obvious he is responsible. Motive being the guns, means, he worked for my friend and he also tried to hide the gun He was convicted on the gun charges and I beleive is serving 5 years. I spoke to LE not to long ago about my frustrations and told them I felt this was a cold case, she informed me that it is equally as frustrating for LE but even though you in your heart know who is responsible and may even have some evidence, you have to have more than an idea of who is responsible and a few pieces of evidence to make an arrest and a conviction stick, that sometimes you have to just go with whatever you can get the person on and hope that later on there will be more to bring additional charges.
You can read the about the murder and gun charges here, in my opinion they had enough to charge him:
http://http://www.websupp.org/data/MDAL/2:04-cr-00240-118-MDAL.pdf


Haleighs case sounds so much like this and it is so aggravating. I pray that they will have enough to charge someone and convict, but they may not, that might be why they are going after them so hard on the drug charges. It is very possable that the three in jail are the three LE beleive are responsible.

Thanks for sharing butterfly, I'm so sorry about your friend. Sometimes justice isn't served but Karma, full circle and meet your maker all come to mind.

 

[1Chump]

I think they will get several convictions in this case and/or pleas. I think LE learned from the Casey Anthony case to hold all their cards close to the vest, not announce a suspect or give out info to muddy the waters.

We have no idea what LE knows or doesn't know. All we seem to really know from them is they are "satisfied."

 

[CedarvilleGrad]

I'm quite certain this is the improper location to pose this question and a new thread may be the best place, however, what are everyone's thoughts on motive?

I'm new to the case and have spend the last few days and nights reading as much as I can on it, as heart-breaking as it is, but just wonder the mostly the why when considering the who/what/when/where/why/how... TIA