2010.06.19 ~ Kyron Horman's Blended Family

[Dee10]

Thank you for your thoughtful response, I certainly appreciate & will have to gel or ponder on (honestly IDK). You mentioned it will take time to "rake Terri over the coals" another person mentioned (last night) because Terri went to the gym people were calling "her a murderer", that is not happening here that I have read. I see it as, understandably people have unanswered questions, given the last person to see Kyron, then you add in "the other aspects". Until that changes...there will be that question IMO, not casting blame; I just think that is the way it will be...justified speculation.

I am following the classifying by LE on this case: Missing Endangered (hasn't changed, but says a whole lot given this juncture). I think they (LE) are being honest, even though they are keeping things close to the vest. I have no agenda, we all just want Kyron found. When LE classifies this case different; I will change my opinion, but right now...I am following LE. You have your opinion/I have mine, but I do value your posts Ocean.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Hi Oceanblueeyes, I get what you are saying they are human with past problems like a lot of divorces bring as you said. But, these other divorcees are not missing children, so we have to focus on this family, no? I really like reading your posts as they make me think of the other possibilities.

I am not as sure as you this article doesn't bring up possible issues. I am going to add in the last article (regarding history) into my thoughts that includes the DUI, beginning relationship, SM is on 3rd marriage; not even including the FB debate, let alone what LE is telling us; Kryron is Missing/Endangered, no abduction classification.

I don't want to have suspicions about SM, but she was the last person to see him and what would raise a red flag??? I ask seriously. I understand we don't want to vilify someone, but on the other hand do you want to defend a possible suspect??? Not sure where anyone (myself included) draws the line...just food for thought. It is possible the past "is" relevant in finding Kyron. We all want the Kyron found and the right person found & held to justice. But most importantly we need Kyron to be found and SM "could" be the answer or could provide clues. IMO LE is telling everyone the facts; Endangered Missing; otherwise they would say Abduction.

BBM. Not only is it possible that the past is relevant in finding Kyron, it is hugely probable. Investigations begin with the victim. Who are the people in his life? What were those relationships like? Where were those people and what were they doing in the days/weeks prior to the crime? What were their relationships with each other like? Who had a grudge against who? And so on.

The family dynamics in this case are a mess - and from the looks of it, have been a mess for a couple of generations. People pooh-pooh the family dynamics in this case and try to "normalize" them, but no it is not "normal" to have numerous marriages and divorces and children shuffling between homes and parents and grandparents. These are people with a history of failed relationships, which tells me they either have poor judgment in choosing partners or have poor relationship skills that prevent them from forming life-long solid relationships with their spouses and children. So yes, when one of these children disappears it is absolutely relevant to investigate the child's immediate and past relationships with these people and the relationships among them. It's very likely the answer will be found there.

IMO and all that.

 

[Donjeta]

I imagine that the likelihood of stranger SO's snatching random children from divorced/blended/troubled families in the middle of a normal day at school is pretty much the same as the likelihood of stranger SO's snatching random children from perfectly adjusted nuclear families attending the same school.

But I also imagine that the likelihood of a family member or an associate of the family targeting a specific child increases or decreases dramatically depending on the severity of generational dysfunction, abuse problems, parental conflicts, past and present relationship conflicts etc. in the family

:cow:

 

[glorybug]

The only thing I have learned about following these cases is that while there might be 'norms' about how they usually are committed, there are too many variables to armchair sleuth without facts.

Honestly- name ONE sleuthing person who correctly identified Sandra Cantu's killer as being a church-involved woman? NONE. Partly because LE did not release facts.

When there are no facts released, and I read people's 'guesses', it really makes me aware of how much people really just don't like stepmothers. I am not one, and have never had one, and based on how people perceive them, I am sure glad I have no experience in that regard. I'm especially glad I'm not one.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Hi Oceanblueeyes, I get what you are saying they are human with past problems like a lot of divorces bring as you said. But, these other divorcees are not missing children, so we have to focus on this family, no? I really like reading your posts as they make me think of the other possibilities.

I am not as sure as you this article doesn't bring up possible issues. I am going to add in the last article (regarding history) into my thoughts that includes the DUI, beginning relationship, SM is on 3rd marriage; not even including the FB debate, let alone what LE is telling us; Kryron is Missing/Endangered, no abduction classification.

I don't want to have suspicions about SM, but she was the last person to see him and what would raise a red flag??? I ask seriously. I understand we don't want to vilify someone, but on the other hand do you want to defend a possible suspect??? Not sure where anyone (myself included) draws the line...just food for thought. It is possible the past "is" relevant in finding Kyron. We all want the Kyron found and the right person found & held to justice. But most importantly we need Kyron to be found and SM "could" be the answer or could provide clues. IMO LE is telling everyone the facts; Endangered Missing; otherwise they would say Abduction.

BBM

I cannot speak for oceanblueeyes and she does a better job of it than I could anyway.

So far as I am concerned, I am not terribly worried about defending someone who may later be named as a suspect by LE. No harm will come of defending someone who later turns out to be a suspect but great harm could be done by vilifying someone who later turns out to be innocent.

That bell cannot be unrung.

 

[glorybug]

People have been having messed up and dysfunctional family relationships since people have been able to record history.

Divorce as we know it is relatively new, probably because marriage as we define it now is fairly new. Any history buff will be able to regale you with tons of twisted stories of families gone awry way before our current state of divorces and blended families. I suggest you look into egytian history- who married who (cousins, siblings, parent/child etc.) for starters. That was way before we began institutionalized marriage and divorce. Also, look at their murder rate, and who was murdering who. There might have been less incidences of step-parenting back then (and even in early American history) because of the early death rates. Convenient that when your spouse died there was no step involved.

Plenty of people convicted of rape/molestation of their own children who were never divorced/remarried. Plenty of people who murdered strangers or their own family members have no background in divorce/remarriage.

I call red herring. People who will molest, will. People who will murder, will. The percentage of people who have grown up in abusive/molestive homes who never go on to harm others is proof of that.

I'd like to know when this supposed 'normal' period existed, because I don't think it ever has, other than fake eye candy.

Even if it ever did, it might make sense to understand that "abnormal" is the new (never existing) "normal" as far as families go.

I'd also like to know how this judgemental attitude helps in any way in finding Kyron Horman.

BBM. Not only is it possible that the past is relevant in finding Kyron, it is hugely probable. Investigations begin with the victim. Who are the people in his life? What were those relationships like? Where were those people and what were they doing in the days/weeks prior to the crime? What were their relationships with each other like? Who had a grudge against who? And so on.

The family dynamics in this case are a mess - and from the looks of it, have been a mess for a couple of generations. People pooh-pooh the family dynamics in this case and try to "normalize" them, but no it is not "normal" to have numerous marriages and divorces and children shuffling between homes and parents and grandparents. These are people with a history of failed relationships, which tells me they either have poor judgment in choosing partners or have poor relationship skills that prevent them from forming life-long solid relationships with their spouses and children. So yes, when one of these children disappears it is absolutely relevant to investigate the child's immediate and past relationships with these people and the relationships among them. It's very likely the answer will be found there.

IMO and all that.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The only thing I have learned about following these cases is that while there might be 'norms' about how they usually are committed, there are too many variables to armchair sleuth without facts.

Honestly- name ONE sleuthing person who correctly identified Sandra Cantu's killer as being a church-involved woman? NONE. Partly because LE did not release facts.

When there are no facts released, and I read people's 'guesses', it really makes me aware of how much people really just don't like stepmothers. I am not one, and have never had one, and based on how people perceive them, I am sure glad I have no experience in that regard. I'm especially glad I'm not one.

Glorybug, I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm also made aware that many people view adult survivors of child sexual assault as highly likely to sexually assault children.

My own bias is that I was raped when I was 12 years old. It was not something I chose, it was not something I wanted, it was something that was forced on me in a horrible way.

Discussions like these make me realise once again that people like me will forever be considered suspicious by some. I will forever be suspected of being more likely to sexually assault a child because of a past that I had and have no control over.

It is an ignorant and outdated theory:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/gg96178.pdf

but many people still believe that someone who was sexually assaulted as a child is more likely to commit sexual assault as an adult.

 

[Donjeta]

If there is a hint of family history of molestation but no further information it raises the question about whether the original molester or some of his like-minded friends are still alive and involved with the new generation of children, even if we don't suspect their victims of anything. IMO.

I don't want to cast any shadow over anybody because I've no idea if the uncle's story is true or if the person he blamed is even alive today but if there is such a suspect in the family it might explain why they wanted to keep a low profile in the media.

 

[glorybug]

I disagree about the assumption that the biodad was not abusive and the proof being that biomom did not go back to court.

I am going in on Friday to file for modified custody with my ex. I consider him to be extremely NPD, verbally, mentally, emotionally and financially abusive towards me and our children. It has taken me 4 years to get up the nerve to go to court BECAUSE of that. Because of what I know he will do to me and our children because of it.

I had a restraining order against him at one time. That was because the 3 other times I called the police to our residence they did not even file reports. On this occasion, he was acting psycho, claiming myself and my girlfriend were lesbians, and claiming that we were in a conspiracy with George Bush against him. Nothing happened to him other than being told to leave the premises and not come back. He makes a LOT of money, and based on the payback I have gotten for that for 4 years, I have been reluctant to file against him. I'm just going to go ahead and do it now and hold my breath.

My point is, I don't know why the RO in this case was not renewed, and it might likely have been because it was just standard procedure. On the other hand, it might also have been what would be called standard procedure in abusive situations. We won't know until the facts come out. Not extending the RO means nothing other than it might be that the person was not abusive, or that they were so abusive that the person was afraid to continue the order. You get my point?

'

I don't think the article was harmful to any of the family. Shows they are human with past problems like a lot of divorces bring.

I am sure we all know how custody issues and divorces can go and I know several that got an injunction so that the children couldn't be taken without the other one's permission. It is standard that the Judge will apply it to both parents unless there is some reason why they shouldnt and that is usually due to abuse but there is nothing mentioning abuse by KH. In her divorce she just cited irreconcilable differences. The Judge stipulated both parties in his order.

And she sure had to think Kaine was not an abusive man or she would have gone back to court getting full custody of Kyron and that didn't happen and he has been in Kaine's care for years now.

What exes did 6 years ago when much time has past now is not relevant to finding Kyron, imo.

Guess it is a slow news day for WW since LE isn't talking so they start peering into the family's personal past lives years ago.

IMO

 

[For The Kids]

The only thing I have learned about following these cases is that while there might be 'norms' about how they usually are committed, there are too many variables to armchair sleuth without facts.

Honestly- name ONE sleuthing person who correctly identified Sandra Cantu's killer as being a church-involved woman? NONE. Partly because LE did not release facts.

When there are no facts released, and I read people's 'guesses', it really makes me aware of how much people really just don't like stepmothers. I am not one, and have never had one, and based on how people perceive them, I am sure glad I have no experience in that regard. I'm especially glad I'm not one.

I am a Step mother to a 16 and 19 year old and have been part of there lives for 8 years or so now. While I admit some posts on here have annoyed me what they have said about step mothers..that doesnt even remotely make me think a step mother couldnt hurt their step child. From being a Step mother to a child with adhd i can understand the problems faced by a step mother with regard to the child and the problems faced with the non custodial mother. What I cant understand personally if...if a step parent loves there partner how they can possibly hurt or kill the child that the partner helped to create and loves.

I really do not think in this case that people think Terri harmed Kyron because she is a step mother. Its for other reasons that have nothing to do with her being a step parent whatsoever..

JMO

 

[passionflower]

At Kyron's age, he could of been a pawn between mom/dad (bio's)
If he did have ADHD.....there are meltdowns.
Could he of said "you aren't my mom and I don't have to do it?"
SM got frustrated? Was bio dad a hands on dad? or just there?
Was all the pressure on sm?
Where was bio dad that day? night before?
Where could Kyron be????

 

[sofia76]

I wouldn't say that having a dysfunctional family history means that Kyron was definitely abducted by someone in his family. I do agree with others who have alluded to the idea that dysfunctional or shifting/altering families can create a lot of opportunity for a child to be targeted for abuse or violence. Total random stranger abduction aside, a large number of abuse/murder cases occur because the parents are overwhelmed, ill-prepared, have anger management issues, are desperate for love or money, have poor decision making skills, are just plain dumb, etc.

Some kids are more at-risk than others specifically because of family dynamics. Case in point: Ashley Pond. I would add Caylee Anthony to that list. It's a very long list.

That being said, I've never thought of Kyron as being at-risk. I'm curious to know why some are of the opinion that he was a good or perfect "candidate" for a predator.

 

[watchful_eye]

I do agree with others who have alluded to the idea that dysfunctional or shifting/altering families can create a lot of opportunity for a child to be targeted for abuse or violence. Total random stranger abduction aside, a large number of abuse/murder cases occur because the parents are overwhelmed, ill-prepared, have anger management issues, are desperate for love or money, have poor decision making skills, are just plain dumb, etc.

I agree.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you for your thoughtful response, I certainly appreciate & will have to gel or ponder on (honestly IDK). You mentioned it will take time to "rake Terri over the coals" another person mentioned (last night) because Terri went to the gym people were calling "her a murderer", that is not happening here that I have read. I see it as, understandably people have unanswered questions, given the last person to see Kyron, then you add in "the other aspects". Until that changes...there will be that question IMO, not casting blame; I just think that is the way it will be...justified speculation.

I am following the classifying by LE on this case: Missing Endangered (hasn't changed, but says a whole lot given this juncture). I think they (LE) are being honest, even though they are keeping things close to the vest. I have no agenda, we all just want Kyron found. When LE classifies this case different; I will change my opinion, but right now...I am following LE. You have your opinion/I have mine, but I do value your posts Ocean.

I think all of our hearts are in the right place Dee. We all want Kyron to be found and whomever did this to him I certainly want them to pay dearly for that. I am very hard nosed on parents who murder their children.

I do perfectly understand why Terri is the target of speculation here and everyone has a right to voice those opinions.

I guess prior cases in recent years have made me a little skittish and I use more caution now but that is just the way I have chosen to govern my own posts and certainly understand when others post their own points of view.

I hope and pray for Kyron's sake Terri isn't the one who harmed him but if she did do this then imo she should receive the death penalty.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I disagree about the assumption that the biodad was not abusive and the proof being that biomom did not go back to court.

I am going in on Friday to file for modified custody with my ex. I consider him to be extremely NPD, verbally, mentally, emotionally and financially abusive towards me and our children. It has taken me 4 years to get up the nerve to go to court BECAUSE of that. Because of what I know he will do to me and our children because of it.

I had a restraining order against him at one time. That was because the 3 other times I called the police to our residence they did not even file reports. On this occasion, he was acting psycho, claiming myself and my girlfriend were lesbians, and claiming that we were in a conspiracy with George Bush against him. Nothing happened to him other than being told to leave the premises and not come back. He makes a LOT of money, and based on the payback I have gotten for that for 4 years, I have been reluctant to file against him. I'm just going to go ahead and do it now and hold my breath.

My point is, I don't know why the RO in this case was not renewed, and it might likely have been because it was just standard procedure. On the other hand, it might also have been what would be called standard procedure in abusive situations. We won't know until the facts come out. Not extending the RO means nothing other than it might be that the person was not abusive, or that they were so abusive that the person was afraid to continue the order. You get my point?

'

I do get your point. Unfortunately I have been there, done that, with my ex which thankfully was 29 years ago.

But the RO wasnt for violence. It was only because she wanted to make sure that Kaine did not remove the children from the home without her consent. I just do not think the Judge would have stipulated that both of them must abide by the order if Kaine was violent.

It was to "restrain" them from taking the children without each other's consent.

IMO

 

[tlcya]

Glorybug, I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm also made aware that many people view adult survivors of child sexual assault as highly likely to sexually assault children.

My own bias is that I was raped when I was 12 years old. It was not something I chose, it was not something I wanted, it was something that was forced on me in a horrible way.

Discussions like these make me realise once again that people like me will forever be considered suspicious by some. I will forever be suspected of being more likely to sexually assault a child because of a past that I had and have no control over.

It is an ignorant and outdated theory:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/gg96178.pdf

but many people still believe that someone who was sexually assaulted as a child is more likely to commit sexual assault as an adult.

Hello Grainne. I have a great deal of respect of your posts and opinions. Hugs to you and I am sorry about your experience. I feel that repeated abuse suffered by minors by a trusted adult increases the possibility that as an adult, that victim may victimize. I believe a lot of factors go into whether that is a likely ocurrence or not.

Did the victim recieve intensive counseling? Does the victim have a well formed and healthy sense of self? etc etc. Victims who do not go on to victimize are usually the ones who have processed their abuse and are of sound mind. Those that do not get help putting the abuse into perspective, who have low self esteem, limited coping mechanisms, etc. are more likely to fall into the abused becomes abuser category.

But I know what you mean about living under the cloud of that assumption that because you sexually asaulted that you must somehow be damaged and a likely future perp. Generalizations suck for just that reason.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

I cannot speak for oceanblueeyes and she does a better job of it than I could anyway.

So far as I am concerned, I am not terribly worried about defending someone who may later be named as a suspect by LE. No harm will come of defending someone who later turns out to be a suspect but great harm could be done by vilifying someone who later turns out to be innocent.

That bell cannot be unrung.

You spoke for me very well GrannieDhu. Thank you for understanding what I am trying hard to convey.

IMO

 

[Trident]

I disagree about the assumption that the biodad was not abusive and the proof being that biomom did not go back to court.

I am going in on Friday to file for modified custody with my ex. I consider him to be extremely NPD, verbally, mentally, emotionally and financially abusive towards me and our children. It has taken me 4 years to get up the nerve to go to court BECAUSE of that. Because of what I know he will do to me and our children because of it.

I had a restraining order against him at one time. That was because the 3 other times I called the police to our residence they did not even file reports. On this occasion, he was acting psycho, claiming myself and my girlfriend were lesbians, and claiming that we were in a conspiracy with George Bush against him. Nothing happened to him other than being told to leave the premises and not come back. He makes a LOT of money, and based on the payback I have gotten for that for 4 years, I have been reluctant to file against him. I'm just going to go ahead and do it now and hold my breath.

My point is, I don't know why the RO in this case was not renewed, and it might likely have been because it was just standard procedure. On the other hand, it might also have been what would be called standard procedure in abusive situations. We won't know until the facts come out. Not extending the RO means nothing other than it might be that the person was not abusive, or that they were so abusive that the person was afraid to continue the order. You get my point?
'

BBM, OR it could mean she was too busy fighting for her own life, picture kidney failure, to be able to fight him. At that point, KH possibly had Kyron in his care or soon would have.

I've also been in a few abusive situations, and I believe most women have, but I further believe there isn't any quick answer to WHY one woman does one thing about it, another takes a different route, and another does nothing.

I don't know KH was abusive, but I'm thinking he may have been verballly abusive as in, "I'm going to take the kids," cause that's a common ploy to strike fear in the heart and get the little lady to see things "his" way.

I see so much potential here for abuse among ALL the players, it's mind boogling.

My opinion only

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Glorybug, I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm also made aware that many people view adult survivors of child sexual assault as highly likely to sexually assault children.

My own bias is that I was raped when I was 12 years old. It was not something I chose, it was not something I wanted, it was something that was forced on me in a horrible way.

Discussions like these make me realise once again that people like me will forever be considered suspicious by some. I will forever be suspected of being more likely to sexually assault a child because of a past that I had and have no control over.

It is an ignorant and outdated theory:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/gg96178.pdf

but many people still believe that someone who was sexually assaulted as a child is more likely to commit sexual assault as an adult.

I feel your pain and I also feel your frustration because I am one like you. I call them myths that have been put out in society for so long without really delving into the truth.

Causal factors
Causal factors of child sex offenders are not known conclusively.[104] The experience of sexual abuse as a child was previously thought to be a strong risk factor, but research does not show a causal relationship, as the vast majority of sexually abused children do not grow up to be adult offenders, nor do the majority of adult offenders report childhood sexual abuse.

The US Government Accountability Office concluded, "the existence of a cycle of sexual abuse was not established." Prior to 1996, there was greater belief in the theory of a "cycle of violence," because most of the research done was retrospective—abusers were asked if they had experienced past abuse. Even the majority of studies found that most adult sex offenders said they had not been sexually abused during childhood, but studies varied in terms of their estimates of the percentage of such offenders who had been abused, from 0 to 79 percent.

More recent prospective longitudinal research—studying children with documented cases of sexual abuse over time to determine what percentage become adult offenders—has demonstrated that the cycle of violence theory is not an adequate explanation for why people molest children.[105]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#Causal_factors

References- there many linked references to show the research that has been done.

IMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

Hello Grainne. I have a great deal of respect of your posts and opinions. Hugs to you and I am sorry about your experience. I feel that repeated abuse suffered by minors by a trusted adult increases the possibility that as an adult, that victim may victimize. I believe a lot of factors go into whether that is a likely ocurrence or not.

From the link at:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/gg96178.pdf

In addition, the majority of
retrospective studies concluded that most adult sex offenders against
children did not report that they were sexually victimized as children.

Therefore, childhood sexual victimization would probably not be sufficient
to explain adult sexual offending. While some studies indicated that sexual
victimization in childhood may increase the risk that victims will become
sexual offenders as adults, other studies found that many other conditions
and experiences might also be associated with an increased risk. For
example, one prospective study we reviewed found that children who
were neglected were even more likely than children who were sexually
abused to commit sex offenses as adults.

You wrote:

Did the victim recieve intensive counseling? Does the victim have a well formed and healthy sense of self? etc etc. Victims who do not go on to victimize are usually the ones who have processed their abuse and are of sound mind. Those that do not get help putting the abuse into perspective, who have low self esteem, limited coping mechanisms, etc. are more likely to fall into the abused becomes abuser category.

I told no one what had happened to me for seven years. Very, very gradually, as I came to feel safer and to trust others, I became more comfortable with discussing what had happened to me.

I don't know if I had a healthy sense of self when I was raped or not. I know I believed every word the perpetrator told me for many years; that is why I didn't talk about what had happened. Had I disbelieved him, it would have been much easier.

I think I now have normal self esteem but I spent years in the pits of low self esteem. My ability to cope is not great; my usual coping mechanism is to just keep doing what I'm doing. Try harder and all that. It leads me into trouble when giving up would be the rational solution.

And yet... I have never abused a child. The thought is repellent to me. As repellent, I believe, as it is to any normal adult human being, no matter what their history.

But I know what you mean about living under the cloud of that assumption that because you sexually asaulted that you must somehow be damaged and a likely future perp. Generalizations suck for just that reason.

Aaaaa, that "oh, she gets it" feeling! Thank you! It means a lot to me and I say it seriously.

What is infuriating about that suspicion is that it makes me feel like my perpetrator has turned a whole bunch of people into his allies.