2010.07.02 Actual Emergency Hearing Thread

[faefrost]

Sots, great points made and I agree with everything you said, except the portion I bolded. I have given him the benefit of the doubt since the beginning, but for me, I have enough info and it scares me. I do think he is inadequate counsel to be defending anyone in a case of this magnitude. Not to be a total snark, but I really wouldn't let him defend me in traffic court. And, I mean that.

Today was the final straw for me. I could not believe some of the things I heard roll out of his mouth. Many you referenced in an earlier post. I am still totally aghast that he mentioned the Phil Spector trial. I can't think of anything he should have known w/o a doubt to stay as far away from more than referencing the trial where Henry Lee's reputation was destroyed because it was proven that he tampered with evidence. Considering the very issue that was at the heart of this motion, it is just mind boggling. I am almost stuttering as bad as JB while trying to type this out. I am actually more concerned today than I have ever been in re. KC's shot at an appeal for ineffective counsel. AL is gone. CM's crazy presser after the last status hearing certainly adds no comfort, it is clear he doesn't have a clue. And, JB? oh my... I'm holding out hope in re. LKB.

I don't know. So much was strange. Casey's demeanor today...it took them forever to get her into court and she was very different today. It struck me like no other time. She CLEARLY did NOT want to be there. Her emotions appeared sincere. She appeared to barely be able to hold it together today. So, if she was truly upset, then I have to believe it has to do with HERSELF. Because nothing would evoke those kind of emotions in her, if whatever it was didn't affect KC personally. Something is going on. I just haven't quite figured out exactly what it is yet... It is obvious there is major discord within the defense team. All kind of things are running through my mind. It could be as simple has she was self-conscious about her chipped tooth (has it been repaired?) or could be as complicated as her defense attorneys had a 'Come-to-meet-Jesus' talk with her and she didn't take it well. I'm still processing it all. Even JB's demeanor seemed more depressing to me today.

I just know that if he ends up arguing solo on July 15th against Mark NeJame, I don't know that I have the stomach to watch it. And, I LOVE MN...I was looking forward to it. But, I am not big on watching massacres, either. lol

Given that she apparently has not met with her attorneys in some time, I almost wonder if the reality of AL departing did not become completely clear to her until today. That hit of "they're not going to give her unlimited funding to do whatever she wants." And lets not forget that this "emergency hearing" was probably dropped on her with the same suddenness as the SA and the public. And we know how much she loves appearing at these hearings.

 

[LambChop]

I not sure KC even received all of those letters. The jail opens them and then decides which ones the inmate gets. Some of those letters might not have made it though.

But I also thought in the beginning something was said about Baez saying he wanted to review all her letters prior to KC getting them. I remember us discussing whether or not this was possible, anyone know if this review was ever enacted? If it was then he has seen them all too before.

KC talks about some of these letters she has received in her letters to the other inmate so I would think they were given to her. Whatever we have seen I think KC received. The apparent defense at this point is SODDI so for JB not to be interested in the mail she has been receiving all along is his incompetence, not SA's for releasing them. If the defense is SODDI they could be relevant.....more so than the TES records....... The fact that he was NOT interested in what type of mail she received pretty much points to the fact they know there is no other suspect. Why read these letters if you know KC is the one who committed the crime. By SA releasing them we are now all aware of JB's disinterest. Talk about being caught with your britches down. So all this time working on the SODDI defense is out the window I would imagine and now back to the drawing board. Oh, Casey-O-Marie what did that "blood" money pay for. jmo

 

[sleutherontheside]

Sots, great points made and I agree with everything you said, except the portion I bolded. I have given him the benefit of the doubt since the beginning, but for me, I have enough info and it scares me. I do think he is inadequate counsel to be defending anyone in a case of this magnitude. Not to be a total snark, but I really wouldn't let him defend me in traffic court. And, I mean that.

Today was the final straw for me. I could not believe some of the things I heard roll out of his mouth. Many you referenced in an earlier post. I am still totally aghast that he mentioned the Phil Spector trial. I can't think of anything he should have known w/o a doubt to stay as far away from more than referencing the trial where Henry Lee's reputation was destroyed because it was proven that he tampered with evidence. Considering the very issue that was at the heart of this motion, it is just mind boggling. I am almost stuttering as bad as JB while trying to type this out. I am actually more concerned today than I have ever been in re. KC's shot at an appeal for ineffective counsel. AL is gone. CM's crazy presser after the last status hearing certainly adds no comfort, it is clear he doesn't have a clue. And, JB? oh my... I'm holding out hope in re. LKB.

I don't know. So much was strange. Casey's demeanor today...it took them forever to get her into court and she was very different today. It struck me like no other time. She CLEARLY did NOT want to be there. Her emotions appeared sincere. She appeared to barely be able to hold it together today. So, if she was truly upset, then I have to believe it has to do with HERSELF. Because nothing would evoke those kind of emotions in her, if whatever it was didn't affect KC personally. Something is going on. I just haven't quite figured out exactly what it is yet... It is obvious there is major discord within the defense team. All kind of things are running through my mind. It could be as simple has she was self-conscious about her chipped tooth (has it been repaired?) or could be as complicated as her defense attorneys had a 'Come-to-meet-Jesus' talk with her and she didn't take it well. I'm still processing it all. Even JB's demeanor seemed more depressing to me today.

I just know that if he ends up arguing solo on July 15th against Mark NeJame, I don't know that I have the stomach to watch it. And, I LOVE MN...I was looking forward to it. But, I am not big on watching massacres, either. lol

BBM..

I respect all opinions. Just to clarify my point about JB. Would his "flub" in court today (opening the door for discussion of Dr. Lee) not be a "means to an end"? I am not claiming that JB is so wise that he intentionally introduced a topic (Dr. Lee) that would backfire on him. I am simply stating that I leave open the possibility that it is possible.

There is so much passion surrounding this case. Some posts are very "pro defense".....some are very "pro prosecution". I've posted from both perspectives. I simply want to attempt to "see" both sides. My posts are not intended to defend or accuse either side of wrongdoing, nor are they intended to sway or influence opinion. They are my own and everyone is free to express their own opinion.

I enjoy when an attorney points out my flawed statement and when another member disagrees with me. If we were all here to prove ONE side.......we'd lose out on learning the process and grow tired of the discussion.

KWIM?????????

 

[beach]

Given that she apparently has not met with her attorneys in some time, I almost wonder if the reality of AL departing did not become completely clear to her until today. That hit of "they're not going to give her unlimited funding to do whatever she wants." And lets not forget that this "emergency hearing" was probably dropped on her with the same suddenness as the SA and the public. And we know how much she loves appearing at these hearings.

You could very well be exactly right, faefrost. I would hope she had some advance notice, but that would explain her demeanor today if she did not. Good thought!

 

[LambChop]

Sleutherontheside: Don't we all just love a healthy discussion.

 

[beach]

BBM..

I respect all opinions. Just to clarify my point about JB. Would his "flub" in court today (opening the door for discussion of Dr. Lee) not be a "means to an end"? I am not claiming that JB is so wise that he intentionally introduced a topic (Dr. Lee) that would backfire on him. I am simply stating that I leave open the possibility that it is possible.

There is so much passion surrounding this case. Some posts are very "pro defense".....some are very "pro prosecution". I've posted from both perspectives. I simply want to attempt to "see" both sides. My posts are not intended to defend or accuse either side of wrongdoing, nor are they intended to sway or influence opinion. They are my own and everyone is free to express their own opinion.

I enjoy when an attorney points out my flawed statement and when another member disagrees with me. If we were all here to prove ONE side.......we'd lose out on learning the process and grow tired of the discussion.

KWIM?????????

I know exactly what you mean! It is one of the things I love and appreciate most about you. :blowkiss:


And this -

The thing is...... and what people may misunderstand......is that I crave a hearing where JB does well and where he seems to be on top of things. I would like to see him demonstrate an image of capability and knowledge.

I want to see a fair trial. I want to see both side argue with gusto, so that when a verdict is read it leaves no questions or doubts looming in the public arena.......a trial where each side has proven their case and done so with respect for the other side.

I completely agree with 110%! I feel the exact same way. I just want to see good, compelling legal arguments from both sides. One of my favorite things about working in law, actually.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Given that she apparently has not met with her attorneys in some time, I almost wonder if the reality of AL departing did not become completely clear to her until today. That hit of "they're not going to give her unlimited funding to do whatever she wants." And lets not forget that this "emergency hearing" was probably dropped on her with the same suddenness as the SA and the public. And we know how much she loves appearing at these hearings.

Your thought makes perfect sense. And to add.........she is always in the courtroom on time and HHBP always begins on time.

Today.........is the first day I recall where JB "went in" to see KC before the hearing. When she walked in I posted that it looked like she had been crying. Perhaps a better description by me would have been "she appeared shaken".

Also...other posts have mentioned that her body language after the hearing also appeared to snub JB. Perhaps she was still upset about the "news" she received.

 

[joypath]

...and maybe Dr. Lee learned from his mistakes...and teaches "Do as I say, not as I do."

And from personal experience, I say "bingo", you've won today's jackpot!



Okay.....not sure if it was "learned from his "mistakes"" but it sure seems to be his educational philosophy.

 

[faefrost]

Sots, great points made and I agree with everything you said, except the portion I bolded. I have given him the benefit of the doubt since the beginning, but for me, I have enough info and it scares me. I do think he is inadequate counsel to be defending anyone in a case of this magnitude. Not to be a total snark, but I really wouldn't let him defend me in traffic court. And, I mean that.

Today was the final straw for me. I could not believe some of the things I heard roll out of his mouth. Many you referenced in an earlier post. I am still totally aghast that he mentioned the Phil Spector trial. I can't think of anything he should have known w/o a doubt to stay as far away from more than referencing the trial where Henry Lee's reputation was destroyed because it was proven that he tampered with evidence. Considering the very issue that was at the heart of this motion, it is just mind boggling. I am almost stuttering as bad as JB while trying to type this out. I am actually more concerned today than I have ever been in re. KC's shot at an appeal for ineffective counsel. AL is gone. CM's crazy presser after the last status hearing certainly adds no comfort, it is clear he doesn't have a clue. And, JB? oh my... I'm holding out hope in re. LKB.

I don't know. So much was strange. Casey's demeanor today...it took them forever to get her into court and she was very different today. It struck me like no other time. She CLEARLY did NOT want to be there. Her emotions appeared sincere. She appeared to barely be able to hold it together today. So, if she was truly upset, then I have to believe it has to do with HERSELF. Because nothing would evoke those kind of emotions in her, if whatever it was didn't affect KC personally. Something is going on. I just haven't quite figured out exactly what it is yet... It is obvious there is major discord within the defense team. All kind of things are running through my mind. It could be as simple has she was self-conscious about her chipped tooth (has it been repaired?) or could be as complicated as her defense attorneys had a 'Come-to-meet-Jesus' talk with her and she didn't take it well. I'm still processing it all. Even JB's demeanor seemed more depressing to me today.

I just know that if he ends up arguing solo on July 15th against Mark NeJame, I don't know that I have the stomach to watch it. And, I LOVE MN...I was looking forward to it. But, I am not big on watching massacres, either. lol

The impression I got from it was that he really did flub it that bad. I almost got the feeling that he asked for the special master because someone else on the defense team told him that it is something they have requested in the past, and where. And right there JB just tied in that case without doing any actual research or legwork. Simply assuming that it would count as an appropriate citation.

My theory comes more from just a gut feeling watching JB work. Quite simply he doesn't do the research or leg work before opening his mouth. Heck today alone he was ranting about the last document dump and pretty much outright admitting that he had not gone through it or read it. I don't think we have EVER seen an appropriate citiation of any prior case law that came from him. What few we have seen have rather obviously come from either CM, or more comonly AL's law students. But JB has to date not even bothered trying. I think this is simply more of the same. LKB said at some point that she filed such a motion in cases such as Specter, so JB right away put in his emergency motion on the basis of "she got it for Specter". The fact that said reference opens the door to bringing his expert witnesses prior bad acts into play seemed completely lost on him.

 

[suepitzl]

IMHO, I don't think this will ever go to trial...........

 

[JSR]

It was an interesting hearing to say the least. The one thing I came away from this hearing is that JB should NEVER EVER be at a hearing on his own. It was truly painful to watch.

The other thing I noticed that as previous posters have commented on is that Casey's demeanor was a complete change in how she's been at EVERY hearing to date. I am curious to know what led to such a change.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Great Video Report from today's hearing.
http://www.wftv.com/video/24127283/index.html

 

[CentralFLMama]

I really appreciated you posting your observations. Thank You. Any other interesting observations? I didn't see GA there today - is that correct? Hardly saw Casey's face, but her hair looked great for once. Casey's smile was weak like in distant?

Correct, George was not there today. Casey's smile was the smile you would use if you were avoiding someone in the grocery store and they saw you anyway. That is the best way to describe it. She clearly had no desire to make eye contact with her mother. She did not look over that way when she walked in, and afterwards she just happened to turn that way while getting up and talking with Baez.

 

[watcher9]

It was an interesting hearing to say the least. The one thing I came away from this hearing is that JB should NEVER EVER be at a hearing on his own. It was truly painful to watch.

The other thing I noticed that as previous posters have commented on is that Casey's demeanor was a complete change in how she's been at EVERY hearing to date. I am curious to know what led to such a change.

Maybe it was because she found out she wasn't going to get a secret letter from CA or GA any more. I think she likes the thrill of thinking she is being able to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

 

[countzero]

There were only three words spoken by JB that finally impressed me:

CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY

he finally decided to give "that child" her proper given name.

 

[beach]

Given that she apparently has not met with her attorneys in some time, I almost wonder if the reality of AL departing did not become completely clear to her until today. That hit of "they're not going to give her unlimited funding to do whatever she wants." And lets not forget that this "emergency hearing" was probably dropped on her with the same suddenness as the SA and the public. And we know how much she loves appearing at these hearings.

faefrost, you really gave me some food for thought with this opinion. Then I decided to go read the motion again. Casey knew about it at least by June 29th, because she signed off acknowleding that she was advised. That doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't still upset about it today. I just wanted to point out that she wasn't informed immediately prior to today's hearing.

Andrea Lyon's Motion to Withdraw

Casey signed off on the very last page.

 

[sleutherontheside]

faefrost, you really gave me some food for thought with this opinion. Then I decided to go read the motion again. Casey knew about it at least by June 29th, because she signed off acknowleding that she was advised. That doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't still upset about it today. I just wanted to point out that she wasn't informed immediately prior to today's hearing.

Andrea Lyon's Motion to Withdraw

Casey's signed off on the very last page.

Is it me or does it appear that a siggy was started then stopped and started again????? Is this her siggy???? Where is a witness signature??? A notary???? Any sig by any other party????

 

[OneLostGrl]

What a mess Jose is.. worse today than ever. Though it does seem he left his cockiness at home this AM which is nice to see. Really, he is very paranoid! Casey seemed like they had woke her up and forced her to show up.

 

[beach]

Is it me or does it appear that a siggy was started then stopped and started again????? Is this her siggy???? Where is a witness signature??? A notary???? Any sig by any other party????

I don't know what would be required on this considering it is AL's motion. I would think that would be enough (AL's signature) since she is an officer of the Court. BUT, it is a different page, so not positive.

AZ, you still hanging around here to advise?

 

[sleutherontheside]

Color me stupid.......but in the motion filed by AL....does she not state in item #4.....that JAC does not allow for travel costs for pro bono counsel??????

Now....according to JAC outlines for 2010 / 2011 here....http://www.justiceadmin.org/ind_for_cost/What%20are%20Due%20Process%20Costs.pdf....travel costs ARE reimbursed.

The key here is that KC retained private counsel that resides in the Orlando area. BUT....given that JB is not DP qualified he can not handle the case alone. AL's travel is in fact eligible for reimbursement (under JAC guidelines). It would appear that becasue Mason has now jumped on board....THAT is what negates AL's expenses.

So...one must ask....did she encourage the addition of CM in order to have a reason to bow out?????

Curious.


I also find offensive.........AL's willingness to funnel monies from the Depaul Clinic account into this case, her willingness to accept thousands of dollars in "expenses" for materials (laptops) for use in the case.......yet she withdraws based upon the financial burden it "allegedly" creates for her. She didn't decline book tour locations based upon financial hardship.

If I were a Depaul trustee.....I would look a bit more closely at the actions taken in the name of the University. But that's just me.