2010.07.02 - Atty Werter on JVM tonite talking about Tommy's claims

[Missingmeds]

I didn't know inmates weren't allowed to be threatened...next thing you know they won't be allowed to be imprisoned either.

Whisperer, not to offend but in prison, to be classed as a rapist or child molester or child killer can get a person dead. If he were threatened that
LE was going to tell that he was a child killer that would be looked at by someone in prison as a death threat.

That is what bothers me about all of this.

 

[Whisperer]

Whisperer, not to offend but in prison, to be classed as a rapist or child molester or child killer can get a person dead. If he were threatened that
LE was going to tell that he was a child killer that would be looked at by someone in prison as a death threat.

That is what bothers me about all of this.

Trust me, all the inmates in any prison he goes to know of him. His attorney should tell him that! They watch the news (they have tv in their cells) and have newspapers and are ready for every new inmate...they like to know who is arriving

Having worked on the inside with some of the worst offenders around, he is safe so far. Inmates do not harm people who have not been convicted. He has not been convicted of murder. The LE are warning him....He should take heed and tell what he knows. Most of the deaths I have seen have been over drugs. Child molesters get the most protection because their crimes are not broadcast as widely...except if a leak happens...and even then, they are sheltered....at least where I worked. I have only known of one harmed...and it was a famous case.

 

[Missingmeds]

Trust me, all the inmates in any prison he goes to know of him. His attorney should tell him that! They watch the news (they have tv in their cells) and have newspapers and are ready for every new inmate...they like to know who is arriving

Having worked on the inside with some of the worst offenders around, he is safe so far. Inmates do not harm people who have not been convicted. He has not been convicted of murder. The LE are warning him....He should take heed and tell what he knows. Most of the deaths I have seen have been over drugs. Child molesters get the most protection because their crimes are not broadcast as widely...except if a leak happens...and even then, they are sheltered....at least where I worked. I have only known of one harmed...and it was a famous case.

I understand what you are saying. But again I have to say that if what Tommy reports was done, if what his attorney said is what happened, and given the response that PCSO gave, I believe that his rights were violated and for that I am not forgiving of LE. IF they do it once and get away with it they will do it again and have very likely done it before.

That is my whole take on the issue. I don't like Tommy or any of the liars that are involved in the Haleigh case. But I don't believe that gives LE of any agency to stomp on someone's Civil rights. Simply because the next person that gets their civil rights stomped on by LE might be me or someone that I care about.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I understand what you are saying. But again I have to say that if what Tommy reports was done, if what his attorney said is what happened, and given the response that PCSO gave, I believe that his rights were violated and for that I am not forgiving of LE. IF they do it once and get away with it they will do it again and have very likely done it before.

That is my whole take on the issue. I don't like Tommy or any of the liars that are involved in the Haleigh case. But I don't believe that gives LE of any agency to stomp on someone's Civil rights. Simply because the next person that gets their civil rights stomped on by LE might be me or someone that I care about.

Meds, let me tell you why I don't believe Tommy Croslin in regards to this complaint.

First and foremost, the one thing he has documented in this case is that he's a liar. Until he proves otherwise, I can not and will not "pick and choose" from whatever his statements may be. I don't believe anything he says, particularly when it's a self serving allegation of impropriety against the PCSO who has, in my view, bent over backwards to not tread on any civil rights by prematurely or falsely accusing anyone of the crime against Haleigh.

My second reason for being extremely dubious of this claim is it fits a predictable pattern of a claim of fear by Tommy Croslin. He claimed to be afraid of Ronald Cummings after the fight at GGM's. He claimed to be afraid of Ronald Cummings after the rat in the mailbox incident. He claimed to be afraid of Cousin Joe in his heretofore latest lie. Now, surprise surprise, Tommy says he's afraid because of Deputies being mean to him.

Tommy Croslin has been part of the problem in this investigation from the beginning with his silence and lies. It's time for him to be a part of the solution by finally telling the TRUTH.

A little girl's dignity deserves it and could very well depend on it.

 

[Donjeta]

From the transcript:

JAMES WERTER, TOMMY CROSLIN`S ATTORNEY: Well, the problem was last week he was transported back to Putnam County from St. John`s County I had no idea he was transported. Then a couple of days after he got there he`s pulled out of his cell for two hours and supposedly just to be interviewed regarding the Haleigh Cummings case which he`s not charged with but right away he asked for my presence.

He wanted his attorney present. They refused to grant that. They kept on questioning him. They made a number of threats to him, various threats that you`ve seen in the motion, but yet he was not allowed to consult with me.

Now, some people said that was an interview but when you`re held at custody and forcibly interrogated that`s not an interview and you have a right to your Fifth Amendment rights.

(CROSS TALKING)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, you`re the HLN law enforcement analyst. It does sound pretty odd if somebody says I want my attorney here while I`m being grilled but they don`t provide the attorney

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, they should. I mean personally I don`t have any sympathy for the guy, I mean he`s locked up for drugs. But if he did ask for his attorney to be present, his attorney should be present.

Is he allowed any phone calls at all, Jim or has he tried to contact you or they`re not letting him do that either?

WERTER: Well, no. Initially there were some problems. I`m not sure if it was purposeful or not but now he has free access to me from the phone which is good because Putnam County is about an hour`s drive from me. So we have regular access now on the phone.

JVM goes on to play the clip of JW saying Tommy knows what happened to little Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you believe, Jim, that cops are threatening to charge your client, Tommy Croslin with Haleigh`s murder?

WERTER: Well, you know, the people that interrogated him was Putnam County Sheriff`s office that day last week. One of the lead investigators was actually Florida Department of Law Enforcement, who has been aiding Putnam County. They never uttered those kind of threats. This came out of someplace else.

Now, Tommy has been voluntarily up until --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What came out of someplace else?

WERTER: This threat -- this threat of felony murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re hearing that you`re concerned that your client is going to be charged with murder.

WERTER: No, I`m not really. I`m not concerned because he`s not guilty of felony murder. He`s done nothing that would warrant that kind of claim. It`s a threat. It`s a threatening tactic.

JW saying Tommy is innocent of murdering Haleigh. Wait a sec, I thought he wasn't going to represent him in Haleigh's case?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what`s the whole point of this strong-arm tactics by -- yes, it`s a threatening tactic. What are they trying to get? If he knows what happened and he went down to the river and told them what he knows, then why are they threatening him?

WERTER: We covered this before about where the body might have been since it was dumped into that part of the river. And I don`t really want to go over that because it is kind of gruesome. But the fact of the matter is, there`s problems with this case as to charging the person that should be charged. They`re thinking there`s something more. Or there`s inconsistencies between -- minor inconsistencies between Tommy`s story and Misty`s story.

I'm glad to hear that the fricking tangled mess of lies has cleared enough to be called minor inconsistencies.

But the fact of the matter is now I`ve been through POW training, I`ve been a cop, I`ve studied these things as well. When you force someone to say something odds are, just like in Gitmo, you`re not going to get an accurate story.

But he`s been volunteering up until a couple of months ago. Until everything just came to a halt. He went to FDLE. I took him to FDLE.

Why did everything just come to a halt again?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Still don`t understand exactly what you`re saying. I was under the impression that you were afraid that they were threatening to do something else to your client?

WERTER: No, I`m not afraid. I`m upset that they used these tactics in violation of his Fifth Amendment rights.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s their point? What do they want?

WERTER: They don`t know what they want. They don`t know what to believe or what to trust, you know. So what can I tell you?

(CROSS TALKING)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what. Rita Cosby, can you make heads or tails out of what`s going on here?

RITA COSBY, AUTHOR, "QUIET HERO": I mean, it sounds to me that cops are hearing a lot of inconsistencies. And even Tommy`s attorney just said that -- he described them as minor inconsistencies but cops maybe don`t see it as minor inconsistencies.

Either way they see something that`s not jiving. It sounds like with maybe something he said, something Misty said and clearly they`re trying to put some pressure on him to get information.

I understand the attorney`s point. If indeed they`re using these tactics and doing these extreme measures, that`s not appropriate. You still have to act appropriately and I understand his point if that`s true.

(CROSS TALKING)

COSBY: On the other hand, they`re clearly seeing something that doesn`t jive here and they`re going wait a minute, what`s wrong? Why is he not maybe telling the full story? What`s not matching?

I wonder if they're only targeting Tommy or if Misty gets her share too. Why is she in St. Johns? Isn't it about time to get her some defective plumbing too?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a game of telephone. That`s what it is. And I`ll tell you it all started with Tommy and Misty`s grandmother, ok. She was the one who said Tommy and Misty told her what happened the night Haleigh went missing on the phone.

She played a clip of Flora Hollars telling a gruesome tale of what happened to Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, the grandmother you just heard from is a very flamboyant character who said she was told certain things by Tommy and Misty. And of course there`s going to be inconsistencies because it`s like a game of telephone with a senior citizen basically trying to interpret to police what her grandkids told her from behind bars.

This makes no sense to me because the cops don't have to rely on Hollar's versions of what she remembers Misty and Tommy saying on the phone, they have both Misty and Tommy on tape in the phonecalls and access to their interviews.

BROOKS: You know, what`s to believe from Flora Hollars, Jane? We`ve had her on the show. Then all of a sudden we don`t hear a word from her. Is what she was saying totally wrong? Was she making this up just to get her 15 minutes of fame or more? Who knows? Who knows what to believe in this case? This cast of characters is just incredible

What?? Would Granny's tale gain any credibility if she agreed to be on JVM every week rehashing it over and over again? Either it's credible the first time or it isn't.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And whatever happened, Jim, to the cousin, Cousin Joe, who Misty and Tommy pointed the finger at and he`s in another state and he has said he has nothing to do with it and then his cousins are trying to take him down. Whatever happened to all that?

WERTER: He`s still sitting up there in Tennessee skinny and happy, just hanging out there. He knows this is mired.

And I need to ask Mike. Isn`t it your professional opinion as a law enforcement officer that different perspectives how people see different scenes and events vary?

BROOKS: Oh, they do. And that`s the whole thing about eyewitness testimony. Is it credible, is it not?

WERTER: Exactly. Exactly.

I DO hope that if someone sees his/her cousin committing murder of an innocent child they take care to remember which relative it was later. It's easy to see a car on the street and be blissfully unaware of its color two minutes later but you might think that the details of witnessing a murder would stand out more and be etched in the memory.

BROOKS: So, you know, there`s a lot of questions in this case, Jim. Hopefully we`ll get to the bottom of them one day.

(CROSS TALKING)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or we could be dealing with everybody is a pathological liar in this entire family, and that is why we can`t figure out what`s up and what`s down and where little Haleigh is.

Thank you, fantastic panel.

BBM.

That's the case in a nutshell.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1007/02/ijvm.01.html

 

[JSV]

Meds, let me tell you why I don't believe Tommy Croslin in regards to this complaint.

First and foremost, the one thing he has documented in this case is that he's a liar. Until he proves otherwise, I can not and will not "pick and choose" from whatever his statements may be. I don't believe anything he says, particularly when it's a self serving allegation of impropriety against the PCSO who has, in my view, bent over backwards to not tread on any civil rights by prematurely or falsely accusing anyone of the crime against Haleigh.

My second reason for being extremely dubious of this claim is it fits a predictable pattern of a claim of fear by Tommy Croslin. He claimed to be afraid of Ronald Cummings after the fight at GGM's. He claimed to be afraid of Ronald Cummings after the rat in the mailbox incident. He claimed to be afraid of Cousin Joe in his heretofore latest lie. Now, surprise surprise, Tommy says he's afraid because of Deputies being mean to him.

Tommy Croslin has been part of the problem in this investigation from the beginning with his silence and lies. It's time for him to be a part of the solution by finally telling the TRUTH.

A little girl's dignity deserves it and could very well depend on it.

I agree with you 100%

 

[4Jacy]

I agree with you 100%

Perhaps Misty was so HIGH she allowed Tommy and Cousin Joe to rape that Precious child. You would have to be ASMF

RON KNOWS, HE KNOWS, HE HAD KNOWN................hOWEVER, HE DOESN'T HAVE THE B_LLs TO GO FOURTH/