2010.07.15 Defense motion to protect phone call of Robin Lunceford

[Intermezzo]

IIRC, there was a First Call to arrange for the Big Call, a sort of "pre-call" to make sure Jose would be available at 7:00.

But then I also have memory failure on a regular basis.

Yes, that is how I remember it after reading the SA's response.

 

[Intermezzo]

Yes, sorry if I was unclear in my first post about this. I'm speculating that there was a THIRD call, which was NOT recorded because RL did, in fact, circumvent the recording in one of the several illegal ways suggested by JB in his motion. In this hypothetical third call, JB would not have heard any warning about recording, he would have made "work product" comments about the case (and probably also about his approval of illegal jail phone calls lol), and RL would have provided the names of other witnesses. In other words, the third call would have actually matched the description of the call(s) provided by JB in his motion.

Then JB gets the State's response, realizes that the tapes they have do not include the one he was worried about, and tries to backtrack on his description so they don't catch on....

I absolutely agree with your conclusions.
JB himself stated in his Motion that there were "other communications".
JB does not, however, specify if the "other communications" were with Inmate Robin, or with Robin's friend, the EX-inmate "Hallie".

If Inmate Robin had used a "contraband cell phone" though, it would not have been recorded by the prison.
If Inmate Robin had used an attorney phone call - that may not have been recorded by the prison, or if a "counselor" had allowed Inmate Robin to place a call, that may not have been recorded.

From the description of the calls by LDB, it does not sound like Inmate Robin had spoken to JB before these 2 calls. I guess that Inmate Robin could have made more calls to JB AFTER these 2 calls though, using a method which was not intercepted by the prison.

There were definitely "other communications" -- and JB was definitely sweatin it ....

BMM 1 and 2
I agree, I agree.

 

[Cat13067]

So, JB has been caught red handed lying in a court document... and the judge has listened to the recording of Baez answering the second call himself. What can happen to him because of that besides the call being made a public record? Is it something that can be put in a complaint to the Bar and is anyone required to report it? I can't wait to read HHJP's order on this. :Jumpie:

He will just be a little red in the face for pretending to act even dumber than he has proven to be in the past. The testimony from RL on the tape is just put out there to impeach MD's testimony. The written evidence from KC to RA is a different matter, because it is in KC's handwriting. I think RA will testify at the hearing, but i wouldn't put any wieght on those letters.

I am getting a kick out of CM slowly creating a distance between himself, and JB. CM is a well respected attorney who must be sorry he ever got involved with this case.

 

[Cat13067]

http://www.wftv.com/news/24477811/detail.html

Love when HHJP denies yet another defense motion. DO you think they get it yet?

 

[nort]

Without Baez bringing this up would we have known about it? I was thinking that since the state probably is not going to use the inmates information because of credibility and that they just dont need to, maybe this was his only way to have it out there that he has information that MD was lying. Kind of fighting the incriminating statements outside the courtroom...MOO

 

[beach]

Without Baez bringing this up would we have known about it? I was thinking that since the state probably is not going to use the inmates information because of credibility and that they just dont need to, maybe this was his only way to have it out there that he has information that MD was lying. Kind of fighting the incriminating statements outside the courtroom...MOO

I could agree except it was the SA that actually brought it up by saying they had been made aware of it and planned on releasing it. That was when Baez went overboard trying to fight the release.

That was kinda my point a few pages back when I said I can't understand his reaction. If all the tape has on it is RL ranting and going on about other witnesses that can discredit Maya Derkovic's story, I would think he would be happy to have it released (for the same reasons you infer). That is why it makes no sense to me. It was free jury pool tainting w/o Baez even having to lift a finger.

I agree that the SA doesn't need these inmate's statements.

 

[faefrost]

I could agree except it was the SA that actually brought it up by saying they had been made aware of it and planned on releasing it. That was when Baez went overboard trying to fight the release.

That was kinda my point a few pages back when I said I can't understand his reaction. If all the tape has on it is RL ranting and going on about other witnesses that can discredit Maya Derkovic's story, I would think he would be happy to have it released (for the same reasons you infer). That is why it makes no sense to me. It was free jury pool tainting w/o Baez even having to lift a finger.

I agree that the SA doesn't need these inmate's statements.

More and more I am thinking that it isn't any brilliant or even lousy legal strategy. It is simply a sign that JB is in way way over his head. Have any of you ever worked under a boss or manager that somehow found themselves in something deeply over their head? The way that someone who finds themselves adrift will start grasping onto seemingly minor pointless tasks, because they are within their capacity or understanding, to the detriment of the entirety of the job or project? I am really starting to think that that is what we are seeing here.

JB really has no idea how to proceed from here in a capital case. None. He does not know where to even begin to look to research. His unpaid dream team DP experts have either left r simply wandered off to their own cases leaving him to handle the day to day stuff, and he doesn't know what to do. So when he does have something float his way, that he has even the faintest grasp of, he latches onto it and pours his effort into it pointlessly, fruitlessly and stupidly. I am really not thinking that this call or calls was anything incriminating against JB. I don't think that it is even anything of any interest to anyone including JB. I think that it simply became the busywork task of the day for JB,a nd one that he could focus on other than the overwhelming body of capital case law which it is doubtful that he even knows how to begin a LexisNexis search on. It was something that was referencing him personally, it was something that he thought he knew some case law regarding (having been handed what little info he had by the SA in previous unsuccessful motions and rulings, see rulings on jail/prison privacy and the sealing of an earlier illegally recorded tape) and so it became what he obsessed over, unloading what few guns he had.

As I said, Pointless, fruitless and stupid. I am truly starting to think there is no deeper underlying reason for all of this.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

.....I could not agree with you more!

 

[beach]

More and more I am thinking that it isn't any brilliant or even lousy legal strategy. It is simply a sign that JB is in way way over his head. Have any of you ever worked under a boss or manager that somehow found themselves in something deeply over their head? The way that someone who finds themselves adrift will start grasping onto seemingly minor pointless tasks, because they are within their capacity or understanding, to the detriment of the entirety of the job or project? I am really starting to think that that is what we are seeing here.

BBM Oh yeah, I've worked for those and with them. I know what you're talking about.

As I said, Pointless, fruitless and stupid. I am truly starting to think there is no deeper underlying reason for all of this.

You might be spot on, faefrost. Baez's reaction does baffle me. This reminds me of how I felt when I tried to make sense of CM's crazy presser after the 6/21 hearing. Bottom line, it didn't make sense.

 

[Soju]

Whole post.

:gold_crown:

 

[logicalgirl]

More and more I am thinking that it isn't any brilliant or even lousy legal strategy. It is simply a sign that JB is in way way over his head. Have any of you ever worked under a boss or manager that somehow found themselves in something deeply over their head? The way that someone who finds themselves adrift will start grasping onto seemingly minor pointless tasks, because they are within their capacity or understanding, to the detriment of the entirety of the job or project? I am really starting to think that that is what we are seeing here.

JB really has no idea how to proceed from here in a capital case. None. He does not know where to even begin to look to research. His unpaid dream team DP experts have either left r simply wandered off to their own cases leaving him to handle the day to day stuff, and he doesn't know what to do. So when he does have something float his way, that he has even the faintest grasp of, he latches onto it and pours his effort into it pointlessly, fruitlessly and stupidly. I am really not thinking that this call or calls was anything incriminating against JB. I don't think that it is even anything of any interest to anyone including JB. I think that it simply became the busywork task of the day for JB,a nd one that he could focus on other than the overwhelming body of capital case law which it is doubtful that he even knows how to begin a LexisNexis search on. It was something that was referencing him personally, it was something that he thought he knew some case law regarding (having been handed what little info he had by the SA in previous unsuccessful motions and rulings, see rulings on jail/prison privacy and the sealing of an earlier illegally recorded tape) and so it became what he obsessed over, unloading what few guns he had.

As I said, Pointless, fruitless and stupid. I am truly starting to think there is no deeper underlying reason for all of this.

Flawless on point statement FaeFrost! Thank you for that light bulb moment. So from someone who thinks in pictures - what ICA thought she was getting was an eagle, and what she actually got was a bumblebee.

 

[Steely Dan]

Flawless on point statement FaeFrost! Thank you for that light bulb moment. So from someone who thinks in pictures - what ICA thought she was getting was an eagle, and what she actually got was a bumblebee.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMcTMTzSQiE&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Horace Finklestein]

More and more I am thinking that it isn't any brilliant or even lousy legal strategy. It is simply a sign that JB is in way way over his head. Have any of you ever worked under a boss or manager that somehow found themselves in something deeply over their head? The way that someone who finds themselves adrift will start grasping onto seemingly minor pointless tasks, because they are within their capacity or understanding, to the detriment of the entirety of the job or project? I am really starting to think that that is what we are seeing here.

JB really has no idea how to proceed from here in a capital case. None. He does not know where to even begin to look to research. His unpaid dream team DP experts have either left r simply wandered off to their own cases leaving him to handle the day to day stuff, and he doesn't know what to do. So when he does have something float his way, that he has even the faintest grasp of, he latches onto it and pours his effort into it pointlessly, fruitlessly and stupidly. I am really not thinking that this call or calls was anything incriminating against JB. I don't think that it is even anything of any interest to anyone including JB. I think that it simply became the busywork task of the day for JB,a nd one that he could focus on other than the overwhelming body of capital case law which it is doubtful that he even knows how to begin a LexisNexis search on. It was something that was referencing him personally, it was something that he thought he knew some case law regarding (having been handed what little info he had by the SA in previous unsuccessful motions and rulings, see rulings on jail/prison privacy and the sealing of an earlier illegally recorded tape) and so it became what he obsessed over, unloading what few guns he had.

As I said, Pointless, fruitless and stupid. I am truly starting to think there is no deeper underlying reason for all of this.

That's what I've thought but couldn't quite articulate. I definitely see that dynamic at play here. He loses the big battles, but for some reason he needs a victory or needs to do something that makes sense so badly, he'll try his luck in little meaningless skirmishes.

The language in his 2nd motion about the Lunceford call was just bizarre - claiming the prosecution is confused, etc. He needs "revenge" or something so he shoots back his little retort...As if any rational person would objectively think that. This is delusion imo.

 

[logicalgirl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMcTMTzSQiE&feature=related

LOL-LOL-LOL-LOL!!!! But can you find one not quite so cute, otherwise I will change it to a BADGER!

 

[SondraK]

If one Googles "Peter Principle" the definition is Jose Baez. He has definately risen to the level of his incompetence.

Praying for you Jose!!!!!! You are going to take a beating

 

[LambChop]

What I do not understand is that if there was a first call and an arrangement for a second call at a specific time why did the call go from the office to the secretaries cell phone number then to JB's cell phone. Was that deliberate so he could claim he did not hear the recording? JB knows he is getting this call why not just return to the office or have the call directly forwarded to him from his office. Why go through the secretary who is probably fixing her family's meal by then? Something about this does not appear to be on the up-and-up. jmo

 

[Intermezzo]

What I do not understand is that if there was a first call and an arrangement for a second call at a specific time why did the call go from the office to the secretaries cell phone number then to JB's cell phone. Was that deliberate so he could claim he did not hear the recording? JB knows he is getting this call why not just return to the office or have the call directly forwarded to him from his office. Why go through the secretary who is probably fixing her family's meal by then? Something about this does not appear to be on the up-and-up. jmo

I agree Lambchop
Baez's law firs was expecting the first call from Lunceford(the assistant is heard on the taped saying "Hallie" told them she would be calling) and after the first call they arranged for the 2nd call 15 mins later.

IMO. How the calls from Lunceford were going to handled was already planned by Baez and his team. She just didn't happen to call Baez out of the blue that day.
:twocents:

 

[faefrost]

What I do not understand is that if there was a first call and an arrangement for a second call at a specific time why did the call go from the office to the secretaries cell phone number then to JB's cell phone. Was that deliberate so he could claim he did not hear the recording? JB knows he is getting this call why not just return to the office or have the call directly forwarded to him from his office. Why go through the secretary who is probably fixing her family's meal by then? Something about this does not appear to be on the up-and-up. jmo

Actually it isn't to uncommon. The office phome was probably set to autoforward to the secretaries phone. Not an uncommon setting or setup for todays small offices. She answered the call, heard who it was and passed it over to JB like she normally would. Modern cell phones and office phone systems are very capable of this, and as I said it is not an uncommon setup these days.

But do we know for certain that that second call bounced through the secretary? From the judges order it sounds like it either went directly to JB's phone, or she forwarded it before anyone accepted the jailhouse call.

 

[Purple Iris]

Does anyone think that we will witness Jose Baez have a nervous breakdown before this thing gets off the ground and into the court room.....

He is scrambling his eggs and is so far gone, IMO.
In his "interview" last week, after it was announced about him loosing his home, he was just completly whack.
He was wound tighter than a yo-yo, and his first comments was asking where Kathi B was, then, making those schoolyard name attacks on the manager of the station, ect.

I really think that he was disappointed that Kathi B wasn't there.
He was loaded for her, IMO.

Oh well.......wonder if we will see him under a Baker Act, on his own, or, otherwise.

 

[Steely Dan]

LOL-LOL-LOL-LOL!!!! But can you find one not quite so cute, otherwise I will change it to a BADGER!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG8_9k-fcp8[/ame]