2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)

[Astrella613]

I thought that Goth and Vamp were two different things and I think she is a little too old to be either! She is right about one thing, she sure doesn't look her age. The only thing she is, is evil and not getting how she separates her evil from CM evil, look about the same to me.

 

[Cherry Baby]

ITA scamperoo - its almost like her growth "stunted" (more like completely stopped) in the "teenage era".

And it may be a choice of her own also. I read these as a 40 something woman who has more fun in the fantasy world than the real world and acts accordingly. I think everybody has a fantasy or two and there's nothing wrong with that. When you live it and it becomes destructive to those around you then there is a huge problem.

 

[Donjeta]

I think the letters are from EB, but I think they are a plant. She has escaped the consequences for her various crimes for years. I don't think she is dumb by any means. Every word of these letters had a reason. This is her way of skewing things and getting alternate theories out there. Also, of course, to deflect from her own responsibility. Notice, she never actually gives any real information.

She definitely uses the letters to get the "Adam did it all and I'm just a poor misunderstood soul here" idea out there but she wasn't quite bright enough to pretend any concern for Zahra. The letters have got to be very real IMO as far as they portray her as concerned only for herself because I can't see any reason she would benefit from fake selfishness.

 

[Belinda]

Well they certainly could be a way of helping to get an insanity plea?:waitasec:

I don't think these letters will help her at all in an insanity plea. They come off childish and immature, but not crazy. I think there is a definite personality disorder going on here, but she isn't certifiably nuts. IMO

 

[Sleuthster]

There is irony in all of this IMO. She mentions in the letters that she can get money orders and I think in a twisted way she was trying to manipulate this person for her own gain. Feel sorry for me, we're both into the darkside bs, theyall want to kill me, I need you, your my bestfried, no one loves me, Im withering away poor me poor me poor me etc.She thought she had one of those groupies that would send her some money for her jail account. In actuallity they where just a facade wanting to manipulate her into writing some juicy info so they could sell these letters for financial gain.

She is definately not the brightest crayon in the box.

BTW, I had to laugh when she said she didnt look her age. No, she looks much much older.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

What do we think about the "we didn't kill her, but..."? So, she died, but EB claims that AB did something horrific afterwards - like what - dismemberment, I assume?

So, what in her mind would be "we didn't kill her"? Frankly, I could see someone at this level saying in her head, "We only beat her, and then she died, so we didn't kill her, really." (As if that wasn't murder.)

My theory is that someone hit her, she got sick and wasn't taken to hospital, and died later from it, and then AB dismembered her to hide the body.

What's your take on why she would claim they didn't kill her, and yet she died?

(Although, in her mind, she might think it is "cool" to have a husband that did awful things to dead bodies, so the letter might all be manure, AFAIK.)

 

[Yellow Rose]

Good article that was updated this morning on the letters:
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local_state/article.aspx?storyid=150073

"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.

"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.

Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."

This woman quite definitely fits that description!

 

[JoeFromLB]

Three candle candelabras are often used in Neo-Pagan rituals, particularly for the New Moon. (Usually peaceful rituals, btw.) I suspect that and bad movies would be her inspiration.

respectfully bolded by me...

I'm not at all sure that the "goth" and neo-pagan stuff is just a harmless fantasy here. I'd like to know more about the "virtual world" she was into on the internet, the connections she made there, and the mystery of someone from overseas sending her $10,000. For what???

My speculation here has been leading me into some dark areas, and I really don't want to think too much about those possibilities, IYKWIM.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

respectfully bolded by me...

I'm not at all sure that the "goth" and neo-pagan stuff is just a harmless fantasy here. I'd like to know more about the "virtual world" she was into on the internet, the connections she made there, and the mystery of someone from overseas sending her $10,000. For what???

My speculation here has been leading me into some dark areas, and I really don't want to think too much about those possibilities, IYKWIM.

My original comment was about actual practicing Neo-Pagans, so as to not paint the whole tradition with the same brush in noting that EB's inspiration may have come from that use of the candelabra.

I agree that this couple's specific use of things might not be so peaceful.

ETA: There is a thread in the Parking Lot about the virtual world stuff that you might want to look at, but all information relating to that is to remain in the member's only area for the time being.

 

[impatientredhead]

Thank you, Donjeta -- a truly excellent analysis.

To me the most telling thing about these letters is what they lack: any regret, sadness, or the tiniest whiff of concern for Zahra. I mean, her disdain for the child is SO obvious. She couldn't even bring herself to fake it. Which to me indicates that she feels justified in hating the child.

I wonder what she means when she says that "this wouldn't have happened" if her children hadn't called DSS on her? Does she mean she wouldn't have been caught (it was the ransom note that she's in jail for) or is it that she wouldn't have beaten the child to death if she wasn't so angry about the DSS calls?

I'm leaning toward the latter.

I think it means "we couldn't take her to the hospital because of the previous DSS records".

She says the "really" didn't kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.

I think she hurt her much worse than she intended, and they couldn't take her for help because people wouldn't mind their own business and she had a record with DSS so her story at the hospital wouldn't be believed.

Totally warped rationalization of course but I think that is exactly what she means. Not her fault the kid is dead, she had cancer and could have died before, she didn't mean to kill her, if no one had called DSS she could have taken her to the hospital but that is not her fault it is theirs, and what she did wasn't suppose to kill her but what AB did afterwards, THAT was horrific.

She is a sociopath.

 

[impatientredhead]

I don't think these letters will help her at all in an insanity plea. They come off childish and immature, but not crazy. I think there is a definite personality disorder going on here, but she isn't certifiably nuts. IMO

These letters work against her for an insanity plea IMO.

She is crazy as a loon, no question.

But she is absolutely competent to stand trial, knows right from wrong, and is aware of the legal proceeding surrounding her. She is literate, aware of her surrounding, fluent in the language. The letters don't help her defense at all.

 

[tfrohning]

Did anyone see NG tonight?? Reason I am asking, is she stated that there are more letters from EB. And in these letters EB writes that AB had nothing to do with Zahra's death. Did anyone else see/hear that tonight? I would post a link, but I really don't know how to link something I saw on HLN channel.


ETA: EB also wrote that if her kids hadn't called DSS on her, none of this would have happened. Can't wait to read these letters. I hope this isn't considered a rumor because I did see it on TV, even though it was NG!

Yes! Yes! I heard that on NG and went and got the snip from the Transcript.



Straight out to Ellie Jostad. There are other letters, are there not? And what do they reveal?

JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. Actually we spoke to somebody who got a letter from Elisa Baker. However, that woman says that Elisa claimed that Adam Baker was not involved.

But what`s more, she said that this was all her daughter`s, meaning Elisa Baker`s daughter`s fault. She said if the daughter had never called DFS on her, none of this would have ever happened.


I never heard that her daughter called DFS. This explain why her daughter did not want her mom release and why she was scare of her.

Again EB making excuses.:furious:

If true it also shows that her daughter did not get her mothers trait of evil.

 

[CrimsonClover]

Snip...

She says the didn't "really" kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.

She says "really didn't kill her" not "didn't really kill her".

 

[myzzy]

Yes! Yes! I heard that on NG and went and got the snip from the Transcript.

Straight out to Ellie Jostad. There are other letters, are there not? And what do they reveal?

JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. Actually we spoke to somebody who got a letter from Elisa Baker. However, that woman says that Elisa claimed that Adam Baker was not involved.

But what`s more, she said that this was all her daughter`s, meaning Elisa Baker`s daughter`s fault. She said if the daughter had never called DFS on her, none of this would have ever happened.


I never heard that her daughter called DFS. This explain why her daughter did not want her mom release and why she was scare of her.

Again EB making excuses.:furious:

If true it also shows that her daughter did not get her mothers trait of evil.

I believe i read in the other thread that the letter was to her best friend?

Has EB's children spoken out about why they are afraid of their mother and why they wanted them to stay in jail and their thoughts on Zahra's dissappearence? I dont think we have heard from any side of the family publicly talking unless i was asleep through the whole thing

 

[bessie]

What do we think about the "we didn't kill her, but..."? So, she died, but EB claims that AB did something horrific afterwards - like what - dismemberment, I assume?

So, what in her mind would be "we didn't kill her"? Frankly, I could see someone at this level saying in her head, "We only beat her, and then she died, so we didn't kill her, really." (As if that wasn't murder.)

My theory is that someone hit her, she got sick and wasn't taken to hospital, and died later from it, and then AB dismembered her to hide the body.

What's your take on why she would claim they didn't kill her, and yet she died?

(Although, in her mind, she might think it is "cool" to have a husband that did awful things to dead bodies, so the letter might all be manure, AFAIK.)

Having just watched the video and read the thread about the unmailed letters to Zahra's friend, I'm having a difficult time believing that she is not fully aware of what happened, and that it was legally and morally wrong. I do think, however, she is building as her defense the excuse that Zahra's death was the result of a simple mishap, and they are guilty only of eliminating her remains.

 

[impatientredhead]

Snip...


She says "really didn't kill her" not "didn't really kill her".

Thanks, i was going to go look it up, I will fix my post, I still think that is what she meant

 

[westsidefox64]

is there a screen shot released or a transcript of the letter she wrote her friend?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Transcribed letters

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39

Bumping.

 

[impatientredhead]

Oh it's great that EB can write flirty notes to a stranger but wouldn't mail Zahra's letters out to her little friend............I think it should be payback time.........hold her pencils, paper and envelopes back!!!
NO money in her kitty.........

After she is convicted I agree, i the meantime give her paper, pen and stamps and let her write her own evidence trail. She can be cut off from chat when she is convicted.. imo

 

[Cinderella.]

I think it means "we couldn't take her to the hospital because of the previous DSS records".

She says the didn't "really" kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.

I think she hurt her much worse than she intended, and they couldn't take her for help because people wouldn't mind their own business and she had a record with DSS so her story at the hospital wouldn't be believed.

Totally warped rationalization of course but I think that is exactly what she means. Not her fault the kid is dead, she had cancer and could have died before, she didn't mean to kill her, if no one had called DSS she could have taken her to the hospital but that is not her fault it is theirs, and what she did wasn't suppose to kill her but what AB did afterwards, THAT was horrific.

She is a sociopath.

100% agreed, I think this is what happened.

I too noticed how the word "kill" was different looking than the rest of the writing. It definately stood out to me, it almost looks bolded. I'm no expert but this just makes me feel... :sick: