2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)

[Mountain_Kat]

Same here!!!

Names matter. They are how we view ourselves, or how we intend others to view us (at least in some small measure anyway). I still have a fit when family calls me "Kathy". I'm not Kathy, I'm Kat, and have been Kat in my own mind since I was 13. The fact that Elisa Baker is 42 years old, and still hasn't come to land on a name that she feels comfortable identifying with speaks VOLUMES to me.

 

[westsidefox64]

Names matter. They are how we view ourselves, or how we intend others to view us (at least in some small measure anyway). I still have a fit when family calls me "Kathy". I'm not Kathy, I'm Kat, and have been Kat in my own mind since I was 13. The fact that Elisa Baker is 42 years old, and still hasn't come to land on a name that she feels comfortable identifying with speaks VOLUMES to me.

BBM JMO It seems to me when shes writing to Damien she wants to be goth vamp therefore ELESA, when she wants sympathy shes sweet innocent boohoo ELISA. its almost like a split personality.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

(Nobody throw eggs at me for saying this.)

In some ways, I empathize with EB. Probably because of my own background growing up in abuse, neglect and dysfunction. I don't know all the facts of what has brought EB to the person we're looking at today, but I suspect there are many many things that contributed it.

I don't neccesarily view her as a monster, but rather as a VERY disturbed person who has probably done something monstrous. And perhaps this is why I don't have any problem believing that there were times when she was actually good to Zahra.

JMO

 

[tehcloser]

A word to the wise. Don't let yourselves empathize with any of the players. Only the victim. When we here start identifying with one of the perps, we can drastically color the crime. And in the end, that is an injustice to the victim. We have to remind ourselves to sleuth as LE would. Leave your personal feelings out of it. I am afraid there is one case on here in which we all had a hand in making a quagmire. We all let it get to personal. I'm not talking to the locals....you are there, it's different for you. It happened in your back yard, it is personal for you. I hope the mods let this stand. I just think it needed to be said, especially the longer this goes on.

 

[burbqueen]

i'm an amatuer handwriting sleuth and her handwriting shows a slant to the left when she writing about certain things. thats telling. left slant usually means negative thoughts or emotions. Also her handwriting shows a selfish, childish person, who has an overall negative outlook on life. She has the emotional make up of a 15 year old girl. Her handwriting also shows someone with a person in love with fantasy. Also, a huge ego and needy. I think she is very clingy, jealous type person. What is also shocking is that I think she may have been sexually abused as a child or maybe in her early teens. How can I put this? Her handwriting kinda points towards physical stimulus when it comes to abusing or hurting others. A thrill or rush??

 

[Mountain_Kat]

A word to the wise. Don't let yourselves empathize with any of the players. Only the victim. When we here start identifying with one of the perps, we can drastically color the crime. And in the end, that is an injustice to the victim. We have to remind ourselves to sleuth as LE would. Leave your personal feelings out of it. I am afraid there is one case on here in which we all had a hand in making a quagmire. We all let it get to personal. I'm not talking to the locals....you are there, it's different for you. It happened in your back yard, it is personal for you. I hope the mods let this stand. I just think it needed to be said, especially the longer this goes on.

That's not a problem what-so-ever for me, Teh. I'm perfectly capable of separating fact from intuition/feeling.

 

[MandyLeigh]

I don't understand why the site published the other letters but has this third one listed as Unpublished. Is it because they are trying to get more money or just get it sold? I notice the other letters have not sold.

 

[Curious Me]

I know she has several aliases with Elesa being one of them, court dockets have her name Elisa. Looks to me she's still living in fantasyland.

She's trying to stay in the fantasy, but eventually she might just start feeling foolish. I would think, her age is going to hit her like a ton of bricks being in jail and all the discomforts. How long will she be able to cling to her poser Goth style? I pray she doesn't start getting all this support from her ghoulish crowd. (remembering KC's fan mail) Oh please, no.

 

[salvarenga]

Has the 3rd letter been published in it's entirety anywhere?

 

[kwmred]

looks like Nancy Grace may be talking about the third letter tonight (and also will have cousin on)

http://www.facebook.com/NancyGraceHLN

Tests results any minute could prove a bone found belongs to missing 10-year-old girl Zahra. And do more shocking jailhouse letters from her stepmom reveal Zahra is dead?

I hope someone calls in and asks the cousin why after having no contact with EB for 2 years, they decided to go visit her in jail. And, in defending her publicly have now inserted themselves into the limelight.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I hope someone calls in and asks the cousin why after having no contact with EB for 2 years, they decided to go visit her in jail. And, in defending her publicly have now inserted themselves into the limelight.

I don't see the cousin as defending EB so much as just trying to get to the truth of the matter. I do, however, suspect that this cousin is pretty damned ticked off that AB isn't also in jail. And if that's the case, I agree with her.

JMO

 

[Patty G]

At WS, we can't go with a "source" telling what they may have heard as it comes forth as a "rumor". We usually link to the info from the media, or perhaps through our local members living in Hickory are vetted through the owner of the forum.

 

[impatientredhead]

A word to the wise. Don't let yourselves empathize with any of the players. Only the victim. When we here start identifying with one of the perps, we can drastically color the crime. And in the end, that is an injustice to the victim. We have to remind ourselves to sleuth as LE would. Leave your personal feelings out of it. I am afraid there is one case on here in which we all had a hand in making a quagmire. We all let it get to personal. I'm not talking to the locals....you are there, it's different for you. It happened in your back yard, it is personal for you. I hope the mods let this stand. I just think it needed to be said, especially the longer this goes on.

I understand your point and it is well taken.
But (you knew that but was coming didn't ya? lol)...

I think empathy with the alleged perps can be a good thing.
It takes a real level of honesty to see that you see yourself in someone that has done something awful, or that you know someone very much like that person. Empathizing with them does not mean condoning it.

But the insights that those who do empathize can provide can give us insights into how those people think, what their motivation might have been, what they might have done afterwards. All good things when sleuthing.

I for one empathized with Cindy Anthony far far into the case because she reminded me so much of my mentally ill/drug addicted/borderline personality mother. I could see some of her efforts for the "loving" intent they were based in even if they were horribly misled and had horrible outcomes.

Being that she reminded me SOOOO much of my own mother I empathized with Casey and how sneaky, manipulative, and what a liar she had become. That empathy ended very quickly when Casey became an abusive mother, but I very personally understood how she got to be the young woman she was up to that point.

But they are not black and white all good or all bad players. And understanding that EB probably had some very kind moments and may have even loved Z to the degree she was capable of loving someone can help explain how others perceived what was going on in Z's home.

Does that make sense?

 

[tehcloser]

It makes total sense, but, lol, those of you that have been around here awhile know exactly what I mean. This place gets ugly when folks start digging there heel's in about the way they feel about a perp. I hope we can avoid that with this case. Personal experience is wonderful, we all have it, it just may not fit in at all with the perps of a crime. All I'm saying is try to look at it without letting it become personal....not pointing at anyone in particular, just it was shared with me when I got here, and I think it's worth passing on.

 

[westsidefox64]

I understand your point and it is well taken.
But (you knew that but was coming didn't ya? lol)...

I think empathy with the alleged perps can be a good thing.
It takes a real level of honesty to see that you see yourself in someone that has done something awful, or that you know someone very much like that person. Empathizing with them does not mean condoning it.

But the insights that those who do empathize can provide can give us insights into how those people think, what their motivation might have been, what they might have done afterwards. All good things when sleuthing.

I for one empathized with Cindy Anthony far far into the case because she reminded me so much of my mentally ill/drug addicted/borderline personality mother. I could see some of her efforts for the "loving" intent they were based in even if they were horribly misled and had horrible outcomes.

Being that she reminded me SOOOO much of my own mother I empathized with Casey and how sneaky, manipulative, and what a liar she had become. That empathy ended very quickly when Casey became an abusive mother, but I very personally understood how she got to be the young woman she was up to that point.

But they are not black and white all good or all bad players. And understanding that EB probably had some very kind moments and may have even loved Z to the degree she was capable of loving someone can help explain how others perceived what was going on in Z's home.

Does that make sense?

ITA IMO if everyone thought exactly the same we would never get anywhere. So many of the posts I see make my chain of thought shift. I myself try to look at everything as if I was on a jury trying to decide if the information is enough to convict. I love that someone else comes on putting themselves in the shoes of the accused, or the person that is seeing things in the eyes of the victim, the next is trying to put themselves in the shoes of LE. All these DIFFERENT opinions get us closer to the truth. But again that is JMO

 

[imamaze]

Website posts third letter allegedly from Elisa Baker
There are new revelations to report in the search for 10-year-old Zahra Baker. The owners of the crime memorabilia website "Serialkillersink.net" posted a third letter that they say is from Zahra's stepmother Elisa Baker.
More... Video included...

Investigators looking into Elisa Baker's finances
Nearly a month since 10-year-old Zahra Baker was first reported missing, her stepmother, Elisa Baker, remains in a jail cell.
Elisa Baker was charged with obstruction of justice in connection with Zahra's disappearance.
According to a cousin who paid a visit a visit to the Catawba County jail, Elisa Baker is upset and not doing well.
Baker’s cousin did not want NewsChannel 36 to use her name.
More...

Elisa Baker's Cousin: We don't know the truth, either
CATAWBA COUNTY, N.C. -- A family member of Elisa Baker, Zahra Baker’s stepmother, visited her in jail on Monday.
VIDEO: Elisa Baker’s Cousin: We Don’t Know The Truth, Either

The woman, who did not want to give her name, is Elisa’s first cousin. She is one of the few people outside of attorneys who have spoken with Elisa inside the jail.
“I'm not going to comment about that,” the woman said when asked if she thought Elisa should be in jail.
She added, “I don't think she is the only one who should be in jail.”
More...

Hickory investigators await results of DNA evidence
Christie Road still bears the marks of the intensive search investigators performed for three days last week in Caldwell County.
During the search, investigators found a bone they believe may be related to Zahra Baker’s disappearance. After finding the bone Nov. 3, law enforcement sent it to the medical examiner’s office in Chapel Hill for testing. After those tests, if it’s determined to be connected to Zahra’s case, it will be sent to the SBI lab in Raleigh for additional tests.
More...

 

[ynotdivein]

i'm an amatuer handwriting sleuth and her handwriting shows a slant to the left when she writing about certain things. thats telling. left slant usually means negative thoughts or emotions. Also her handwriting shows a selfish, childish person, who has an overall negative outlook on life. She has the emotional make up of a 15 year old girl. Her handwriting also shows someone with a person in love with fantasy. Also, a huge ego and needy. I think she is very clingy, jealous type person. What is also shocking is that I think she may have been sexually abused as a child or maybe in her early teens. How can I put this? Her handwriting kinda points towards physical stimulus when it comes to abusing or hurting others. A thrill or rush??

burb, thank you for the analysis--do you mind sharing some of the "tricks of the trade" that led you to these conclusions? Like, the huge ego and needy parts? Handwriting analysis is a subject I have long been interested in but it hasn't yet made it up to my "darn it I am just gonna dive in and learn all about it" stage yet and I would appreciate any further explanations.

(Taught h.s. for quite a while and I do agree that her writing reminds me of maybe the freshman/sophomore range, so 13-15, but would like to be able to link specific characteristics to what my experience is telling me, KWIM?)

TIA :wave:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I understand your point and it is well taken.
But (you knew that but was coming didn't ya? lol)...

I think empathy with the alleged perps can be a good thing.
It takes a real level of honesty to see that you see yourself in someone that has done something awful, or that you know someone very much like that person. Empathizing with them does not mean condoning it.

But the insights that those who do empathize can provide can give us insights into how those people think, what their motivation might have been, what they might have done afterwards. All good things when sleuthing.

I for one empathized with Cindy Anthony far far into the case because she reminded me so much of my mentally ill/drug addicted/borderline personality mother. I could see some of her efforts for the "loving" intent they were based in even if they were horribly misled and had horrible outcomes.

Being that she reminded me SOOOO much of my own mother I empathized with Casey and how sneaky, manipulative, and what a liar she had become. That empathy ended very quickly when Casey became an abusive mother, but I very personally understood how she got to be the young woman she was up to that point.

But they are not black and white all good or all bad players. And understanding that EB probably had some very kind moments and may have even loved Z to the degree she was capable of loving someone can help explain how others perceived what was going on in Z's home.

Does that make sense?

Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".

JMO

 

[tehcloser]

Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".

JMO

Next time I try to say something, I'm just going to have you do it for me. :crazy:

 

[westsidefox64]

Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".

JMO

JMO I love this! Its my post of the day!!!