2010.11.03 Third party involved?

[milliac]

Zahra Baker case update: Investigators examine finances of stepmom Elisa Baker

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-nat...om-elisa-baker

[snip - BBM]: Authorities have now subpoenaed Elisa’s financial records. According to WCNC, the subpoena was issued to a bank located within a Wal-Mart store in Granite Falls, and indicates Elisa may have used up to eight different aliases. Financial transactions of Elisa’s daughter, Amber Fairchild, are also being requested by investigators.WCNC video: http://www.wcnc.com/video?id=106915208&sec=731773


It strikes me as odd that LE is subpoena-ing AF's financial records as well, particularly considering how afraid she was for EB to be let out on bond...

I'm not implying that AF was an accessory, just wondering, though, if she knew something. JMOO

Maybe a case of Identity Theft?

 

[Etilema]

Zahra Baker case update: Investigators examine finances of stepmom Elisa Baker

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-nat...om-elisa-baker

[snip - BBM]: Authorities have now subpoenaed Elisa’s financial records. According to WCNC, the subpoena was issued to a bank located within a Wal-Mart store in Granite Falls, and indicates Elisa may have used up to eight different aliases. Financial transactions of Elisa’s daughter, Amber Fairchild, are also being requested by investigators.WCNC video: http://www.wcnc.com/video?id=106915208&sec=731773


It strikes me as odd that LE is subpoena-ing AF's financial records as well, particularly considering how afraid she was for EB to be let out on bond...

I'm not implying that AF was an accessory, just wondering, though, if she knew something. JMOO

On one hand, I want to say that maybe EB was using AF's identity (as it she reportedly had in the past). On the other hand, AF testified about the money her mother received, allegedly, from London Dude. How would she know about that? Was EB having her put the money into *her* (AF's) account, to avoid AB knowing about it? Etc.

So, in other words, yes, it sounds like she may "know something".

JMO

 

[sherryk]

I do not think there is a 3rd party involved. I think that AB and EB were desperate to cover up and acutally thought they could pull it off. AB thinks he is a master mind due to hiding ZB from bio mom. EB seems as she is demanding and outspoken and came up with her help in killing ZB and getting rid of the body.

These two seem like not the sharpest crayon in the pack. Small town, blue collar, speaking manner seems to be very uneducated. They acutally thought they could outsmart everyone on the disposal of several locations.

EB loves to talk and write. I suspect maybe others she betrayed in identies, theft, arguments and her other children may have come foward with little bits of into.

Her computer has to have some info on it. What about cell phones they can ping even if no call placed at a certain place... A period of cell phone no pings and turned OFF hasnt been mentioned that I know of.. I am sure LE is all over that and hasnt released.

But in short 3rd person involved is ZB and she died I suspect A horrible death and while alive had a misreable life with her so called parent and step mom.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40441458/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 4 minutes ago
2010-11-30

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — North Carolina police investigated a claim that a 10-year-old girl who was killed and dismembered was sexually assaulted, according to court documents released Tuesday afternoon.

The documents are 11 search warrants issued in October as police investigated the disappearance of Zahra Baker, said NBC station WCNC of Charlotte, N.C.

They include eight warrants for the Bakers' home in Hickory and three warrants to access social media accounts owned by Zahra’s stepmother, Elisa Baker, WCNC said

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/30/1877305/stepmother-zahra-bakers-body-dismembered.html

By Gary L Wright and Fred Clasen-Kelly
[email protected]
Posted: Tuesday, Nov. 30, 2010

Ten-year-old Zahra Baker may have been raped before she was murdered, and her dismembered body then concealed in a bed comforter and car cover, and discarded in a Dumpster behind a grocery store, according to court documents released this afternoon.

The documents don't reveal how the girl died, but they suggest that acquaintances of Zahra's stepmother may have played a role in the girl's death.

 

[agathawannabe]

Please note: this thread is not meant for discussing whether or not AB knew Zahra was being abused on an ongoing basis. Please stick to the topic of whether the homicide/coverup could be "accomplished" without his knowledge? (I use the term accomplished loosely, because I believe that - in the end - those involved will not get away with it.)

I respectfully request that we DON'T get carried away with the title of this thread and run afoul of WS TOS. Please DO NOT ATTEMPT TO NAME any potential accomplices! Thank you!


Bringing over my post from the AB Involvement poll/thread #2 - and a couple of others for context.

One major point that AB has to explain........if he and EB went to Octoberfest (as has been reported by locals) and Zahra was not with them, where did he think she was? We know that Zahra was not seen by any neighbors at the Hickory home so none of them could have babysat her. We know that EB had severed ties with her family members and had not talked to them since before the move to the Hickory home so none of them could have babysat her. I can't see AB (if he is as loving of a father as he and his mother claim he is) leaving Zahra home at night alone especially when they were going to something that a kid would love. This occured the night before Zahra was reported missing by AB, so where was she?

He already explained this, you must have forgot that she was in puberty and brooding in her room. Unless she wanted something from them.

Oh yeah, she had the flu somewhere in there too.

It is a crock but clearly he is more than willing to claim absent parent. clueless to what was going on around him.

But we can all conclude based on time lapsed and the amount of clean up that had to have gone on that the dismemberment, disposal, and housekeeping had pretty much concluded before our happy couple went out for the local celebration. If the physical evidence proves Adam was involved in at least the dismemberment and disposal of his daughters body, and they can show him out for drinks and socializing, that says a lot about state of mind regarding her death.

Speculation alert:

Call me strange.. but I think AB may have thought Z was home in bed sleeping/resting to get recovered from a stomach virus. (and no, I wouldn't award him Father of the Year with lapses in judgment like this, among other parental failures)

Note: Hickory Oktoberfest started on Friday Oct 8 and went until 11 pm that night.

I think during Oktoberfest (Friday evening/night) IS the timeframe the dismemberment/dumping of Z's remains occurred.. and believe it or not, I think neither EB nor AB actually had a hand in it. (and, IMO, AB had no knowledge of it). Ironic, but I think it would fit EB's style to "set up" others to do this dirty work. And with the sorts of allegations we heard this week, there could have been others willing to take this on to ensure their own misdeeds were concealed. (I am not making any accusations here against the two who were named in those allegations.) I think EB was involved in other cover-up tasks (i.e. dumping the mattress earlier that day - or possibly the day before).

I think EB likely convinced AB to go to Oktoberfest to get him out of the house so *other* accomplices could have access to the house and vehicles. I think there were probably 2 or 3 accomplices (possibly even 4).

I think the accomplices did the dismembering, then 2 of them split up in the (company) Tahoe and the 1990 Camry to go distribute Z's remains. I think it's possible a 3rd (maybe 4th) stayed to clean up the crime scene at the house.

I think the 2005 Impala on the search warrant (the car with NO decomp hits on it) is likely what the Bakers would have driven to Oktoberfest.

I think the accomplices were very hurried to get everything done while the Bakers were out.. hence the "goo glove" dropped and left behind with no time for double-checking things.

I think EB was "briefed" by the accomplices as to the dumping sites. And IF there actually are discrepancies between what EB said (in the warrants) would be found and what was actually found at particular locations - I think she had either misunderstood or misremembered what she had been told (by the accomplices) was where.

Big-time speculation, I know. But I really think the story could be something similar to this when it all comes out.

And because I wholeheartedly believe there were accomplices in on this - I again, sincerely urge these accomplices to do the right thing - for a change. Go speak with police.

 

[agathawannabe]

I believe EB has probably made numerous "mistakes" among her statements to police. The Oktoberfest story being one of them.

I think, on one hand, EB intended to use Oktoberfest as an "alibi" - after all, even AB would say she (EB) was there!

Problem (for her) is - she also wanted to try to confuse the timeline of Zahra's disappearance, making it look more "likely" to have been Saturday morning. So she told police they were ALL at Oktoberfest as a family (implying or directly stating, Zahra too).

But she can't have it both ways! Especially if AB is NOT saying Zahra was there.

MOO

 

[wenwe4]

So if there are accomplices - the story in the search warrants did not come from EB but from another source. This would mean that EB is protecting the accomplices but throwing AB under the bus.

 

[agathawannabe]

So if there are accomplices - the story in the search warrants did not come from EB but from another source. This would mean that EB is protecting the accomplices but throwing AB under the bus.

That's exactly what I think.

Thanks for stating it so succinctly!

 

[myzzy]

i have come to believe that AB was not involved and somehow they managed to do the crime without his knowledge. WHile it would have been difficult it is not impossible.

I wish there was more people in the community who could narrow the timeline down. For example 2 weeks ago we had a xmas parade here and while probably 5 or 6 thousand people were in the streets, chances of anyone knowing me would be small ( we live in a community of about 400k people) my daughter was spotted by a parade participant ( another child in the parade itself) spotted her and talked with her as she was a another student ( 2 years older) in the same school .

 

[wenwe4]

The problem with the timeline is that no one has claimed to see Zahra since the furniture store encounter. Since they moved to the new home on 21st, you would think there would be grocery store employees who remember seeing Zahra shopping with EB or AB there. Maybe we just don't have all of the info and LE already has sightings of Zahra - but they have publically stated that no one has seen her since the furniture store. Could it be that Zahra was actually missing much longer than what we have been thinking?

 

[Etilema]

Wow, this theory makes total sense to me. It would explain how/why different evidence was dumped in different areas (if there were more than two accomplices, additional vehicles may even have been involved). It could be an explanation of how AB could POSSIBLY have not known that his daughter was dismembered. It would explain why EB's initial dumping locations were not completely accurate.

In the Railbugfreak thread, he said that AB had been planning to leave EB. Perhaps that's why she appears to have absolutely no qualms about throwing him under the bus.

All just speculation and opinion, but I think it could possibly have some truth to it.

 

[wenwe4]

Wow, this theory makes total sense to me. It would explain how/why different evidence was dumped in different areas (if there were more than two accomplices, additional vehicles may even have been involved). It could be an explanation of how AB could POSSIBLY have not known that his daughter was dismembered. It would explain why EB's initial dumping locations were not completely accurate.

In the Railbugfreak thread, he said that AB had been planning to leave EB. Perhaps that's why she appears to have absolutely no qualms about throwing him under the bus.All just speculation and opinion, but I think it could possibly have some truth to it.

BBM

Could this be the smoking gun? EB would be damned if AB left her - especially if it was because how she treated Zahra? They say paybacks are a b*tch but Ambush is a MF'r. (sorry that is just an old saying that comes to mind here)

 

[Etilema]

The problem with the timeline is that no one has claimed to see Zahra since the furniture store encounter. Since they moved to the new home on 21st, you would think there would be grocery store employees who remember seeing Zahra shopping with EB or AB there. Maybe we just don't have all of the info and LE already has sightings of Zahra - but they have publically stated that no one has seen her since the furniture store. Could it be that Zahra was actually missing much longer than what we have been thinking?

Or it could simply be that Zahra was being kept in her room all that time. After all, the decision to homeschool was made before the furniture store sighting--meaning that Zahra was being kept out of the public while she was still alive. Remember that AB said she stays in her room most of the time and "only comes out when she needs something", and I believe it was Brittany Starbuck who said in an interview that Zahra was afraid to come out of her room, afraid of EB. So if AB really wasn't involved in the murder/dismemberment, and was telling the truth about Zahra staying in her room, it could be that she was being kept in there, such that neighbors and others wouldn't have seen her.

Just my own opinion and speculation.

 

[wenwe4]

Etilema - that makes a lot of sense! TY for your opinion and speculation!

 

[agathawannabe]

The problem with the timeline is that no one has claimed to see Zahra since the furniture store encounter. Since they moved to the new home on 21st, you would think there would be grocery store employees who remember seeing Zahra shopping with EB or AB there. Maybe we just don't have all of the info and LE already has sightings of Zahra - but they have publically stated that no one has seen her since the furniture store. Could it be that Zahra was actually missing much longer than what we have been thinking?

I wish I had made better notes. I remember running across a rather obscure article discussing the bone that had been found on November 3rd. The article said the "stage of decomposition" was estimated at one month.

So I made a mental note that the date of death would then be approximately October 3rd - give or take a few days.

I CANNOT find the article again - if anyone knows where that is or finds it before I do, please post a link. For some reason, November 12 sticks in my mind as the the approximate date the article was published.

When adding that piece of info, along with other clues.. I'm rather fixated on Thursday October 7th as a likely date of Zahra's death. MOO

 

[mysticrose]

I have thought from the start that AB is not involved, and yes I believe EB is capable with others to carry out the crime without AB's knowledge.

 

[Etilema]

I have thought from the start that AB is not involved, and yes I believe EB is capable with others to carry out the crime without AB's knowledge.

I don't want to get off topic, but if AB isn't involved, I am at a loss to explain his choices, behavior, and demeanor. There are so many things about the way he acts and has acted that just don't make sense to me!

Still (to keep to our focus), I guess it could be that he has some other issues that contribute to the way he seems, and that the participation of accomplices would have made it completely possible and believable for EB to have done something without AB's knowledge.

JMO

 

[agathawannabe]

Or it could simply be that Zahra was being kept in her room all that time. After all, the decision to homeschool was made before the furniture store sighting--meaning that Zahra was being kept out of the public while she was still alive. Remember that AB said she stays in her room most of the time and "only comes out when she needs something", and I believe it was Brittany Starbuck who said in an interview that Zahra was afraid to come out of her room, afraid of EB. So if AB really wasn't involved in the murder/dismemberment, and was telling the truth about Zahra staying in her room, it could be that she was being kept in there, such that neighbors and others wouldn't have seen her.

Just my own opinion and speculation.

I tend to agree with this. I think EB had probably ranted about the DSS reports - she probably worked to convince AB that people were just sticking their noses in their (Bakers) business for "no reason" but that they'd better keep Zahra out of view at the new house (because if the neighbors there should create trouble Zahra might be taken away from their household).

MOO - Too many nosy people filing DSS reports, says EB to frighten Adam. So Adam doesn't breathe a word about Zahra's existence to the new neighbors. They don't allow her out and about to be seen.

 

[tehcloser]

Defense attorney's loves these threads.......lol. I just can't see it. He has changed his story about when he last saw her, the house was being painted, mattresses thrown away, major clean up effort and the whole time we are expected to believe he thought nothing of not seeing Zahra? Nope, I can't buy that. Do we know he went to the fair or whatever without EB? Or is that just speculation? Because I don't think we can just come up with whatever we want to to get him out of the house, or her for that matter. The fact is they ARE looking at AB. They are doing that for a reason. We may not know what all evidence they have, but they do - and they are still looking at him.