2011.02.18 Depo: Tony Lazzarro - depo linked on pg. 5

[Atlanta PI]

I have always wondered where the he77 little Caylee was when she was not with ICA and George and CA were working. Nobody ever took care of her except "Zanny", the imaginary nanny.

.

Well if it was nighttime she was probably in the trunk. Poor baby.

 

[chefmom]

Because it is a very very effective way of compartmentalizing her boyfriends from her parents. It eliminates that whole situation where the parents seem to really like the boyfriend, perhaps more than the lying stealing fraud of a daughter. It creates an instant and easily manipulatable hostile environment between her suitors and her family. which keeps her completely in control.

And she did use lies to similar purpose with female friends. Note telling Kiyomarie (sp?) that her mother was a racist who hated Spanish people and wouldn't allow them in the house. Or note Amy's deposition where it is clear that she had been told some tales about KC's family life to give her a negative impression before she ever met them. (I'm not saying that there isn't plenty of reason to have negative reactions to the A's. They really are abhorrent. But don't trust any stories from KC, ever.)

Excellent points, Faefrost! She used some story to keep the distance between her friends, boyfriends, and parents. She never intended for them to meet and exchange thoughts. That would have given her away.

 

[Just Jayla]

BBM - Yes, this is what I said above & agree 100%. I'm not so sure about her wanting her dad "taken out" by one of these guys. I think it was purely for the sympathy.

Maybe figuratively, not literally? I remember my reaction to GA's reaction to TonyL-He had not even met him, and yet GA told LE he was ready to rip into "this Tony"...for no apparent reason...I thought that was a little off-key.

Was KC looking for her own personal silverback, to beat his chest and make daddy go away? Someone to rival George and Cindy? Maybe that's why she was intrested in buff Jesse, only JG ended up being a little too righteous for her.

On the other hand, I have to wonder as well why she would create such an awkward situation as to have her boyfriends come home to meet her dad that she said molested her. Well, she brought home JG, maybe she was never planning to introduce Ricardo or Tony to George. And come to think of it, she brought JG around right about the time Caylee was due or arriving, so she waited until last minute for, IIRC, GA to insist that they meet Jesse. Maybe she was never going to introduce them to Jesse, either, therefore no problem telling these guys crap about her family.

 

[SuziQ]

Amy's depo is discussed as well. I found what she said Cindy said about the car interesting! I don't think that was discussed in the first depo Amy did. I could be wrong though. I should probably find an Amy thread.

 

[Baznme]

When the only personality ICA has/had was doing whatever took her to the next place (ie...keeping her from actually working, doing anything other than living off of someone else) then it makes sense. What guy of Tony's age wouldn't want someone to have the naked time with, clean house, make dinner? I think though that he was not that infatuated with her. Hence, why she kept so many other men in the backfield. We have since learned she wasn't exclusive with Tony...she was still playing the odds.

As sickening as it is to me, Caylee was just a poker chip. Where can I land next so I don't have to work? When you see Caylee through Casey's eyes, the true Casey, you can feel sick inside but still understand why Casey felt nothing after Caylee was gone. Because she was just a chip. A means to an end. Lament her for five seconds, in the mind of Casey, and then move on to another scam. Otherwise, why let JG believe falsely that he was the father? Just a means to an end. Her parents finally after years of her lies, called her bluff...and basically (imo) said that she would have to move out and they would take Caylee from her. Hence, no more free babysitters...no more partying on her parent's tab. No more places to go. I think that was why she invented the tale that she miscarried at the "no clothes party" trying yet again and unsuccessfully to indebt someone else. She thought that Tony might move back to NY...he had no loyalty to keep her up nor was he someone she could accuse of being Caylee's father...I don't blame Tony...I think he was just a typical guy that clearly fell under her spell. When you think about how long and hard Casey has been lying, since she was a child, she lied about being able to graduate, lied up until the moment of graduation when she and her parents had to get her grandparents out of the actual audience to tell them she wouldn't be crossing the stage...what I can't fathom is why we believe, or why anyone has a moment's thought about anything she has said or will say.

It is all to avoid fault and responsibilty. Something Cindy shielded her from up until those last three months before Caylee was killed. Finally, CA had had enough. And look at the end result. It makes sense. It makes me sick to my stomach and it is pure evil but Casey plays everyone to her own ends. And it is totally obvious to me. JMO.

This post is sooooo on point.

 

[Just Jayla]

Because it is a very very effective way of compartmentalizing her boyfriends from her parents. It eliminates that whole situation where the parents seem to really like the boyfriend, perhaps more than the lying stealing fraud of a daughter. It creates an instant and easily manipulatable hostile environment between her suitors and her family. which keeps her completely in control.

And she did use lies to similar purpose with female friends. Note telling Kiyomarie (sp?) that her mother was a racist who hated Spanish people and wouldn't allow them in the house. Or note Amy's deposition where it is clear that she had been told some tales about KC's family life to give her a negative impression before she ever met them. (I'm not saying that there isn't plenty of reason to have negative reactions to the A's. They really are abhorrent. But don't trust any stories from KC, ever.)

Awesome. Brilliant ideas, and it also goes to what RGrund said about some of the things KC said about CA as well.

 

[SuziQ]

I have wondered many times if Casey did indeed use the trunk as a nighttime babysitter (maybe with some Benadryl or Xanax to help). Nighttime temps in FL are not unbearable, especially in the spring into early summer, so it's entirely possible to me that she did this to Caylee. :maddening: I do still wonder what the he!! she did with her during the daytime, though. I guess they could have gone to parks, malls, etc. until it was time for her to come home from "working."

Which ex was it (Ricardo?) that said Caylee was with them all night and then she was gone? Casey said her mom wanted her to bring Caylee home that morning. The funny thing was he said Casey wasn't gone that long. :waitasec:

 

[Just Jayla]

ITA in part. I just wonder because ICA was telling a lot of "friends" that she was going to get the family home (lol)...that she wasn't thinking about ridding herself of GA, and possibly CA. JMO.

I do think it is interesting that the molestation story from ICA started when she moved in with the Grunds after she had Caylee...this was after GA had left the home and come back...he wasn't buying her lies, her "job" etc...she wanted him gone...because as even CA has said they were so close at that point. When GA was gone. He comes back and isn't buying ICA's bullchit. I talked about this with another poster and she thinks it is because ICA didn't want the A's close to the Grundes so that the two families couldn't compare notes on ICA. Look it, at some point even the RG got fed up with ICA leaving Caylee all of the time with them. He didn't really believe she had a job either...and when he calls her out on the whole "we can't watch Caylee 24/7" she responds with "Don't worry. I have a nanny." and very soon thereafter ICA removes herself from JG and the family and moves back home. As soon as her bluff is called she just reinvents another lie...likely to her family about how awful the G's were (IMO) and moves back home...and then says hateful things about the G's to her family to keep them from comparing notes. It is very insightful, imo, about how ICA really operates. She gets found out and then she lies...and sadly, people just believe her initially.

Another great thought-So, she wanted GA gone because he was onto her? He was spoiling her fun? And when he came back to the home, her next weapon was molestation claims.
Hmmm....wonder why she wanted Caylee gone and what lengths she would go to?

 

[GennyMac]

Physical, sexual, or mental abuse is really a dangerous and slippery slope for this DT.

If she was abused, where are the police reports?
If she was abused, where are the hospital/ER reports?
If she was abused, why didn't CA use this in the divorce negotiations to keep GA from getting half of everything?


The adult children of abuse know abuse. They recognize almost like a scent or a taste - if you have been abused, it is almost intuitive to recognize it in someone else.

I lived with a horrific alcoholic from birth till 2 days before my Sr year of high school. He passed from a heart attack (better than at my hands, thank you Lord). The violence did not start until I was about 8 or 9.

Every single day was an exercise in survival and figuring out how to continue to function. Therapists have referred to me as a 'highly functioning' abuse victim. While I understand the concept, I just don't spend time thinking about it. All I know is that I just refused to allow him to ruin my life, stood up to him and struck back when I was struck.

I do know that others who have had the same, and much worse, life experiences have been impacted quite differently than I have. Their lives are much different and they have not been successful in shaking off the residue of abuse.

But when I look at CA, read her depos,interviews, hear CA and GA talk, watch them with Lee, watch Lee............ I do see a highly dysfunctional family, sad family situation........I do not sense abuse of the nature the DT is trying to interject here.

If there is a juror who has lived with abuse, that juror will see straight through this, unless he or she wants to 'associate' themselves with her, then they'll fly the 'feel sorry for her' flag.

 

[Itsy]

Which ex was it (Ricardo?) that said Caylee was with them all night and then she was gone? Casey said her mom wanted her to bring Caylee home that morning. The funny thing was he said Casey wasn't gone that long. :waitasec:

I think you're right about it being Ricardo, but someone with a better memory than me would know for sure, lol.

 

[Moe]

Well if it was nighttime she was probably in the trunk. Poor baby.

Does anyone else think CA found out about the trunk on Father's Day? Caylee was talking, and I have always thought she dropped a bomb during her outing to visit Grampa at the nursing home. This may have been the reason for the big blow out that night.

 

[Just Jayla]

This probably should go on its own thread, but as to AH's statement that bad parents do not have good children...First, untrue....
Second, Casey was not a parent to Caylee, so that statement does not reflect upon Casey at all. It reflects on George and Cindy, even with their faults-A woman who nurses the elderly (successfully, as a supervisor), goes to check on her own parents religiously, which is more than can be said for two of CA's brothers, and has just become a grandmother is likely the type to nurture and raise a happy child. Maybe too happy and spoiled, maybe that's part of Casey's malfunction and a weakness for CA that could have caused Caylee to be a "fun" teenager later on-I would take a bratty teenage Caylee over Caylee dead in the woods in a trashbag any day, though....and I'm straying...

 

[strach304]

IIRC, she also told this story to RM and JG. Why would a girl tell something like this to only her boyfriends? What is the motive or psychology there? She never told girlfriends? She never told male friends like RyanP, or SeanD?
Did she tell earlier boyfriends this (was ChrisS earlier?), or did this story start after Caylee was born?

I don't recall her telling RM that just JG and TL. I think she thought they would offer to let her move in with them plus the sympathy factor.

 

[LinasK]

Queen parody: Another one rides the bus, and another gets on, and another gets on, another rides the bus!!!

 

[Itsy]

Does anyone else think CA found out about the trunk on Father's Day? Caylee was talking, and I have always thought she dropped a bomb during her outing to visit Grampa at the nursing home. This may have been the reason for the big blow out that night.

Could be, but I'll bet we'll never know. I do believe that Caylee told CA some pretty bad things that had been going on at that time (maybe pot smoking, being in the bed with Casey & the guy of the month, where they were when Casey was working, etc.). But I think that if Caylee had told CA about being in the trunk, CA's reaction would have been totally different the day she & GA got the car and smelled the decomp odor. I think she would have put 2+2 together PDQ and taken care of Casey herself instead of calling the cops...

 

[strach304]

I don't believe it but let's give her the benefit of the doubt for a second and my response is still:

and?

I don't care if she was abused - it doesn't excuse her murdering her baby girl.

I'm taking it as an excuse for why she was afraid to tell her parents about Caylee missing. At best there may have been a one time incident where GA actually hit Casey. From what we've seen anytime GA did try and do something CA told him to back off, she would handle it.

 

[tlcya]

IIRC, she also told this story to RM and JG. Why would a girl tell something like this to only her boyfriends? What is the motive or psychology there? She never told girlfriends? She never told male friends like RyanP, or SeanD?
Did she tell earlier boyfriends this (was ChrisS earlier?), or did this story start after Caylee was born?

To gain sympathy of the current lover and garner protective feelings toward her.

To give the appearance of damaged goods who needs a big strong man to treat her right.

To explain her promiscuity (don't throw things - as a former abuse victim I can attest to the commonality of promiscuity of some female victims).

To explain her difficult relationship with the A's.

To pit them against the A's.

To pre-explain anything the A's might say to the current lover that conflicts with whatever BS ICA has told him.

 

[Moe]

If anyone, and I know this is politically incorrect, needed a spanking it was ICA.

 

[strach304]

ITA in part. I just wonder because ICA was telling a lot of "friends" that she was going to get the family home (lol)...that she wasn't thinking about ridding herself of GA, and possibly CA. JMO.

I do think it is interesting that the molestation story from ICA started when she moved in with the Grunds after she had Caylee...this was after GA had left the home and come back...he wasn't buying her lies, her "job" etc...she wanted him gone...because as even CA has said they were so close at that point. When GA was gone. He comes back and isn't buying ICA's bullchit. I talked about this with another poster and she thinks it is because ICA didn't want the A's close to the Grundes so that the two families couldn't compare notes on ICA. Look it, at some point even the RG got fed up with ICA leaving Caylee all of the time with them. He didn't really believe she had a job either...and when he calls her out on the whole "we can't watch Caylee 24/7" she responds with "Don't worry. I have a nanny." and very soon thereafter ICA removes herself from JG and the family and moves back home. As soon as her bluff is called she just reinvents another lie...likely to her family about how awful the G's were (IMO) and moves back home...and then says hateful things about the G's to her family to keep them from comparing notes. It is very insightful, imo, about how ICA really operates. She gets found out and then she lies...and sadly, people just believe her initially.

The molestation allegations to JG at that time were about Lee.

 

[Just Jayla]

I don't recall her telling RM that just JG and TL. I think she thought they would offer to let her move in with them plus the sympathy factor.

Let me go back and listen to RM again before I keep perpetuating that. I just listened to his interview the other day and made a mental note that he also was told, but then, I am mental-soooooo.....kay bye!

(Be back after I listen)