2011.05.04 Verdict Watch

[Palomine]

wral WRAL NEWS in NC
Jury deliberates in Brad Cooper's murder trial http://bit.ly/ikYbXv
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[huck22]

I believe that was a preschool, not a daycare.

Then I clearly had the wrong impression. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[NCEast]

If murderers thought of everything, the prisons would be empty. There's a reason most murderers are caught, they leave evidence - as did Bradleee.

Interesting PS to your post. I heard just this week that the average murderer makes 30 mistakes in the commission of the crime.

 

[gbay]

One thing I've never understood is why the kids were in daycare if NC wasn't working and the couple was having financial problems. Childcare for two kids in Cary will run you about $2000 a month. If I was a controlling S.O.B. stressed about money, the first thing I would do is take the kids out of daycare.

Oh.... but he cared about status. It goes along with the BMW's, his iron men competitions, the things they bought. They could have done many things to cut back and should have communicated about it. It should never be an "I" decision it should be a "we" decision. One never gets "buy in" if decisions are forced on them.

 

[grommet]

As far as the green card......I don't understand why Brad wasn't busting his butt to help Nancy, so that she could work. Such a contradiction, he complains about lack of money and too much spending, yet doesn't do the one thing that could have enabled them to have more money. For me, it shows another sign of his controlling Nancy.

Does anyone know if Nancy actually wanted to work? The extreme financial numbers of the separation agreement seem to indicate that she still wanted to be a full time stay-at-home mother and was looking for enough money from the estranged ex-husband to support such a goal.

 

[Danielle59]

I feel horrible for the women in this forum that have experienced abuse. Your stories are gut wrenching. But I honestly don't see how you relate Nancy's experience prior to July 12th to what you experienced. I would like to leave the events of July 12th out of this because there are people that don't believe he killed her. But prior to July 12th, the only things I see from him that he controlled were finances and the ability for her to take their kids and leave the country. The finances are a bit of a different story since she didn't have a green card and couldn't work. I get that. She didn't have her own money. But there were none of the other signs of abuse that you always hear about. He didn't isolate her from her friends. He didn't isolate her from her family. He didn't hit her. He didn't berate her and destroy her self esteem (at least not that I am aware of). He put her on an allowance (a fairly generous one) and took that passports (actually only wanted to take one). I honestly do not see how that relates to the experiences you ladies have shared on here. Honestly, she relied on her parents for lots of things, including money. If he was truly abusive, could she not have left, with the kids, and had her parents support her until it got worked out? Could she have gone to court to let the court decide if she was allowed to go back to Canada with the kids? They probably would have ruled that she had to since she wasn't a US Citizen and didn't have a green card. There were avenues she could have taken and she didn't. But I simply don't see how it adds up to abuse. Maybe that's because I'm a guy and just don't "get it".

I am not a guy and I totally agree with you and saw no abuse towards her on his part either. The allowance really was necessary too from what is sounds like in regards to their finances, I don't think he was withholding money from her. I think that sometimes people allow their own personal experiences to jade their view, they make what they experienced the experience of someone else even when there really is no correlation.

 

[iucpa]

For those who have been to the courtroom, what floor/room number is it in? I'd like to go this afternoon but don't know where to go/what to do. TIA

 

[cityslick]

She was not financially independent......

She wasn't limited to what she could spend until Feb 2008, at least I haven't heard of that prior to then. I get the impression that you think she was living some indentured servitude lifestyle the whole time she was married to him and I don't think that was the case. Like I said, it didn't bother her that much as late as 2007 because she was willing to purchase a new house together.

I for one am not blaming her for her situation. I think her life in that house got incredibly more unbearable post Feb 2008. He was primarily responsible for that.

 

[Lori59]

Does anyone know if Nancy actually wanted to work? The extreme financial numbers of the separation agreement seem to indicate that she still wanted to be a full time stay-at-home mother and was looking for enough money from the estranged ex-husband to support such a goal.

Yes she wanted to work. Was doing what she could without a green card....painting for friends. Also, separation agreements are drafted with the present circumstances at hand, which was she was a stay at home mom. If she got a job in the future, the support arrangements could be amended to reflect any changes.

 

[Madeleine74]

So he was able to wipe all the traces of a spoofed call but missed out on those simple things that anyone that has taken a basic A+ course would know how to do?

Seriously.. some of you want him guilty so bad you're willing to completely overlook anything and everything that doesnt fit the mold. Do you work for the Cary PD by chance?

He didn't wipe all traces of anything. He discarded a router. Specifically, a 3825 router. Cisco has call logs that show, on 7/11/08 around 10:30pm Cooper using that router. That's the router. They chose not to bring that particular Cisco employee into court during rebuttal. But it does exist. We heard all about it on the WRAL feed.

He also erased the test calls on his cell phone so they would not appear in the call log. But those calls do appear on the AT&T records.

The defense isn't saying someone hacked into Nancy's RR email and set it up. Yet Brad did it. Got caught doing it. They recovered emails showing he READ the forwarded emails too. Showed those right on the overhead screen in court. I was there that particular day. Saw it with my own two eyes.

No amount of spin can change the basic facts of this case or of this murder.

 

[gorealtors]

For those who have been to the courtroom, what floor/room number is it in? I'd like to go this afternoon but don't know where to go/what to do. TIA

It's 3B or 3D, can't remember. Take elevator to 3rd floor, take right off elevator and go down small hall. Room on your left.

 

[cityslick]

If murderers thought of everything, the prisons would be empty. There's a reason most murderers are caught, they leave evidence - as did Bradleee.

There are reasons why innocent men/women are in jail as well.

 

[kar]

When a person is here as the dependant of someone being sponsored by a company, what happens when they get divorced? Do they have to leave the country when the divorce is final?

 

[ncsu95]

And some equate anything less than lockstep support for the State's case with blaming the victim.

Question aspects of the victims behavior or actions which are detrimental to the State's case? you're blaming the victim.

Question the truthfulness or accuracy of some or any allegations of abuse towards the defendent? you're blaming the victim.

Yes, this is a victim friendly site - everyone understands and acknowledges that, its a good concept, and its what makes this site what ist is. However, when discussing an actual trial and the testimony/evidence you cannot imply that part of that which does not reflect positively on the victim should be ignored.

:applause:

 

[Guerrmo]

The logic people use to say "Brad was 'too smart' to use Google Maps cause that would be dumb to do that" negates the fact that Brad *did* use Google Maps.

My comments about Google Maps had nothing to do with BC's intelligence. The point I was tying to make is that I can't envision a senario where "anybody" would use Google Maps to search for a location to do anything at all, much less something as critical as dumping a body. Google Maps is not in realtime, isn't always accurate, the resolution is inadequate, etc... Up until a few months ago, a search on my home address returned my neighbor's house,not mine. The house that was actually my house had a car in the driveway that I haven't owned in several years. Like trying to hit a fastball with a rolled up newspaper, Google Maps simply doesn't seemed to be suited for this purpose. I would think that this is something that would have been glaringly apparent to BC and anybody else that tried to use it for this purpose. And the fact that he simply "did" use Google Maps, as you stated, proves very little. I use it frequently. Lots of people do. But if I'm looking for a place to shoot BB guns with my son (which is about as close to lawlessness as I get), I'm still going to find and visit the location in person to make sure there are no houses nearby, no roads, etc... But the more salient point here, IMO, is that, unless I missed something, which is entirely possible, the prosecutor failed to adequately connect the Google Maps search to the crime by failing to present a plausible scenario where Google Maps might be useful in searching for a location to dispose of a body.

 

[Lori59]

She wasn't limited to what she could spend until Feb 2008, at least I haven't heard of that prior to then. I get the impression that you think she was living some indentured servitude lifestyle the whole time she was married to him and I don't think that was the case. Like I said, it didn't bother her that much as late as 2007 because she was willing to purchase a new house together.

I for one am not blaming her for her situation. I think her life in that house got incredibly more unbearable post Feb 2008. He was primarily responsible for that.

I never said anything close to calling her an indentured servant. And, yes her spending was limited once Brad knew she was getting out of the marriage for good. Control. Late 2007, sadly she was still trying to sustain her awful marriage.

 

[Grammy Jean]

For those who have been to the courtroom, what floor/room number is it in? I'd like to go this afternoon but don't know where to go/what to do. TIA

It is in 3C

 

[Danielle59]

I think there are parts I don't see as 'controlling', the allowance is not something I thought was. I could see the financial aspect of doing that. The passport issue was something I could relate to as being controlling, it directly controlled what could have been a threatening situation already, the children. It took the threat a step further. Made it more of an action. IMHO, the children were a big worry for NC. She was able to figure out a plan of action to make money. A plan. When it came to the children, there was no plan. Just constant limbo. You can't leave with the children, you can' get a job to feed them or house them, you can't ask the other to leave, they won't even negotiate terms of a divorce. I relate inthose areas. FWIW, there are still people today, who will say they would not have believed certain things about someone I was divorced. Until it was out in the open and on paper, it was shocking. The turning off the water was controlling IMHO. Another threat to show she could not care for her children. She had very little money, no way to care of her children the way they deserved. BC didn't do that and it affected just her. Again, its not so much the threats that start to tear your mental state apart, its what action you perceives backs up the threat.


Kelly

I am only going to reply to the items I bolded. They were his children too. My understanding from the custody documents, they ordered the passports together, she received the mail and hid them. Was that not contolling on her part? Why shouldn't he have one so that the children, which were also his, could not be whisked out of the country?

I don't believe that he had the water turned off intentionally, it seems that a bill was inadvertently not paid and as soon as it was turned off it was turned back on the same afternoon. I believe that it had happened 12 times in the past also. No one has been able to answer this question for me, but I was under the impression that she paid the bills until February.

 

[gorealtors]

It is in 3C

Thanks, Grammy. I was wrong all the way around. At least I had the directions right.:doh:

 

[Star12]

I've only followed this blog intermittently. My damn job keeps getting in the way. But I don't agree with this statement. How long the jury deliberatates, IMO, really depends on the make-up of the inital vote. The more divided they are the longer it takes to reach a verdict, regardless of whether they are leaning in favor of G or NG.

other thoughts...

I have a great deal of sympathy for those who have endured domestic abuse, and fully believe that most abuse is both unseen and unheard. But BC's guilt or innocence has to be based exclusively on fact, and the lack of hard evidence supporting a history of domestic abuse actually works in the defense's favor IMO. It also undermines the credibility of the CPD/Chief Bazemore, and lends support to the defense's contention that CPD had tunnel vision in regard to BC when they declared it a case of domestic violence right out fo the gate, apparently without having any substantive proof.

IMO, the CPD committed a monumental blunder when they failed to secure BC's computer(s), NC's cell phone, etc... as evidence, and allowed non-experts to mess with them. It allowed the defense to explain away a lot of evidence as tampering, like the otehrwise damning Google Maps search. The computer, cell phones, etc..., should have been secured, and the examination left exclusively to forensic IT experts.

Speaking of Google Maps, I'm still trying to get my head around why someone would use it to search for a location to dump a body. It's cool, and has its purpose, but even an uber-IT person is not going to use it for something like this. Most people wouldn't use it to find a location for a picnic, much less dump a body.
As I said, I've only been able to follow this intermittently, so you you won't hurt my feelings if you correct me or have a difference of opinion. But if I'm on the jury, based on what I heard & read, I'm probably voting NG.

BBM
How about this scenario then: There is this really neat spot in North Raleigh that I stumbled upon a couple weeks ago. My friends want to go on a picnic. while I remember the general area it is in I can't remember just where I should turn off Millbrook road to get there. I put 27609 into the search bar to bring up the map, and have to zoom and scroll a bit to find the name of the road to turn on to get to the right place.

IMHO BC found that secluded site off Fielding Rd while Nancy was on vacation. when he made up his mind to finally get rid of his wife, he just needed to check the name of that road and double check his lefties and righties.

and I will just leave alone the rest of your post.