2011.05.04 Verdict Watch

[Cheyenne130]

I know they spent like 2 hours going through green juice vs. juicy juice, but I cant remember which witness that was.

Did they do that with a state exhibit or did they use the defense exhibit?

 

[sunshine05]

By the way...wasn't one of the 4 phone records request for Aug 8th? Is that the day Det. Y first messed with NC's BB?

I haven't even looked at those yet. Could be.

 

[dramamama]

If you are going to quote me, please quote me correctly, I said:

I think you are trying to over simply things, but that is ok, go ahead. I know what I said and so do others if they look at everything said and don't add words inbetween.

Fine, i stand corrected. Then they are both guilty. But since they don't like each other, how does that work?

 

[WolfpackWoman]

Did they do that with a state exhibit or did they use the defense exhibit?

It was their [prosecution] witness, so it had to be their exhibit. But I honestly can't remember if it was through Young or Dismukes. I think Young, but I'm not certain. I know that State's exhibit also covered AFTER the kids went to Canada, and the defense exhibit was just the 4ish months before.

Edit: Apparently it was with Dismukes: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/03/19/1063724/time-of-cooper-death-is-unclear.html (Off topic, and not related to juice discussion, but this same article is the one where Gessner accuses Kurtz of misleading the jury by saying John Pearson changed his story to Dismukes... guess that one wasn't so misleading).

 

[gbay]

By the way...wasn't one of the 4 phone records request for Aug 8th? Is that the day Det. Y first messed with NC's BB?

No..it was a bit confusing though. They asked for the Aug. 8 copy of Brads July cell phone records. Originally everyone thought they wanted the outgoing calls from Aug. 8 from Brad's cell

 

[gbay]

I know they spent like 2 hours going through green juice vs. juicy juice, but I cant remember which witness that was.

I remember Krista talking about it.

 

[Danielle59]

No it's not. There are 2 HUGE issues with doing this. First, you move the debt from an unsecured asset to a secured asset. If you don't pay your credit card bill, there isn't a whole heck of a lot they can do. They'll eventually sue you (maybe), but that could take forever. If you don't pay your heloc (due to job loss, emergency, whatever), they will take your house. Second, most people that take a heloc to consolidate debt don't change the behavior that got them there in the first place. So they run the credit cards right back up because they feel like they accomplished something by "paying off their debt". Of course, they didn't pay off anything. The Coopers did that (his check against his credit card bounced).

How about just pay off your debt, cut up your credit cards, and pay for the stuff you buy with money. I've been debt free (except mortgage) for 6 years now. Life is so much calmer this way. Another 7 and I'll be mortgage free as well. I'll never borrow another dollar as long as I live.

15 years for me, and my mortgage was a 10 year loan so I saved mucho much on interest, will be paid off in seven years also.

 

[Cheyenne130]

It was their [prosecution] witness, so it had to be their exhibit. But I honestly can't remember if it was through Young or Dismukes. I think Young, but I'm not certain. I know that State's exhibit also covered AFTER the kids went to Canada, and the defense exhibit was just the 4ish months before.

Edit: Apparently it was with Dismukes: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/03/19/1063724/time-of-cooper-death-is-unclear.html (Off topic, and not related to juice discussion, but this same article is the one where Gessner accuses Kurtz of misleading the jury by saying John Pearson changed his story to Dismukes... guess that one wasn't so misleading).

But the jury requested the defense exhibit, correct?

 

[kantoo]

No..it was a bit confusing though. They asked for the Aug. 8 copy of Brads July cell phone records. Originally everyone thought they wanted the outgoing calls from Aug. 8 from Brad's cell

it's upthread, but the records were from the date that ATT sent them.

the calls were from the morning of the 12th.

 

[sunshine05]

I don't recall the state having HT records. Do you remember which witness that came through?

Cummings held them up in closing and talked about how BC bought green juice 13 times since the girls moving to Canada. That's the only time I remember them talking about the grocery purchases but I may have missed it.

 

[WolfpackWoman]

But the jury requested the defense exhibit, correct?

Yes--that's correct. They wanted the defense exhibit. I thought you were asking if there WAS a prosecution HT exhibit.

 

[Danielle59]

That's probably right! I know I have hundreds of them, and can never find one when I want one.

They hide on you, you put them right where you are sure you will be able to find them, go to get them and they are gone. I find them i the oddest places. I think my pets play with them also when I am not looking.

 

[otto]

Do you think being locked away for 2.5 years in a jail cell, with jail food, little sun may have something to do with how he looks? Especially if he is innocent. I don't think JA has been enduring those conditions.

I thought he looked white as a ghost in court today.

 

[sunshine05]

They hide on you, you put them right where you are sure you will be able to find them, go to get them and they are gone. I find them i the oddest places. I think my pets play with them also when I am not looking.

I know! Maybe I'll start wearing one on my hand like Cummings did. (did you catch that during closing)?

 

[Danielle59]

If there was not one single qualifier of an abusive relationship there, then why have so many posters come forward and shared their personal stories and say they relate to NC? Were you in a DV marriage? If your answer is no, perhaps you need to spend less time invalidating the emotional experiences of many others, and devote more time to trying to identify with those experiences.

You can't stop thinking about JA? Well, I can't stop thinking about BC and his face yesterday when Cummings finished his closing.

.

Everyone sees what they want to see, if you see even one thing that makes you think of your DV experience then your emotions transfer it and expound on it to include others. But, that is not always the case. I don't think anyone, those that see or those that don't, should get jumped on for their opinions. No one tried to invalidate anyone's emotional experiences, but we are talking about this specific case, not everyone else's experiences. I don't think there was DV in that marriage from BC to NC.

I didn't see any change in BCs face yesterday at closing from any other day, he didn't change his expression at all.

If people don't want people to comment on what they share then they shouldn't share it because you are not always going to get just the comments that you would prefer to hear, but we all do have the right to express an opinion.

 

[Danielle59]

When did BC lie to the police and lead the investigation? I missed that. Can you cite some specifics? Not the custody deposition, that doesn't count, that wasn't the police.

BTW, it is not against the law or obstruction to not talk to the police.

When someone gives a deposition, they swear under an oath just like they are a witness in a trial.

You didn't answer the question. How did he lead the investigation astray?

 

[ncsu95]

I have to admit that I wasn't seeing any motive in murder to avoid child support. Hearing about some of the debt and expenses, I can see how this murder fits into a typical spousal homicide based on out of control spending with no way to stop it or get ahead of it. I can see that Brad was facing an overwhelming debt situation. He could have viewed his life has having provided for Nancy and the children, and in 2008 they were going to disappear from his life and he was going to be resonsible for all the debt and be expected to provide for them as he had in the past. We know they talked about the debt because Nancy mentioned meetings with a financial planner. The question is why nothing was done to curb the spending. I think he probably felt backed into a corner with no where to go. I think Jason Young also falls into the category of someone that couldn't see a way to manage financially (but that was because Michelle was going to take time off for the children).

Before anyone suggests I'm blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm merely coming to my own understanding of a possible motive for the murder.

I believe they had enough equity in the house to sell it and pay off all of the debts.

 

[dramamama]

Everyone sees what they want to see, if you see even one thing that makes you think of your DV experience then your emotions transfer it and expound on it to include others. But, that is not always the case. I don't think anyone, those that see or those that don't, should get jumped on for their opinions. No one tried to invalidate anyone's emotional experiences, but we are talking about this specific case, not everyone else's experiences. I don't think there was DV in that marriage from BC to NC.

I didn't see any change in BCs face yesterday at closing from any other day, he didn't change his expression at all.

If people don't want people to comment on what they share then they shouldn't share it because you are not always going to get just the comments that you would prefer to hear, but we all do have the right to express an opinion.

Yes, but my point is opinions formed with experience and/or research hold more value than anything else. So if neither if those things can back your opinion, then why comment? Can you respect an opinion different from your own that is based on experience and still come to the conclusion that BC is innocent? And if some posters can, then why do they find it necessary to continually comment on the abuse issue?

If this wasn't an abusive situation in any way, then why didn't the defense put on an expert in DV to testify that this was simply a murder and there were no signs of DV? Perhaps because they couldn't.

 

[Danielle59]

I know! Maybe I'll start wearing one on my hand like Cummings did. (did you catch that during closing)?

I do wear the softer ones, the ones that have like terry cloth around them, on my wrists sometimes. That had to hurt his hand. LOL

 

[dramamama]

You didn't answer the question. How did he lead the investigation astray?

Lying and/or changing stories leads an investigation astray. Sorry, I thought you were following the trial. BC did that. And if he didn't, then there wouldn't be a trial right now.

My point has been since this started, that some will call out any witness in any inconsistency and say, "LIAR!!!!"

And yet the biggest one is on trial.

Note, i have never said I didn't think JA had things she said that didn't line up or make sense. But I didn't feel threatened to admit that. In fact, looking at that helped me be even more sure that BC did it.

However, when have you ever admitted BC or the defense has said or done something that you questioned? When?