2011.05.12 Nancy Grace

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  • #41
I read Andrea Lyon's book when it came out several months ago. In it, she describes the case of a young woman who said she killed her little girl because her parents said they were going to get custody of her. The young woman was so terrified that the child would be subjected to the same horrendous sexual abuse she, herself, had endured at the hands of her father, acquiesced to by her mother, that she killed the child rather than allow that to happen.

I no longer remember the details, exactly, but as I was reading, I wondered if KC's DT might try the same story. It was successful for that client.

LOL then I would seriously have to question KC's credibility and sense of motherhood. Didn't she repeatedly leave Caylee with her parents while she went out and partied. I mean she even created a fantasy job to give herself the excuse. In no way did she ever seem to fear the A's treatment of herself or Caylee.

And she also doesn't seem to have mentioned to any friends anything about any abuse other than a couple of off hand comments about sex abuse, but even then she doesn't seem to have made clear who the sex abuse was from. Was it GA? Or was it LA? Or maybe she doesn't remember? Or maybe she just named whoever she was mad at at the time?
 
  • #42
The book was, "Angel of Death Row" by Andrea Lyon. And yeah, if this is the story they use, this will be exactly where they got it.

Perelandra I think might just be on the money with this defense strategy so I looked the book up to order it.

While waiting for it to arrive I found these references for anyone that is interested in comparing the two cases and defense of--

[ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/23990273/Excerpt-from-Angel-of-Death-Row-by-Andrea-Lyon"]Excerpt from Angel of Death Row by Andrea Lyon[/ame]

The excerpt includes chapter one which is the case you referenced.

The woman who killed her child is named Annette Gaines. If the someone eventually starts a thread if the defense looks like it's going to mirror this case in some ways. I'll be happy to do some more archival research (unless others do it first :))

JFYI

( mods please delete if it bogs down this thread or is inappropriate. TY)
 
  • #43
I figured as much. Very unprofessional, but what else is new with Baez & Co.?


Honestly, I have zero love for defense lawyers...but guess what? If I ever find myself in need of one, I'll be calling one. lol They're just doing their jobs the best they can. I think it's smart to float them now, read places like here to see angles they may not have thought of and attempt to explain away the holes in their latest defense theories.
 
  • #44
Who is responsible for leaking information about the DT's strategy and/or contents of opening statement to the media just days before the trial is set to begin?

When Anne Finnell was questioning a PJ,HHJP asked her to give the laundry list and she did so in open court ,before HH stopped her.It's not a leak.

ETA: her questions were for mitigation during the penalty phase,not the guilt phase,so it may not be the defense,initially.
 
  • #45
Respectfully snipped and brought over from a post by Frigga from another thread....within that post, were listed the "mitigating" factors as stated by AF during jury selection....I'm almost sure there are more but, HHJP stopped her from going on and on.

AF read:

"age, lack of maturity, lack of impulse control, history of sexual abuse, suffers from insomnia and nightmares, lack of parental guidance, mother and father failed to protect her as a child, verbally and emotionally abused as a child, fact that she was taught poor coping skills and has poor coping skills by normal standards, taught to project false appearance, used as a decoy or pawn by her parents and a scapegoat for parental misconduct, her conduct in school was good, her grades were better than average, she participated in sports, when employed she was a good hard working employee, she loved Caylee and Caylee loved her, she has been a good detainee at the jail while awaiting trial, she has helped... tried to help..."


Bolded and "blued" by me....whenever I've been involved in discussions about victims of childhood sexual abuse, almost ALWAYS, that same statement comes up - either by the victim, or a therapist.
IMO, often times, it infers that the victim's parents didn't "protect" their child from the "abuser"....not actually either parent being the abuser....

Maybe that big 'ol bus ISN'T goin' down "George Street" at all....maybe there's another poor soul being brought into Miss KC's web of lies?? Maybe, who knows, do we dare even venture to guess who it might be??? IF this is what the veiled message in AF's summary of some mitigating factors was implying with the "protect" comment.. I place my bet on CA's brother, Rick....no love lost there....he was pretty vocal about the family disfunction from the start and didn't hold back on other details...like KC's pregnancy, etc....and, IIRC, he basically told CA she was a wacko, as well. He dared to cross the "Cindy" line...no "mistruths" from him!! Just seems to me, he might be a new "victim" in this circus.

Just pure and TOTAL speculation....not fact....just IMO.
 
  • #46
I know this isn't a popular opinion but think it's possible that Casey was abused, sexually or otherwise. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. I have no real evidence that it happened but I have no evidence it didn't either. Just because Casey is a sociopath (IMHO) doesn't mean she wasn't abused. HOWEVER no abuse justifies killing a child. Ever. If Casey went through abuse I do have sympathy for her - no one deserves that no matter how messed up they are. But that sympathy won't extend in any way to giving her a pass for her actions.

I'm wondering if the DT is planning on going with the accident theory and saying that Casey just couldn't tell because of the abuse she endured and the messed up family dynamics that had turned Casey into a messed up individual. I don't think the DT could use the abuse excuse to explain a deliberate killing of Caylee but they might think they could stretch that to cover an accidental killing of Caylee. (I personally don't think that is what happened, I think Casey purposely murdered Caylee in cold blood).

The statement of Finell's that really has me wondering is that Casey was used as a decoy to cover up her parents own misdeeds. Is this a sign that the DT is going with the GA killed Caylee scenario? Or possibly that Casey took the fall for GA for stealing/misusing family money? Remember the money that GA admitted to police he lost in the online money scam? The same money that he has alternately said he lost in online gambling? There have been other speculations as to what he really did with that money but I won't go into that because I'm not sure if that violates rules and I don't want to be tossed! Anyhow I think this might be where the DT is going with the "Casey used as a decoy for her parents misdeeds". They might say the money Casey was accused of stealing had actually been stolen by GA - that's less of stretch (IMHO) than that GA killed Caylee and Casey is covering for him. What do you all think?

Love your post BTW...........

This is exactly what I was wondering...........that GA and CA forced ICA to claim GA's money losses were hers - so it wouldn't affect their credit or finances? Was CA claiming all the money being drained from her account was ICA instead of GA to keep face with the family? Her mother SP paints a different picture.......claiming CA wouldn't divorce GA because it meant losing half her stuff.....so why stay with HIM if he was spending her stuff, I mean money??? She'd run out anyhow and still be stuck with him.....

hmmmmmmmmm..........I think your post is spot on, but I also think the SA will tear it apart as fast and you and I did.
 
  • #47
Yes I read that too. That might be where they are going with this but I don't think it's their best option nor do I think it will work with a jury.

I think a better option is the accident theory with Casey too scared to tell. The DT could highlight how CA acted like SHE was Caylee's mother and say that Casey was terrified (as she in fact said she was) of her mother and "knew she would never be forgiven" if something bad happened to Caylee. They could even explain the heart shaped sticker as a crazy but intended to be loving "goodbye" to her child. I'm not saying I think this will work with a jury either but at least it fits in better with the facts of the case (IMHO) than blaming GA directly does.

ITA......this would have been the most logical explanation. It was an accident and I was terrified of the consequences because my mom is a scary controlling B@#ch!!!!!!! So for 31-days I partied like it was 1999 because eventually my party would be over forever...........

Not very likeable, but believable and probably would avoid DP.....JMHO
 
  • #48
Respectfully snipped and brought over from a post by Frigga from another thread....within that post, were listed the "mitigating" factors as stated by AF during jury selection....I'm almost sure there are more but, HHJP stopped her from going on and on.

AF read:

"age, lack of maturity, lack of impulse control, history of sexual abuse, suffers from insomnia and nightmares, lack of parental guidance, mother and father failed to protect her as a child, verbally and emotionally abused as a child, fact that she was taught poor coping skills and has poor coping skills by normal standards, taught to project false appearance, used as a decoy or pawn by her parents and a scapegoat for parental misconduct, her conduct in school was good, her grades were better than average, she participated in sports, when employed she was a good hard working employee, she loved Caylee and Caylee loved her, she has been a good detainee at the jail while awaiting trial, she has helped... tried to help..."


Bolded and "blued" by me....whenever I've been involved in discussions about victims of childhood sexual abuse, almost ALWAYS, that same statement comes up - either by the victim, or a therapist.
IMO, often times, it infers that the victim's parents didn't "protect" their child from the "abuser"....not actually either parent being the abuser....

Maybe that big 'ol bus ISN'T goin' down "George Street" at all....maybe there's another poor soul being brought into Miss KC's web of lies?? Maybe, who knows, do we dare even venture to guess who it might be??? IF this is what the veiled message in AF's summary of some mitigating factors was implying with the "protect" comment.. I place my bet on CA's bro....no love lost there....he was pretty vocal about the family disfunction from the start and didn't hold back on other details...like KC's pregnancy, etc. Just seems to me, he might be a new "victim" in this circus.

Just pure and TOTAL speculation....not fact....just IMO.

LA is the most logical option next to GA.........maybe that is why ICA was so emotional when she saw LA on the stand during the March hearings. She knew he was going to be her fall-guy. OR.............would CA be so horrible as to throw her own brother RP under the bus????? We know there is no love lost there........I mean if all they are doing is throwing people at random - well she probably would love that.
 
  • #49
So let me get this straight....

KC had an "f"'d up childhood, rife with abuse, both verbal & sexual. As a result she developed poor coping skills, wah-wah-wah, wah-wah-wah, yada, yada, yada. (It all became white noise to me).

Even if it was remotely true and Caylee's death was an accident, why not come clean about it? Do you think that I would stay 2 minutes longer than I had to in jail if all I had to do was 'fess up and give this same cockamamie "story"/explanation almost 3 years ago? Hell to the NO!

It took 3 years for this despicable excuse of a human being and her on-line/mail-in bottom dwelling law school "grads", aka as the "DT", to come up with this b.s. story??? How do these people sleep at night?

Of course they played their hand with Ann Finnell in court today -- to gauge the public's response so they could try to change their "story" in the next week or so before the case starts at trial if the public responds the way that I am today. And just looking at HLN, so many of the callers or absolutely IRATE with this defense for KC.

If the jury has the least bit of common sense, they will be pissed off and intellectually as offended as I am that the DT even tried to use this as the reason that KC murdered her child. I am so angry to actually "hear" this farfetched foolishness with my own ears today!

If it was an accident, why the OVERKILL with the duct tape you morons??!!

I need a shot of tequila, 2 glasses of wine and a cigarette (and I abhor smoking!). LOL

Something about actually hearing Ann Finnell speak those words today sent me off my rocker!!!!...

Thanks for letting me vent! I now need 2 high blood pressure pills. LOL
 
  • #50
Being sexually abused is no reason to kill your child and I don't think they are going to say that CA killed Caylee because she was abused as a child. It seems to me that they are going to say that she disposed of Caylee b/c of the trauma she endured as a child-that an accident occurred and she panicked and due to her dysfunctional family upbringing she handled it in her own twisted way.

I don't think they'll go for a defense of her killing Caylee so Caylee wouldn't be sexually abused by GA or LA. Why would she have had a baby in the first place and live in the same house as her so-called abusers? She could have smothered her early on to make it look like SIDS? Why wait til she was 2?? I don't get that.

Then again, I don't know what it is like to be abused-I'm sure it causes a horrible trauma that affects your judgement.
 
  • #51
Exactly- plus, where is the doctors reports, teacher reports, childhood friend reports and so on of the signs that this had been even slightly addressed before she ended up standing on trial for murdering her own child. How does this, in anyway, explain why she allegedly drugged, taped, hid, then dis-guarded her child in a muddy swamp and lied about it all for 31 days- while dancing on table tops, partying with new boyfriend, stealing from friends, lying to police and anyone with a heartbeat?

I'm not buying it one bit and I strongly suspect a jury will choke on it as well.

Telling Jesse beforehand, to me, was her way of trying to gain some sympathy from her boyfriend so he would get her out of that house because she was too lazy to work to get herself out. :twocents:

Telling the girl, Robyn- a stranger she met through a jail cell- that her dad and brother did things to her was her way of fitting in to that environment. :twocents:
It's a convenient, common and almost expected way to explain her bad behavior. The 'poor impulse control, bad parenting, inept way her parents handled her problems and their own, etc. is more of the same.
I could give you a 1000 examples how my parents failed me and my two sisters..........divorce, neglect at times (failing to pay attention when they should have).... all leading to teenaged angst. None of that would excuse either me or my sis' if we killed our children. Not just killed, but drug, tape and dump like garbage.

It's part of the promised CIRCUS...........and they will deliver. Not to worry.

Won't work. Ted Bundy was told his mother was his sister all his life- If that doesn't mess with ones head, nothing will, but he sat on death row for killing 30 some odd girls and eventually executed ..........no pass, I'm afraid.


BBM-She didn't even tell Robyn that much....she told her she thought she might remember that GA might have done something, IIRC.

Also in regards to Lee-The only way abuse is brought into the guilt phase of the trial is if it is to go to her guilt. So, she cannot be talking about Lee, why would Lee abusing her cause her to not admit to an accident? They must be speaking of GA & CA, of whom KC might be "scared" of admitting an accident to.
It's all bull puckey, but I don't think Lee would be a factor in the guilt phase, other than the defense trying to impeach him. Good luck with that.
 
  • #52
Susan Smith PROVED prior sexual abuse and her father (or stepfather) admitted to it on the stand and she STILL got life in prison.

I think the State is on top of things enough to pull all of those lovey dovey visits along with all of the lies and any juror will see right through this. It would not surprise me for GA to admit to all of this and perhaps even Lee but I truly don't think it will make a hoot in the end. She is still guilty of murder. Her upbringing may have made her a sociopath but being a sociopath does not give you a get of a jail free card or a lifetime pass to steal and murder your own child. She could have gotten help at so many avenues. Even if the defense states she killed Caylee to "save" her from the same abuse there were too many ways out for ICA other than murder. It is not like she was uneducated, poor and beat down so much that she felt she had no other option. Just the opposite. SHE was the CEO as reported by GA. She had free reign and called the shots as she wanted. THAT can be easily proven. She could do no wrong in the eyes of her family and their covering for her does not make me believe they were trying to make up for years of abuse.

And why would it take THREE FREAKIN' YEARS to come to this dandy excuse?

Makes me ill. I am so tired of people blaming their parents and childhood on every percieved wrong, misfortune or bad act I could just puke. There are so many who had it SO much worse even if she were abused at one point that I just don't buy into the whole...'poor me' carp.
 
  • #53
I wonder if it possible Casey was molested as a child.

Anything is possible. But I think that it is highly unlikely. Unfortunately, because KC has demonstrated that she plays so fast and loose with the truth that she is unable to be believed, we will never get to the real truth of the matter in this case, and the remaining Anthonys will live under the dark cloud of doubt and suspicion for the rest of their lives. This is their daughter and sister's final gift to them, her enduring legacy. After killing off the only good thing to come from her, she has to destroy the rest of her nuclear family too.
 
  • #54
Casey's Attorney Releases 'Angel Of Death Row' Book


Posted: 5:55 pm EST January 5, 2010
Updated: 6:39 pm EST January 5, 2010

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Casey Anthony’s high-profile death penalty attorney kicked-off the sale of her new book Tuesday.

Eyewitness News followed Andrea Lyon through each court hearing as she worked to build a defense that can save Casey Anthony from the death penalty for the murder of her daughter Caylee Marie Anthony

Guess we saw this coming....
 
  • #55
I am totally amazed. It took them this long to come up with this defense? That's the best they could do? I'm just baffled. Wonder if this has anything to do with CA and GA not showing up...
 
  • #56
Casey's Attorney Releases 'Angel Of Death Row' Book


Posted: 5:55 pm EST January 5, 2010
Updated: 6:39 pm EST January 5, 2010

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Casey Anthony’s high-profile death penalty attorney kicked-off the sale of her new book Tuesday.

Eyewitness News followed Andrea Lyon through each court hearing as she worked to build a defense that can save Casey Anthony from the death penalty for the murder of her daughter Caylee Marie Anthony

Guess we saw this coming....

Has anyone totalled how many people are getting rich off of the murder of Caylee?
 
  • #57
Put the cool-aid down now. LOL! She has never said one word of truth and we should believe her about this one? I don't buy it!!! She was never molested I would bet my years salary on that one! :banghead:

I think it is entirely possible that she was. I also know 100% it is no explanation, no mitigating factor, no excuse whatsoever for her actions. JMO.

Statistically It is estimated that 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys will have experienced an episode of sexual abuse while younger than 18 years. The numbers of boys affected may be falsely low because of reporting techniques (Botash, Ann, MD, Pediatric Annual, May, 1997).

Just because someone is a pathological liar does not make them immune to molestation or unable to tell a truth once in a while, albeit in the most self serving way. But if she was, it is a moot point IMO. I can honestly say not one of my children or grandchildren ever ended up drugged, dead in my trunk with duct tape over their mouths to be tossed out in the brush like so much garbage.
 
  • #58
I think the DT are going to play Casey's "don't worry I haven't told them anything" comment the first time she saw her parents on a jail visitation as meaning that she was reassuring the A's that she was continuing to keep the family "dirty secret" of the sexual abuse. It was nearly the first thing out of her mouth wasn't it?

I don't know if anything like that ever happened to Casey or not but I can easily see an abuse victim being anxious to assure the abusers that their cover hadn't been blown. Even though Casey was technically in a "safe" place and away from her parents. In relationships this dysfunctional there is something akin to Stockholm syndrome that exists. The victim tries to curry favor with the abusers by "projecting a false image" (to use AF's words) and by keeping the secret of their "misdeeds". It can take a very long time for a victim to be able to come forward and tell about their abuse even after they have been out of the physical reach of their abuser for a long time.

I also don't see Casey's anger at her parents as being incongruous with this scenario. Not every abuse victim becomes a passive, silent victim. Many victims kick back even though they have great fear of the consequences.

The problem is that I think all of the interplay in these types of relationships is very subtle and without extensive testimony from a psychiatrist that has spent a very long period of time studying Casey -- well I don't see how a jury is going to really accept this scenario as a defense.
 
  • #59
I'm really confuzzled. Wait, so DT is going to say ICA never reported Caylee dead or missing because of the family's history of keeping things on the down low and abuse?

That's completely inconsistent with ICA, screaming from the top of the hills, that she miscarried . She loved the attention and drama. The DT can't have it both ways.
 
  • #60
I think I finally understand completely where the defense was going with Dr. Wise's and Danzinger's possible testimony in the guilt phase & it is consistent with what AZ Lawyer was opining. A good friend of mine is a sexual abuse victim and in her younger days she was Miss PARTY and promiscuous & could seem to be emotionally cold at inappropriate times. Her psychologist told her her behaviors and emotionless personality were a direct result of the sex abuse that occurred in her childhood and IIRC told her such behaviors were very common among sex abuse victims. So I imagine that the defense will say that KC was upset at Caylee's kidnapping and/or death but her partying ways and seeming lack of emotion afterward was caused by sex abuse. That said, one would still have to believe that KC was sexually abused.
 
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