2011.06.10 Sidebar (Trial Day Fifteen)

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  • #701
Get ur maters' ready...........I'm going to say I think GA and CA very much are responsible in part for what happened to Caylee. As parents, they failed. They didn't even try. I'm sick of so many parents going "Oh.....but I tried", look around you you prolly' know some of them now. This is the end result of NOT raising a responsible child. Thank Goodness they don't all turn out this way. We witnessed time and time again over the last three years how G and C raised and dealt with ICA, it was shameful. Oh maybe I'm just mad at everything Anthony..............ughhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ignore me. I shall go take it out cleaning!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rocker:My maters aren't ripe yet..so none thrown. You post what I sometimes think....and I tried so hard to raise a resposible adult...and I know I did everything I could...but God knows I still feel resposible for her...and should she ever hurt someone I will feel responsible for that too. Thankfully, right now she is doing well...deep breath and that's why I am sooo freaking opinionated about this....sorry peeps...getting emotions back in check. Sometimes I wonder, does CA feel responsible?
 
  • #702
What I can't wrap my mind around is why would you duct tape the child's nose and mouth if this were an accident??? How will the DT explain that???

I understand that KC's first and second story was a kidnapping, but don't kidnappers usually send notes and want money??? Why would they kill the child by asphyxiation???

I've been having trouble figuring out the duct tape too. I am trying to only go by the testimony and evidence presented in court. So, today I learned Dr. (sorry, forget name) CAN state that the duct tape covered the mouth, but he CAN NOT say it had ever covered the nose. That information is actually MORE helpful to me with respect to trying to figure the duct tape out.

But now I need to hear evidence wrt whether or not this tape could have been placed pre-mortum or post-mortem. I'm just waiting for right now.
 
  • #703
  • #704
ICA's tissues should be examined for trace evidence of onions. Even those can't make the tears come

Maybe that was what she had in that small baggie yesterday.
 
  • #705
The original question was from another poster what is the difference between cause of death and manner of death, or are they the same. I suggested she go to the verified lawyer thread. After several different responses, I looked it up myself and they are the same thing.

Right,but I was responding to her question about it requiring an autopsy. The manner of death is noted on the death certificate and does not usually require an autopsy.
 
  • #706
IIRC, CA had her 50th birthday in early June 2008. That's a big milestone birthday for a woman. She probably wanted to retreat from primary child rearing and take on more of a traditional grandmother role. Just that fact tells me she was probably very conflicted about taking on the role of being a primary parent of a 2 year old!

However, just the fact that she discussed seeking an involuntary custody order for Caylee tells us volumes about what CA did see about ICA's parenting. CA discussed this with her therapist and perhaps others -- most probably with GA. However, seeking involuntary custody results in huge tension and rifts in a family.

About the same time, the law pertaining to Grandparents seeking just visitation of grandchildren was undergoing great changes across the nation. The courts were siding with the natural parents' rights to raise their child. (Basically, the last thing the seriously understaffed, underfinanced and overwhelmed family law courts need is to add a whole new genre of litigation to their impacted caseloads -- intergenerational litigation. This may change over time though as society wrestles with the effects of aggregious parenting, but it will take a generation or two of a combination of legislation and precedent court decisions based on that litigation to temper the current state of the law, which is a nearly complete shut-out of grandparents.)

If CA sought legal advice, it would not have been encouraging; thus it was easy to put it off. However, there was that big fight on June 15th. If GA's memory is not of the morning of June 16th but another routine morning, then maybe Caylee wasn't there. CA didn't see her that morning. ICA was on the computer that morning uploading photos, but she might have been alone without Caylee. The testimony is otherwise. The undercurrent of CA seeking custody and thinking ICA was an incompetent parent is a very important undercurrent to this case.

It was CA's mother that summed up this case more succinctly; something about ICA hating CA more than she loved Caylee. Revenge against CA could have been at least part of the motive.

You hit the nail on the head here ...
I sooo agree you.
 
  • #707
I believe that if Cindy knew that Casey was as bad as she is, then she would have done exactly that, if not pursued legal means of keeping Caylee. But I really believe she didn't know what Casey was capable of. So she wanted to push her to be a better mother. Cindy probably thought she was helping Casey, and helping Caylee to have a better mother. I don't think she thought Casey was bad, per se. Just not good enough.
ITA, and I have a lot of sympathy for Cindy and George. A lot of kids lie,and steal, and are difficult. I don't see how they could possibly have known that murdering Caylee was next. I also don't believe they would have been given custody. I think they were going to try, but I do not believe they would have succeeded. On what grounds?? Nothing that could be proven at the time imo.
 
  • #708
Ohhhhhhh I can't believe it!
I agree! He also forgot with the other expert and did it later on. I just hope he remembers to do it......
 
  • #709
:seeya:Hi Chiquita!! I totally get what you're saying and it makes me crazy and angry too! I think Cindy did love both her "girls" and was hoping that Caylee would somehow make Casey develop into a responsible caring person. What a fatal mistake that was and one she'll have to live with for the rest of her life. It's probably one of the reasons she fought so hard to accept the fact that her daughter did this!
Looking back-there were so many opportunities that weren't taken -if only Cindy had paid alittle closer attention and faced reality sooner about Casey - Caylee would be enjoying summer break from school right now!!:sigh:
This morning has made me sick to my soul between looking at that wretched creature and listening to the details of how Caylee's little body was discarded and dispersed by scavengers and put back together like puzzle pieces!!:banghead:
So I dedicate this song to Inmate Casey Marie Anthony!!:furious:

YouTube - ‪God's gonna cut you Down‬‏

I agree with you. And my favorite song of late has been that one with the chorus of, "I'm gonna watch you burn!" and "You're gonna get what you deserve." Yeah. Loving that song lately.
 
  • #710
Not to mention the dense vegetation and the tiny bones. Caylee's body could have been completely decomposed within just a few weeks due to the extreme heat and the dampness of that area.

I'm actually pretty amazed she was ever found.

JMHO

Just getting here today. I've spent the last hour trying to catch up with the day's events in the courtroom.

I had come to the conclusion that Caylee would never be found. The morning of Dec. 11, 2008 I got up and flipped on the television to hear the news that the remains of a small child were found just around the corner from the Anthony home. I was shocked! I got online to find everyone discussing the news.

We had watched the searches with Tim Miller and TES, and I remember people asking if the woods behind the Anthony home being searched and it was said that they had been searched, so it was surprising that Caylee was found there.
 
  • #711
I have ?? why did they have her using toilet paper to blow her nose today??
I can't find tweet that stated she was using TP and Sims was helping her by tearing off manageable sizes ??

I did find this tweet
#CaseyAnthony is back with what looks like a fistful of toilet paper or kleenex.
 
  • #712
i dont think the lawyer should be able to hug the inmate during court

thats sick

i must be heartless

I have been bugged by that too !!! I don't know how they can be allowed to be so "touchy-feelie" .
 
  • #713
There were 3-4 pieces of Henkel tape cut (or torn) into strips, and 3 of those were found stuck to Caylee's hair. I use my common sense and determine that those strips were deliberately applied, and I can think of no other purpose than that to kill Caylee. Couple this with the evidence found in Casey's car, the testimony from Casey's friends that say she was acting normal and happy (yet at that period of time Caylee wasn't seen), and it points directly to the killer.

Casey was celebrating. What mother of a healthy toddler does this immediately after their only child dies?
 
  • #714
I've had to do that myself. My oldest is bipolar. In all of that my ONLY goal was to get them help, to help the other siblings through this, and to make sure that in the big picture to understand cause and effect.

I have even had to turn my back on my child because I KNEW I could not help him. It was to help my other kids who had to take a back seat to their brother because he was in crisis.

I had to quit my job and my full time position was to make sure he got help. I had to go a whole summer without natural gas. I filed bankruptcy-it didn't matter-I had to help my child. OK sorry angry rambling again. I'll stop here. grrrrrr

Oh BTW My son is doing very well now, and my other children have all graduated HS and are all attending college.

:rocker:You really, really ROCK and I admire you so much...I know that was so hard on you.
 
  • #715
You hit the nail on the head here ...
I sooo agree you.

Another thing that bears consideration, at least in my mind, is that there seems to have been a rapid escalation in ICA's behaviour. New friends, new boyfriend, etc. So I don't think she had been really "out of control", in terms of partying, prior to that.

Just MO
 
  • #716
Right,but I was responding to her question about it requiring an autopsy. The manner of death is noted on the death certificate and does not usually require an autopsy.

Why thank you MissJames, I'm 10-4 and on the side.
 
  • #717
ITA, and I have a lot of sympathy for Cindy and George. A lot of kids lie,and steal, and are difficult. I don't see how they could possibly have known that murdering Caylee was next. I also don't believe they would have been given custody. I think they were going to try, but I do not believe they would have succeeded. On what grounds?? Nothing that could be proven at the time imo.

I totally agree. Just b/c your adult child is a brat and lies and steal doesn't mean you would think she will then move on to killing your child. Hindsight is 20/20 but I do not blame Cindy or George on Casey doing what she did.
 
  • #718
I've been having trouble figuring out the duct tape too. I am trying to only go by the testimony and evidence presented in court. So, today I learned Dr. (sorry, forget name) CAN state that the duct tape covered the mouth, but he CAN NOT say it had ever covered the nose. That information is actually MORE helpful to me with respect to trying to figure the duct tape out.

But now I need to hear evidence wrt whether or not this tape could have been placed pre-mortum or post-mortem. I'm just waiting for right now.

You are also allowed to use common sense as part of your reasoning. There was no longer a nose there for her to say conclusively that the tape covered it.

And there's the Huck ruling.........
 
  • #719
i dont think the lawyer should be able to hug the inmate during court

thats sick

i must be heartless
You are not heartless. Your instincts are correct. I agree. There's too much power in the position of being a professional lawyer and advocate. Many clients would feel too much was at stake to complain about a hug. Any imbalance of power in providing professional services should be without physical contact. Further, when a client initiates something like that, the lawyer should stop it and identify the risk of that imbalance. Lawyers should not encourage that kind of blurred emotional dependency and no client should be responsible for meeting any of the lawyer's emotional or physical needs.

Litigation is not a contact sport.
 
  • #720
Laci's mother, Sharon, wrote a book...

Yes she did, but Sharon was the victim's mother. Cindy is the perpetrator's mother. Sharon was forthcoming and tried to help. Cindy…not so much.

I may be taking your comment from a different prospective than you meant it to be. I'm on a crusade to understand the "Son-of-Sam" law and how it works in Florida.
 
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