25 March 2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection?

[laytonian]

I can tell you they're lovely people who are looking for answers and for their son. Doing the best they can under the circumstances. No, I don't believe they were nervous. And yes, I believe AN's parents could have been mistaken about the actual date he visited. It's not a cover-up, just a simple error.

There weren't a lot of people at that PC. It was very low-key, IMO.

AN told me it was "weird" that he was in St George on Dec 9th at 6:30pm. I'm not going to repeat a private email, but she had no quarrel with our calculations that placed Steven in Ruby Valley on Dec 10th -- and neither did Naegle.

 

[hollyblue]

AN told me it was "weird" that he was in St George on Dec 9th at 6:30pm. I'm not going to repeat a private email, but she had no quarrel with our calculations that placed Steven in Ruby Valley on Dec 10th -- and neither did Naegle.

I just think it's weird that the Ruby Valley 'visit' was first the 8th, then the 9th, and then the 10th. Apparently this witness to seeing him is *confused*. Why have no quarrel if she said it was the 9th--the second time around. You and Lato decided to change it to the 10th. I argued against it. Like I mentioned earlier, the only proof of his whereabouts will be within his purchases--and I think we are not being told everything about the calls and computer.

I discount anything anymore coming from Naegle, after the post of the sleep walking incident, and then saying otherwise in her reply when questioned in depth.....so I only go by what I hear or read publicly anymore. The misinformation on this case has been enormous to say the least and one of the reasons I curtailed my posting on his thread. Trying to pull facts or get any info was like extracting teeth. Many people were upset because of the lack of publicity.....but no one was doing or saying anything. We were thrown many bones to work on and a few weeks or months down the road, the info would be 'bad'. The case is a mess and has been from the beginning. We are no farther along to any real leads since the first two weeks. I think of us as hamsters running on a wheel and every rung in that wheel is a thought we have had to find him...till burn out. Bill O'Reilly would be proud of all the spinning! And we all know someone knows something about that trip to LV/Henderson and are just not saying anything. I truly believe that video had quite a few people jacked because they weren't expecting it.
And it was edited.

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I don't expect to hear anything further in the media re: his case.

Naegle made the comment one time that "they" were in charge....I think they must be because LE has said very, very, little.

 

[laytonian]

I just think it's weird that the Ruby Valley 'visit' was first the 8th, then the 9th, and then the 10th.

It seemed weird to me, until I learned how the dates were developed.

The Ruby Valley visit was reported as Dec 8th, by AN.
The Dec 8th TH sighting in St George conflicted with it.
AN's and SK's mothers discussed it and decided it must have been on Dec 9th.

I don't think that's possible, when you have at least five other people (and a ward clerk) confirming Steven was at a temple ceremony that *began* 4.5 hours later that same day, 500 miles away.

You obviously disagree. That's fine.

Do you have your proposal ready, connecting these cases? I'll be happy to put a link on the timeline webpage, to every alternative scenario. Or include a basic scenario on the page where we've already collected many.

 

[Lato]

I just think it's weird that the Ruby Valley 'visit' was first the 8th, then the 9th, and then the 10th. Apparently this witness to seeing him is *confused*. Why have no quarrel if she said it was the 9th--the second time around. You and Lato decided to change it to the 10th. I argued against it. Like I mentioned earlier, the only proof of his whereabouts will be within his purchases--and I think we are not being told everything about the calls and computer.

I discount anything anymore coming from Naegle, after the post of the sleep walking incident, and then saying otherwise in her reply when questioned in depth.....so I only go by what I hear or read publicly anymore. The misinformation on this case has been enormous to say the least and one of the reasons I curtailed my posting on his thread. Trying to pull facts or get any info was like extracting teeth. Many people were upset because of the lack of publicity.....but no one was doing or saying anything. We were thrown many bones to work on and a few weeks or months down the road, the info would be 'bad'. The case is a mess and has been from the beginning. We are no farther along to any real leads since the first two weeks. I think of us as hamsters running on a wheel and every rung in that wheel is a thought we have had to find him...till burn out. Bill O'Reilly would be proud of all the spinning! And we all know someone knows something about that trip to LV/Henderson and are just not saying anything. I truly believe that video had quite a few people jacked because they weren't expecting it.
And it was edited.

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I don't expect to hear anything further in the media re: his case.

Naegle made the comment one time that "they" were in charge....I think they must be because LE has said very, very, little.

BBM
Nothing upsets me more than seeing something like this. And as I looked back at the SK thread, you had further remarks that should have been addressed at the time.

This is what I said on 2-24-10 at 1:21 pm:

02-24-2010, 01:21 PM
Lato
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 79

When you open up a big AAA Southwestern States map and zero in on Utah and Nevada, the towns that are highlighted - the ones that Steven visited - are somewhere between a circle and oblong shape.

1. St. George - Nephi - Springville - Wendover - Ruby Valley mostly along Interstate routes is about 8 hours

2. Ruby Valley to St. George - mostly along Hwy. 93 - is about 6 hours, 30 minutes - or

3. Ruby Valley to St. George back along the same Interstate route is about 8 hours driving time

All of the gas station locations are along #1 and #3.

I think SK was at Temple on Wednesday, 12/09/09 in time for 6:30 p.m. service. The documentation of sightings is very good.

I think the whole "visiting the ranch" episode occurred on another day and the gas station stops may have all been on that same "other" day.

How about the 8th or the 10th? He could have taken the Interstate route or the Hwy 93 route to Ruby Valley, visited and had lunch and, on the way back, use the Interstate route and stopped for gas and his taco meal and been back in St. George late that night. The timeline shows no other events occurring on those days other than the possible $100 payment from boss.

hollyblue, this was a question I was asking Laytonian based on what she knew of the receipts and her knowledge of Utah and it's highways. If the RV visit occurred in that week, it seemed that only two days were available.

I will certainly pay more attention to your thoughts in the future and not wait until now to respond.

 

[laytonian]

This is what I said on 2-24-10 at 1:21 pm:

Thanks for reminding us that your post (with its great logic) was made less than two days before the family's press conference.

How about the 8th or the 10th? He could have taken the Interstate route or the Hwy 93 route to Ruby Valley, visited and had lunch and, on the way back, use the Interstate route and stopped for gas and his taco meal and been back in St. George late that night. The timeline shows no other events occurring on those days other than the possible $100 payment from boss.

You're right. Dec 8th or 10th.
Based on everything we know: I ruled out Dec 8th for the same reason that the two moms ruled it out: SK saw his boss that day. Since he was in Ruby Valley, NV at 11:00am PST, his boss would have had to have seem him between 00:01am and 02:15am MST that day.

Why? Because 2:15am MST is the latest Steven could have left St George to arrive in Ruby Valley at 11am PST.

....and this is why nit-picking details are important.

 

[dovebar]

According to the boss. Verified any other way? I'm sure the police are checking into that.

 

[hollyblue]

It seemed weird to me, until I learned how the dates were developed.

The Ruby Valley visit was reported as Dec 8th, by AN.
The Dec 8th TH sighting in St George conflicted with it.
AN's and SK's mothers discussed it and decided it must have been on Dec 9th.

I don't think that's possible, when you have at least five other people (and a ward clerk) confirming Steven was at a temple ceremony that *began* 4.5 hours later that same day, 500 miles away.

You obviously disagree. That's fine.

Do you have your proposal ready, connecting these cases? I'll be happy to put a link on the timeline webpage, to every alternative scenario. Or include a basic scenario on the page where we've already collected many.

Lay, I'm keeping that timeline possibilty in *storage*---but will wait until we have conclusive evidence.

I'll leave the decision to put the theory on the timeline up to you. I didn't realize that all the theories presented there had a full blown scenario to back them up...? If people would do this with the ones proposed we would have more to bite on.
We know it's not a very favorable theory....because the odds are so 'great' of this not happening. Yet, what are the odds that two people, both lived in WVC at one time and SK being there in that week, both LDS, male and female, within 2 two years of age actually disappearing within the same week? Much lower I'm sure.....right.

Maybe the Tribulation is beginning......that could explain how the car got to SG without a driver also.

OT--W E Deming has prominent roots in Quality....through the process of SPC--Statistical Process Control. Having an interest in Asian cultures, and by studying a concept of his theory--I was aware this isn't "out of box" thinking.
Although, it does appear Toyota jumped ship with it somewhere along the line. Deming's theory still holds.....as it will cost Toyota abundantly for poor quality products.

http://deming.org/index.cfm?content=61

 

[hollyblue]

Thanks for reminding us that your post (with its great logic) was made less than two days before the family's press conference.



You're right. Dec 8th or 10th.
Based on everything we know: I ruled out Dec 8th for the same reason that the two moms ruled it out: SK saw his boss that day. Since he was in Ruby Valley, NV at 11:00am PST, his boss would have had to have seem him between 00:01am and 02:15am MST that day.

Why? Because 2:15am MST is the latest Steven could have left St George to arrive in Ruby Valley at 11am PST.

....and this is why nit-picking details are important.

I agree, that's why the debit charges are critical. But don't forget to step back and look at the big picture too.
Why was he in that area to begin with? Please don't say religious or philosophical jaunt....1200 miles? Broke. Something very 'important' to him in my book.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm probably the cause of your irritation, HollyBlue, because of suggesting that this discussion might best be moved from the thread where the topic first came up. I apologize for not taking your feelings into account on that while actually trying to help your idea stand on its own.

My intention was to move the topic from being thought of with suspicion to being one that deserves its own consideration and needs to be fully fleshed out. I hope you'll continue to comment on this when you feel comfortable doing so and overlook the damage.

Grayjay, I think your intentions were honorable. Although no apology is necessary, the intent is accepted with much sincerity and appreciated.
I'm just a bit perplex at the amount of unbending objection to this theory. That alone-to me seems telling. JMO

Maybe I should apologize for my way of 'sleuthing'.....but it works!

 

[hollyblue]

This is an article regarding the connection. Thought is should be posted here:

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...-link-consider-Josh-Powells-use-of-rental-car

 

[hollyblue]

According to the boss. Verified any other way? I'm sure the police are checking into that.

IIRC ---he was paid CASH of $100. No trail.

 

[grayjay]

This is an article regarding the connection. Thought is should be posted here:

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...-link-consider-Josh-Powells-use-of-rental-car

Not much to go on in the article. The rental car distance wouldn't get him down to Henderson, which is 430 miles, and SK is on foot? If SK takes public transportation into downtown LV, it's still too far. What am I missing here? We don't even know if Susan had on a winter jacket, right?

 

[laytonian]

Not much to go on in the article. The rental car distance wouldn't get him down to Henderson, which is 430 miles, and SK is on foot? If SK takes public transportation into downtown LV, it's still too far. What am I missing here? We don't even know if Susan had on a winter jacket, right?

The only way SK could have gone into Vegas, was if he'd called a cab. The closest bus stop to where the car was found, is about five miles.

Plus, why not just leave the car in Vegas, anonymously, in a hotel or casino parking lot.

I think the car was left where it was, in a neighborhood, because whoever parked it, thought there would be no security cameras. Surprise.

(I won't mention the hyperbole in that article; those of us who've been following this case, have heard from his friends about his attitude in St George and with life in general.)

 

[grayjay]

There's so much in SK's story pointing to a caring and sensitive person. The biggest thing standing out for me in common between him and Susan is that neither one would be called self absorbed or self centered. Neither one would hurt family and friends by choice, nor would they leave them hanging and worrying while they sought comfort elsewhere.

 

[Fairy1]

There's so much in SK's story pointing to a caring and sensitive person. The biggest thing standing out for me in common between him and Susan is that neither one would be called self absorbed or self centered. Neither one would hurt family and friends by choice, nor would they leave them hanging and worrying while they sought comfort elsewhere.

I don't believe for one second that Susan would have left her sweet little boys with a man she knew was a . And I don't believe Steven would have supported such a thing.

 

[hollyblue]

I don't believe for one second that Susan would have left her sweet little boys with a man she knew was a . And I don't believe Steven would have supported such a thing.

There's always the possibility she didn't have the choice too. Or if she made a choice...the boys are still alive. Just sayin...

 

[laytonian]

There's so much in SK's story pointing to a caring and sensitive person. The biggest thing standing out for me in common between him and Susan is that neither one would be called self absorbed or self centered. Neither one would hurt family and friends by choice, nor would they leave them hanging and worrying while they sought comfort elsewhere.

I think Steven posibly could take off, if he was hurt and/or angry enough. Kind of an "I'll show YOU!" sort of thing. He's been variously described as "young for his age", or perhaps with ADHD/social disorder. Evidently not professionally diagnosed, but something his friends have tried to describe and that one states he took some sort of medication for. (Unknown whether it was prescribed or OTC.)
His last conversation with his Dad (that we know of), ended in Steven hanging up. His friend told us that he was closest to his Mom. Others have told us that he was increasingly unhappy (yet, his Mom's quoted as saying things were "rosy" ... so I think they were protective of each other).

I'm torn 50-50 between Steven being a crime victim (based on a conflict over money or a personal issue), and him taking his own life. He had turned 30 just a few weeks before he disappeared, his life was spiralling downward, he was in debt and his plan to be independent wasn't working out so well.

 

[RayO]

I haven't read all the threads about SK, but from the timeline and the bit I have read he reminds me of someone I knew when I lived in Utah. He was a bit over the top spiritual, and he was naive and a bit gullible in his decision making. He would do things based on dreams or visions from prayers. If he prayed about something in the temple and he got some sort of answer, or good feeling from praying about it he would go out right away and do it. No discussion with others or the usual fact-finding research most others would do.

Since SK's trip to NV was right after the temple visit, I wonder if he thought he got a message that those people on the ranch in NV could help him in his job search. Didn't seem to pan out, though. So he returns to SG and on some other whim goes to Vegas. In Vegas either he meets up with someone who talks him into meeting him in that retirement community (with nefarious intentions) or he decides to go out walking in the desert from there like Christ wandered the desert.

Anyway, all speculation on my part and I'm thinking it would be quite unlikely that the events are connected.

 

[grayjay]

I haven't read all the threads about SK, but from the timeline and the bit I have read he reminds me of someone I knew when I lived in Utah. He was a bit over the top spiritual, and he was naive and a bit gullible in his decision making. He would do things based on dreams or visions from prayers. If he prayed about something in the temple and he got some sort of answer, or good feeling from praying about it he would go out right away and do it. No discussion with others or the usual fact-finding research most others would do.

Since SK's trip to NV was right after the temple visit, I wonder if he thought he got a message that those people on the ranch in NV could help him in his job search. Didn't seem to pan out, though. So he returns to SG and on some other whim goes to Vegas. In Vegas either he meets up with someone who talks him into meeting him in that retirement community (with nefarious intentions) or he decides to go out walking in the desert from there like Christ wandered the desert.

Anyway, all speculation on my part and I'm thinking it would be quite unlikely that the events are connected.

I couldn't agree more. I'd look for some sicko surgeon in the neighborhood myself. There was one over here that was never brought to justice for a murder, but after his death everyone put it together. Very upstanding in the community and sick to the core.

 

[hollyblue]

There's so much in SK's story pointing to a caring and sensitive person. The biggest thing standing out for me in common between him and Susan is that neither one would be called self absorbed or self centered. Neither one would hurt family and friends by choice, nor would they leave them hanging and worrying while they sought comfort elsewhere.

The only thing I could find in common with activities between Josh and Steven...they were both building/marketing websites.