4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[jepop]

I'd replying on your (@Boxer) post due to the bold, but this is a general question/comment for everyone

I know Kaylee's move and weekend visit has been discussed. Has there been a discussion about the number of cars in the drive? The only photo I saw, on my admittedly brief search is after the cars were towed. There are 5 spots on the snowy lot were cars had been. So, there were at least five, maybe six cars parked there the night of the murders. IMO, there should have been an expectation that he could encounter more than the intended victim(s).

I suppose the weapon of choice did not preclude additional victims...
Just another rabbit hole I've hopped into.

I'm not sure I believe the alleged killer intended to kill only one victim. However, I believe one premise alleged for this theory is that the killer believed/was confident that he could enter the house, sneak up stairs without awakening or disturbing others sleeping in different rooms, kill his 'target' :-( and leave unnoticed. There is a second premise attached to this theory IMO; that the killer knew his target and her room and had watched her long enough to feel confident that under 'usual circumstances' (as surmised by the killer) she would be alone in her bed at that hour. So the killer saw all the cars and did not see it as a problem. MOO

EBM clarity

ETA: Needless to say, according to this theory murderer miscalculated and/or met with the unexpected and was prepared and willing to follow through such was his need to end his 'target's' life, plus to serve his self preservation. But who knows,maybe rage at finding a second unexpected person fueled the additional and equally horrendous killings that followed. Speculation. MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Thank you. If your mother says she loves you, check it out. an old journalist cliche

With this strict gag order, I understand why we are seeing so many anonymous sources. There are many reasons someone would want to remain unknown in this case (restrictions, threats, media). The Dateline sister story got me thinking that the source is somehow in law enforcement and maybe the sister is the protected informant. That would explain to me those motions praying to keep her confidential and why she will not testify but perhaps helped LE because of some moral code, beliefs, or love for a brother in need of help. IIR One sister wrote a poem after a mass shooting. She seemed deeply moved by those deaths. JMO

Good investigative journalists have been using anonymous sources for decades.
Anybody else remember Deep Throat, anonymous source? Mark Felt, associate director of the FBI during Watergate, revealed he was the one who provided crucial information to the Washington Post. The secret was kept for over 30 years. NPR story on Mark Felt here.

NBC has reporting standards which actually got a reporter suspended pending internal investigation less than six months ago for using an unreliable source. NBC suspends reporter here.

The AP details anonymous sources here and what their reporters must go through before using one. It's not easy.

The difference is that in those other examples, the anonymous source tips off the reporters who then do their own investigating. Woodward and Bernstein didn't go on national TV and say "we have an anonymous source who tells us..." Rather, they were tipped off by DT, investigated, and brought receipts.

Regardless, no one said that NBC is lying that I've seen. No one's even implied it. No one said that they even did anything wrong. What's been said is no different than what is said in response to ALL the articles publishing anonymous source information, including People Magazine, News Nation, and countless others. I'm not sure why this is causing a stir all of a sudden. We all respond differently to anonymous sources. IMO, I need more than an anonymous source because the credibility of that source is hidden unless there's a name attached. I'm much more likely to believe a LE source than a neighbor down the street.

MOO.

 

[Chloegirl]

The national show made this claim on a Friday night. IMO, anything the family says will likely go through their lawyer and that isn't going to be accomplished on a dime. Also, it gets more sticky. Does the family really want a public bickerfest with the press prior to BK's arraignment? What if she said something similar? She goes on the record and says "I didn't say that" will also involve her saying what she did say, which she may not want nationally broadcast. Not everyone who has something said about them is going to correct the record right away. Her feelings about her brother, whatever they are, are a very small part of the bigger picture. MOO.

The only public statement the family has made is offering condolences to the victims and saying they stand behind BK, as far as I know. If you've heard them proclaim his innocence, can you provide a link or direct me to where please?

So, on that note. Do you feel they will make an appearance for the Monday court date?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

So, on that note. Do you feel they will make an appearance for the Monday court date?

I have no idea what they'll do. I think his parents will be there. Whether or not one or both sisters will be there no one knows.

 

[jepop]

I read that as well (and thought, is this in addition to the ones found in his glove box??)

I cannot myself read the handwriting in that warrant well enough to know how many they said they found. But I think sources other than Dateline are reporting the 2 other ID's found - in PA, right? I keep thinking we're going to hear more and more from PA (and WA) sources after Monday. He's now officially indicted and under a lot of public scrutiny.

Smoking gun evidence found in Bryan Kohberger's home—report

Kohberger, 28, is charged with breaking into a home in Moscow and fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

I can't tell if there's a third find of ID's (probably not). And it's possible that there's only one finding. IOW, it's possible that "ID's in the glove box" have turned into "ID's in a glove." At any rate, it's clear that ID's that don't belong to BK were found on the PA search warrant.

The link above supports your view. News Nation goes a step further - and sometimes they are right. News Nation says that an ID connected to 1122 was found (in that link above). Here's the quote:



Vague, yes. But again, it's a big step out on the plank for News Nation if that's totally false. The part about the "home where the slayings took place" is the part that is new.

IMO.

I do remember pretty clearly discussing this, when NN came out with this bizzo about IDs found in the glove box of the elantra during the search of the elantra. At the time I re-checked the elantra return of inventory - is screen shotted about recent threads and quite readable in comparison with the ROI of the PA residence. But it can be found below amongst PA Court Docs

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

I re-checked the elantra ROI just to confirm my feeling of being gaslighted by NN and there is definately nothing about IDs being found in a glove box of the elantra. Just some car rego papers, which are more than likely BK's own. MOO

I don't know if NN ever bothered to correct their what I am almost 100% certain is misreporting or just a very basic but nonetheless crucial error. They mixed up the elantra inventory with PA residence inventory, and that error clearly grew some legs of its own that live on still. MOO

The item in question AFAIK, in accordance with the Horse's Mouth, is "IDS in glove inside box". That item was found in search of PA residence. There were never any IDs found inside the glove box of the elantra. MOO

 

[otto]

If he was a fan of BTK, why aren't the murders similar to the BTK motive and murders? Was he planning to murder Madison while she slept alone in a house full of people? But Kaylee was accidentally there too, sleeping in the same or next room? That threw him off his game so he frantically murdered both of them, and he forgot his knife sheath, then Xana and her boyfriend were murdered because they were awake and ordering food at the time of the murders?

Did he return to the scene of the crime (without turning off his cell phone) at 9 AM later that morning because he was worried about his missing knife sheath?

He made so many mistakes - perhaps attributed to having committed an imperfect murder?

 

[Ksfarmer8]

NO. We do not have any information that shows BK bought a knife, all we have are Search Warrants looking to see if BK did purchase one. (We know knives from his parents' house were seized)

If I'm wrong then someone please provide links. In fact a nice clear list would be helpful.

Ditto --- the 1 or 2 cards BK supposedly hid that supposedly link him to other women. What kind of cards? Credit or Debit? Store Rewards cards? Medical Insurance cards? Student IDs?

(We know several cards were found but these are likely BK's own cards)

Links - clear list - anyone? Thanks.

Nightline (Dateline) on the TV special Friday evening (May 19) said BK purchased the knife on Amazon.com about a month before leaving PA. The program made the statement that BK along with the knife traveled 2500 miles to WA. What exact info Nightline (Dateline) has to make that statement I have no idea but that statement was made on the program. The knife is discussed about 30 minutes into the 2 hr program.
Should be Dateline not Nightline. Corrected by Author.

 

[jepop]

NO. We do not have any information that shows BK bought a knife, all we have are Search Warrants looking to see if BK did purchase one. (We know knives from his parents' house were seized)

If I'm wrong then someone please provide links. In fact a nice clear list would be helpful.

Ditto --- the 1 or 2 cards BK supposedly hid that supposedly link him to other women. What kind of cards? Credit or Debit? Store Rewards cards? Medical Insurance cards? Student IDs?

(We know several cards were found but these are likely BK's own cards)

Links - clear list - anyone? Thanks.

RBBM re the IDs: There is no link to definative material beyond PA Court Docs for PA search warrants at

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

where ROIs can be found for PA residence, elantra and BK's person. MOO

The item appears to be "IDs in glove inside box" from PA residence search warrant ROI. Either that or "10 cards inside glove inside box" but given the recent Dateline report, flawed and ambiguous as it may be, I've now cemented my opinion that the item's semi-indecipherable characters read "IDs" and not the number "10". MOO

 

[jepop]

Nightline on the TV special Friday evening (May 19) said BK purchased the knife on Amazon.com about a month before leaving PA. The program made the statement that BK along with the knife traveled 2500 miles to WA. What exact info Nightline has to make that statement I have no idea but that statement was made on the program. The knife is discussed about 30 minutes into the 2 hr program.

Do you mean Dateline?

 

[katydid23]

The national show made this claim on a Friday night. IMO, anything the family says will likely go through their lawyer and that isn't going to be accomplished on a dime. Also, it gets more sticky. Does the family really want a public bickerfest with the press prior to BK's arraignment? What if she said something similar? She goes on the record and says "I didn't say that" will also involve her saying what she did say, which she may not want nationally broadcast. Not everyone who has something said about them is going to correct the record right away. Her feelings about her brother, whatever they are, are a very small part of the bigger picture. MOO.

If they said something similar then it is still pretty damning, no?

The only public statement the family has made is offering condolences to the victims and saying they stand behind BK, as far as I know. If you've heard them proclaim his innocence, can you provide a link or direct me to where please?

Isn't saying they 'stand behind him ' essentially the same as calling him innocent? Are they going to publicly 'stand behind him' if they think he brutally stabbed 4 college kids to death?

 

[iamshadow21]

But if Xana had stepped out of her room, then saw him, she'd most likely run right back into her room and he'd follow.

In complete silence? No yelling or screaming, no heavy footfalls of X and the perpetrator to be overheard by D? These weren't carpeted floors, they were lino, and IIRC, prior tenants said that you could hear people moving around across the floors and up and down the stairs when they were walking normally, let alone running for their life. No loud door slamming behind her?

I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't see why they couldn't have been ambushed in their room, half asleep, scrolling through Tik Tok, eating their delivered late night snack. Yeah, I think one of them maybe stuck their head out of their room at one point, like D did - we have the overheard bit of speech from someone who was probably X. But I don't see where the evidence for X and E being chased through the house by a perp with the knife is coming from, what it's based on. I don't see why it's not as simple as maybe he killed X and E for the same reason he killed the other girls - because he wanted to kill people - rather than for expediency or coverup. And I also see nothing strange in the two other girls surviving. Bundy left plenty alive at Chi Omega, too, including a girl who saw him leave, like D saw this perpetrator leave.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Stop the incessant debating and arguing over sources, journalism or journalistic integrity. WS is not for debate; it is for discussion of facts about a case, as best we can ascertain them via MSM, LE and other approved sources.

Members have a choice of believing an unnamed source or not, but nobody is here to hammer their opinion into someone else's head. State your opinion and move on .. scroll & roll.

Any more of this back and forth bickering and Time Outs will be issued.

Other points to keep in mind:

- It is not necessary to address every single post
- If you can't handle what another member has to contribute, ignore the post or use the Ignore feature
- Don't make your post all about you. People don't come here to read about you.
- If you wish to leave the discussion, just leave without announcing it on the thread

 

[Cindizzi]

So, on that note. Do you feel they will make an appearance for the Monday court date?

The Judge will allow them to attend virtually if they can’t be there or choose not to attend in person.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051923%20REDACTED%20Order%20Regarding%20Notice%20of%20Hearing%20Zoom%20Information.pdf

 

[I'm Nobody]

So, on that note. Do you feel they will make an appearance for the Monday court date?

Judge Judge's ZOOM INFO hinted at potential travel restrictions for family's. I thought of BK's family, but who knows for sure. Anyway a kind gesture by the new judge.

"The court is mindful that limited courtroom capacity and potential travel restrictions may interfere with the victims" and the defendant’s family’s ability to observe the court proceedings in this case. Therefore, in the event they are unable or prefer not to attend the proceeding in-person, the court finds it necessary to make the court proceedings available via Zoom for the victims’ and the defendant’s immediate family members under the following restrictions."

BBM. JMO

Edit Oops. @Cindizzi beat me to it. same thoughts.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051923%20REDACTED%20Order%20Regarding%20Notice%20of%20Hearing%20Zoom%20Information.pdf

 

[Ksfarmer8]

Do you mean Dateline?

Thanks for the correction. Yes it was Dateline. Trying to do too many multitasks!!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If they said something similar then it is still pretty damning, no?

Depends on what she said and the context.

Isn't saying they 'stand behind him ' essentially the same as calling him innocent? Are they going to publicly 'stand behind him' if they think he brutally stabbed 4 college kids to death?

No, it isn't the same, IMO. There are many people who stand behind their family members who have committed horrendous crimes. They don't defend them or make excuses for the crimes they committed, but they continue to love them. IMO, parents, especially, do this. If my kids were accused of a crime like this, I certainly wouldn't turn my back on them, especially not before trial. It's possible for a parent to believe their child belongs in prison if they're guilty of this type of crime, but still continue to love them. MOO.

 

[jepop]

Thanks for the correction. Yes it was Dateline. Trying to do too many multitasks!!

Completely understandable, just thought, let's get a quick clarification,to avoid potentially( inadvertently ofcourse) teeing off a set of posts about how nightline might be reporting on Dateline's story etc! MOO

 

[jepop]

Judge Judge's ZOOM INFO hinted at potential travel restrictions for family's. I thought of BK's family, but who knows for sure. Anyway a kind gesture by the new judge.

"The court is mindful that limited courtroom capacity and potential travel restrictions may interfere with the victims" and the defendant’s family’s ability to observe the court proceedings in this case. Therefore, in the event they are unable or prefer not to attend the proceeding in-person, the court finds it necessary to make the court proceedings available via Zoom for the victims’ and the defendant’s immediate family members under the following restrictions."

BBM. JMO

Edit Opps. @Cindizzi beat me to it. same thoughts.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051923%20REDACTED%20Order%20Regarding%20Notice%20of%20Hearing%20Zoom%20Information.pdf

Nice to see Judge John Judge starting off on this compassionate note.MOO

 

[otto]

No, it isn't the same, IMO. There are many people who stand behind their family members who have committed horrendous crimes. They don't defend them or make excuses for the crimes they committed, but they continue to love them. IMO, parents, especially, do this. If my kids were accused of a crime like this, I certainly wouldn't turn my back on them, especially not before trial. It's possible for a parent to believe their child belongs in prison if they're guilty of this type of crime, but still continue to love them. MOO.

Thing is, with this type of crime, family is usually the first to know.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I can totally believe he did it. Just had never heard this story before Dateline last night.

I can imagine the woman looking back on that and being freaked out to think she might have dodged a bullet there.

jmo

Or a knife