4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

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  • #241
AFAIK, the first mention of an abandoned sheath was in late November, on FB, from where the story grew legs, IMO. And it turned out to be true, which is why we're still talking about it.

I believe it was 14 days after the murders. It was the Pappa Rodger account. I may actually go back to the early days of this thread when I get a chance to see when we first started mentioning it.

I didn't hear Dateline the same way you did (I thought the segments were disjointed; but it is true that they implied he was stalking women - and with more than one strand to that part of it; it seems obvious to me that if BK is to be tied to this crime, there ought to be evidence of him purchasing the weapon, which is unrelated in my mind to the ID collecting, the coverage of which confused me - does Dateline have anything more than the PCA? Because if so, that wasn't clear at all).

IMO.
Good question. The type of IDs was not released to the public. If Dateline does information on what they are or where they're from, it came from someone who isn't supposed to be blabbing information.

I know people who are not authorized to do so feed info to the media all the time. However, if there are real sieves out there for this case, none has leaked anything of much evidentiary value. Makes me wonder if the sources are leaking true info. or if they are messing with the media.
 
  • #242
Does the gag order encompass LE in PA?
 
  • #243
Yes, but Dateline was exploring two theories - first: that BK could have been anywhere while he was studying remotely during the academic year at DeSales University; and second: that a serial killer would likely progress to that stage, not just go out and commmit a mass murder. So they were looking at the kinds of crimes a person would commit at various stages, peeping Tom, stalking, voyeurism, etc. and that's why they included some LE reports in the area of the King Road home that happened five months before the murders.
I just don’t think this has any “legs” to stand on—too many differences—if the clothes were slashed or cut up, I might give it more weight. BK didn’t move to Pullman until June or July of 2022. I may be wrong but I think this is a pretty far reach. IM0
 
  • #244
That's what makes this account so interesting. Most of the other stories about BK's interactions with women are related to some negative behavior on his part (aggressive, dismissive, etc.). That narrative does not align with a female colleague not only confiding the break-in to him, asking for his advice and allowing him into her home to install a security system. IMO, if he was as awful to women in general as has been reported, this colleague (fellow student?) would have been aware of it and understandably wary of him.

Is this the same woman that he studied with or gave a ride to (I can't recall the exact nature of their connection) or a different one? If it is another woman, that's at least two women who were around him regularly who were not creeped out, suspicious, etc.

edit: wording

It is my understanding that he was taking classes (graduate level, first year) and that he was a TA. So obviously, he was around women every day. The person who asked his help with the camera issue is likely one of the women in his program. W

A quick search of the WSU criminology program shows that there are 58 students on average, spread across 3 years of the doctoral program. So let's say there were 20 in his program. I assume about half (or more) were women.

We don't know if it's the same woman to whom he gave a ride. There has been mention of an Asian woman (by someone from the Steptoe apt building where he lived) being over one time.


I disagree that if he was awful to some women (or even most women) that the colleague would know about it. I know of many, many examples of inappropriate behavior directed by colleagues at others, when most people did not ever think the inappropriate person would do such a thing. It's the very stuff of which Title IX and other complaints are filled. Indeed, the guy who was kicked out of my own program (made national news, at the time) was perfectly nice to me, but it turned out he was actively harassing two other women in my program. The women he was harassing were not shocked, however.

That's just one example. I have many more, in which people were shocked when the truth came out.

Some women have a high threshold for untoward behavior, some don't.

If it is true that LE thinks he may have been the person who moved her stuff around (a common think that a creeper/peeper will escalate into doing), then surely she's creeped out now (when we discovered who was breaking into our house a few years ago, I assure you I was shocked at who it was, we had been friendly for 2-3 years at the time). I also believe that while maybe Kohberger's sister(s) were pondering whether he was involved in the murders, that it likely came as a shock to his parents.

One cannot use statistics to know whether someone like Kohberger has a problem with women. We know one woman was, and that the school investigated but apparently did not find his behavior problematic (the situation with the following one woman to her car). The woman who stormed out of the seminar because of things he was saying may or may not be that same woman. We just don't know. Many, many bright women have missed clues and cues of impending trouble with assailants (male and female).

IMO.
 
  • #245
  • #246
.
AFAIK, the first mention of an abandoned sheath was in late November, on FB, from where the story grew legs, IMO. And it turned out to be true, which is why we're still talking about it.

I believe it was 14 days after the murders. It was the Pappa Rodger account. I may actually go back to the early days of this thread when I get a chance to see when we first started mentioning it.

I didn't hear Dateline the same way you did (I thought the segments were disjointed; but it is true that they implied he was stalking women - and with more than one strand to that part of it; it seems obvious to me that if BK is to be tied to this crime, there ought to be evidence of him purchasing the weapon, which is unrelated in my mind to the ID collecting, the coverage of which confused me - does Dateline have anything more than the PCA? Because if so, that wasn't clear at all).

IMO.

Does anyone remember the times when in another (Delphi) case people were serious about someone under the initials LK who was supposed to be “connected” and have inside info? I wanted to bet the person was an unstable outsider who had no real knowledge of the case.

I have the same feeling about Pappa Rodger now. It can be a budding criminal, or a person looking for a sliver of notoriety. Unless BK is an innocent bystander, Pappa is very unlikely to be BK. If BK is a planning murderer, it makes no sense for him to be in everyone’s view. How did his behavior change after murders? He stopped harsh grading. Either was preoccupied with something else, or got access to some substances improving his mood, or simply didn’t want to draw students’ attention to himself by making them feel unhappy? Then he put about 2500 miles between himself and the scene of a crime. A lot. He wants to stay undetected.
 
  • #247
  • #248
Does the gag order encompass LE in PA?

No, IMO. orders from the Superior Court from one state cannot reach across state lines. PA and WA are not under the gag order and the gag order is quite specific as to whom it covers.

So yeah, there are people in WA and PA who are talking (and clearly, Dateline was able to get some people to talk - they wouldn't say they'd talked to BK's sister if they had not done so, IMO).
 
  • #249
Yes, but Dateline was exploring two theories - first: that BK could have been anywhere while he was studying remotely during the academic year at DeSales University; and second: that a serial killer would likely progress to that stage, not just go out and commmit a mass murder. So they were looking at the kinds of crimes a person would commit at various stages, peeping Tom, stalking, voyeurism, etc. and that's why they included some LE reports in the area of the King Road home that happened five months before the murders.
MOO BK was a heroin addict for a couple of years. B&E very common to support that habit. So could be already be experienced in B&E hot prowling.
 
  • #250
That's what makes this account so interesting. Most of the other stories about BK's interactions with women are related to some negative behavior on his part (aggressive, dismissive, etc.). That narrative does not align with a female colleague not only confiding the break-in to him, asking for his advice and allowing him into her home to install a security system. IMO, if he was as awful to women in general as has been reported, this colleague (fellow student?) would have been aware of it and understandably wary of him.

Is this the same woman that he studied with or gave a ride to (I can't recall the exact nature of their connection) or a different one? If it is another woman, that's at least two women who were around him regularly who were not creeped out, suspicious, etc.

edit: wording
The Dateline producer believes the woman BK installed the security system for may have been one of BK's WSU office mates. Sounds reasonable to me. If so, the woman may have trusted BK more than meeting him under different circumstances.

JMO

"We believe this woman might have been one of the Ph.D students whom Bryan Kohberger shared an office with at WSU. We could never confirm this"


 
  • #251
.


Does anyone remember the times when in another (Delphi) case people were serious about someone under the initials LK who was supposed to be “connected” and have inside info? I wanted to bet the person was an unstable outsider who had no real knowledge of the case.

I have the same feeling about Pappa Rodger now. It can be a budding criminal, or a person looking for a sliver of notoriety. Unless BK is an innocent bystander, Pappa is very unlikely to be BK. If BK is a planning murderer, it makes no sense for him to be in everyone’s view. How did his behavior change after murders? He stopped harsh grading. Either was preoccupied with something else, or got access to some substances improving his mood, or simply didn’t want to draw students’ attention to himself by making them feel unhappy? Then he put about 2500 miles between himself and the scene of a crime. A lot. He wants to stay undetected.

It makes sense if he wants notoriety, which I believe he does. If it's not BK, then it's a prankster. Most people on the internet think they are well hidden and anonymous. Many criminals love talking to others about what they've done. Many criminals are also unstable.

He stopped the harsh grading because of Prof. S's intervention and the student complaints, as the simplest answer. He was planning to go home for winter break, according to what MSM has reported, ever since he came to Pullman. Family said that his father had planned to fly out since he dropped him off in August.

Disturbed individuals often want and don't want something, like fame. They are divided in their motivations, as many people are, but usually in a more pronounced and often incoherent way. The person who murdered these four beautiful young people is not normal. They are disturbed.


IMO.
 
  • #252
I didn't like the insinuation about the knife purchase.

I was gifted my great-grandfather's Ka-Bar pocket knife (it was very well worn and, sadly, I can't locate it).

When I was around 10, my grandfather gave me the same pocket knife he carried around - an Old Timer. I'm proud of that and have purchased many different models of Old Timer knives--including one similar to the one alleged to have been used in this crime.

When I purchase those knives, from Amazon, I'm not planning a murder. I'm just proud of the knife brand my grandpa first gave me.

Your knife isn't traced to the batch from which that sheath came. FBI does very careful analysis of such things as the thread/string used to sew the sheath. Actually, forensic anthropologists have the techniques to help with that as well. At any rate, Ka-Bar knows where different sheaths are manufactured and what knives come with them, with various kinds of leather (which itself has DNA leading directly to the cattle/place of origin).

No one is implying that Amazon purchasers are all criminals (and the people selling Ka-Bar on Amazon each have different storefronts, and presumably all are authorized by the wholesaler - or are wholesalers; there are a couple of wholesalers on Amazon).

It would be very weird if the FBI hadn't tried to source the knife, wouldn't it? Doesn't matter where it came from, as long as they can connect BK to that purchase (and, btw, the FBI is not under any gag order, and while they are usually tight-lipped, they do have conversations with researchers and journalists from time to time, IME).

Obviously, the vast majority of us purchasing knives online are not mass murderers.

IMO.
 
  • #253
I, also, found that an interesting piece of information - that one of his sister's suspected BK of the Idaho murders when he went back to PA for Christmas break. And at one point she (and maybe other family members) actually searched or looked into his car. Where was BK when they did that, I wonder? He rarely slept, so seems like something pretty gutsy to do.

And I wonder where Dateline got this information?
This, to me, is explosive. Why would his sister think that and how did dateline find out about that?
 
  • #254
So if this is true (ie source is solid, MOO), then it will put to rest various other decipherings for this item in the PA search warrant return for parent's residence in favour of "ID cards in glove inside box" (as opposed to "10 cards" or "10 curls"). Also prior discussion here re is it an actual "glove" (for a hand), a card holder - but referred to by the writer as a glove, or a vehicle glove box detached from a vehicle and found inside the residence (!). MOO
What women I wonder?
 
  • #255
I'd replying on your (@Boxer) post due to the bold, but this is a general question/comment for everyone

I know Kaylee's move and weekend visit has been discussed. Has there been a discussion about the number of cars in the drive? The only photo I saw, on my admittedly brief search is after the cars were towed. There are 5 spots on the snowy lot were cars had been. So, there were at least five, maybe six cars parked there the night of the murders. IMO, there should have been an expectation that he could encounter more than the intended victim(s).

I suppose the weapon of choice did not preclude additional victims...
Just another rabbit hole I've hopped into.
I believe that it was also posted all over SM, so potentially he would have seen and read there. JMO
 
  • #256
We go live at 10:30 P.M. Eastern tonight.
We will be discussing the Kouri Richins case tonight, the latest in the Bryan Kohberger case, AND, it's Woo Woo Saturday Night. We want your ghost stories
 
  • #257
Good question. The type of IDs was not released to the public. If Dateline does information on what they are or where they're from, it came from someone who isn't supposed to be blabbing information.

I know people who are not authorized to do so feed info to the media all the time. However, if there are real sieves out there for this case, none has leaked anything of much evidentiary value. Makes me wonder if the sources are leaking true info. or if they are messing with the media.
I do wonder if they were student IDs. I have several theories about the WSU warrant. Student IDs would fit into one potential scenario. I wish that while Dateline were spreading rumor, they'd spread details on that one. imo
 
  • #258
The sheath was common sense. If you’re looking for a specific knife, the only reason you know what you’re looking for is because some moron left an identifying artifact behind. You can identify a bullet to a specific gun, but not a knife to stab wounds.

I wish I was the first to realize that, but I’m almost positive I was not.

The sheath alone buries him, but mark my words, this case will be an absolute slam dunk when the dna in his car comes in.
It was @Tealgrove best I can tell, with you agreeing:)
 

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  • #259
It was only by chance that there were two roommates on the third floor. And one wasn't driving her regular car.

I suspect he expected only one woman on the third floor and intended to slip in and out undetected. Singular mission.

Jmo

If we're going to discuss theories of intended target, I think this is important to mention. It makes me wonder if he had a diagram in his head of what he intended to do. While he did not sexually assault any victim, that we know of, that doesn't mean that this wasn't a sexually motivated crime. I think it's safe to say that his target(s) were women (and that he identifies as a man). He wasn't there for Ethan, IMO.

If he was there for Maddie, as implied in your post (and I think that's the best guess we have in terms of the single target theory), perhaps he intended sexual assault in one of his mental scenarios. Finding MM and KG in bed together may have set him off in a different direction, obviously (if he entered with the idea of doing something to MM, he quickly expanded into a much larger crime).

IMO.
 
  • #260
If we're going to discuss theories of intended target, I think this is important to mention. It makes me wonder if he had a diagram in his head of what he intended to do. While he did not sexually assault any victim, that we know of, that doesn't mean that this wasn't a sexually motivated crime. I think it's safe to say that his target(s) were women (and that he identifies as a man). He wasn't there for Ethan, IMO.

If he was there for Maddie, as implied in your post (and I think that's the best guess we have in terms of the single target theory), perhaps he intended sexual assault in one of his mental scenarios. Finding MM and KG in bed together may have set him off in a different direction, obviously (if he entered with the idea of doing something to MM, he quickly expanded into a much larger crime).

IMO.
There's something very personal about a knife -- domination, penetration.

May indeed have been sexually motivated.

Because ultimately and perversely he defines it.

Jmo
 
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