4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[iamshadow21]

Okay, I've rethunk... So, if M and K were sleeping in the same bed, and killed in bed, then what was causing all the noise that DM heard? Does struggling on a bed sound the same as playing with a dog? LE said Murphy was locked in K's room with no sign of having been in the crime scene areas, so it doesn't sound like he was in M's room during the attack. Did one of the girls actually try to get away then, but was chased down and thrown back on the bed? In the scheme of things, I guess it doesn't matter, but I like to understand the details. I'm just curious if the killer was caught off guard with two girls in one bed, or if they were in two rooms and K came into M's room. The sounds still make me think K walked in on things. JMO.

I always assumed that what D was woken up by was the killing of K and M. She didn't have context for the sound she'd been woken by, so she assumed it was the dog thumping around up there. I've had four standard poodles in my life (the big ones that they cross with labs to make labradoodles). They're... bouncy. High energy, jumping around dogs. Very people-focussed, affectionate. They're a dog that wants to be with you, not a dog that plays it cool, and they show it with a lot of bounce. The two I had in adulthood lived to fourteen, they only slowed down in the last year of their lives. I imagine that Murphy would be the same. Physically, he's very poodle in his body type. It wouldn't surprise me if in the past, coming back after a night out, K would take Murphy out to go potty and he'd be running and skittering around, excited and awake for a while after sleeping while she was out having fun before settling back down. Half-awake, hearing thumps above, D's brain would reach for what the sound could be, and without knowing about the situation, she assumed it was the dog because she'd heard him thumping and bouncing around before.

MOO

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Regardless of whose room is where (which I can't keep track of either), I have also always assumed that Kaylee was playing with Murphy in her own room, heard something, and went to Maddie's room. But it depends on where and how Murphy was found. It doesn't make sense to me that she'd leave Murphy in her room with the door closed. IMO, this is also why KG's wounds were worse, according to SG. I can see a scenario in which she walked in to help Maddie and caught the killer by surprise and was subsequently stabbed much more viciously.

JMO.

Where did SG say Kaylee's wounds were worse? I recall he said KG's wounds and MM's wounds didn't match.

 

[jepop]

Why?
LE noted that MM and KG texted Kaylee's ex-friend several times not long before the murders. It's completely conceivable (IMO) that they were in MM's room together and purposely or accidentally fell asleep there. They were lifelong friends who hadn't seen each other in a while and were going to be separated for some time after KG left. They may have just wanted to hang out. The dog may have been asleep in the other room or just doing his own thing.

We don't know if their doors were open before the killer arrived or whether or not the dog was crated.

RBBM: Could we get a link on when exactly LE said MM and KG stopped texting KG's ex.? I remember it being around an hour before the alleged time of the murders but do not know where that info is found. As you mention it, hoping you can supply. TIA

edit grammar

ETA: But in any event, I tend to agree with you that MM and KG were asleep together in MMs room when the killer arrived. I think the noise that DM heard that sounded like KG playing with her dog was either muffled sound of the first killings or Murphy moving in agitation in KG's room. MOO

ETA: Reflecting more, I have 3.10am stuck in my head for the time that KG sent her last message/or missed call to the ex. I'm sure the correct info must be somewhere, but if you have a link to it being reported as later/not long before the murders my memory could well be deceiving me here!

 

[SpiderFalcon]

RBBM: Could we get a link on when exactly LE said MM and KG stopped texting KG's ex.? I remember it being around an hour before the alleged time of the murders but do not know where that info is found. As you mention it, hoping you can supply. TIA

edit grammar

ETA: But in any event, I tend to agree with you that MM and KG were asleep together in MMs room when the killer arrived. I think the noise that DM heard that sounded like KG playing with her dog was either muffled sound of the first killings or Murphy moving in agitation in KG's room. MOO

Idaho murder victim's sister says she called man 7 times night of slayings: Report

The sister of Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four University of Idaho homicide victims, says she called a man named Jack six times before she was killed.

www.foxnews.com

"At 2:26 a.m., Kaylee starts to call Jack," Alivea Goncalves told "Inside Edition," which described Jack as a young man. "Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. From 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m."

 

[jepop]

Idaho murder victim's sister says she called man 7 times night of slayings: Report

The sister of Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four University of Idaho homicide victims, says she called a man named Jack six times before she was killed.

www.foxnews.com

"At 2:26 a.m., Kaylee starts to call Jack," Alivea Goncalves told "Inside Edition," which described Jack as a young man. "Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. From 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m."

Thank you! My memory was telling me either ten to three or ten past three!. Not bad!!

 

[maconrich]

Where did SG say Kaylee's wounds were worse? I recall he said KG's wounds and MM's wounds didn't match.

This says they were more brutal

Kaylee Goncalves stabbing "more brutal" than other Idaho murders—report

Police have said they believe the murders of four University of Idaho students was a "targeted" attack.

www.newsweek.com

and focus on what SG says

Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves had ‘big open gouges,’ dad reveals as he calls cops ‘cowards’

The coroner told Kaylee Goncalves’ dad that the stab wounds were more “like tears,” in her body.

nypost.com

 

[jepop]

The wrench in the works for me is Murphy. I can't see KG sleeping in MM's room without Murphy, yet I don't see the killer, who doesn't necessarily know who is in which room when he goes upstairs, having the time to lock Murphy away in the empty room, then subdue not one, but two people. It's just my personal perspective. I can better see the scenario where KG is sleeping in her room with Murphy, hears something from MM's room, so locks Murphy in her room despite him trying to get out. If she ends up in MM's room and finds herself face to face with the killer, there's no reason she couldn't have still ended up on the bed during the attack. Actually, that makes more sense to me than the idea that he killed one girl without the other one at least partially getting away, off the bed. It's all total speculation, of course.

There's a fair bit of wiggle room for different scenarios. For me, the way the PCA describes the two girls as being in the bed, makes me think KG was in the bed and that these first two horrible heinous killings were absolutely brutal but carried out very quickly on defenseless victims very likely asleep or at the very least extremely drowsy. My theory is that the sound DM heard of dog playing could have been a combination of noise generated from these first killings and Murphy being agitated in KG's room where he had been placed for the night. Also, I think the killer did know whose room was whose on the top floor and possibly XK's room as well from previous stalking events from outside the property. MOO

 

[jepop]

I always assumed that what D was woken up by was the killing of K and M. She didn't have context for the sound she'd been woken by, so she assumed it was the dog thumping around up there. I've had four standard poodles in my life (the big ones that they cross with labs to make labradoodles). They're... bouncy. High energy, jumping around dogs. Very people-focussed, affectionate. They're a dog that wants to be with you, not a dog that plays it cool, and they show it with a lot of bounce. The two I had in adulthood lived to fourteen, they only slowed down in the last year of their lives. I imagine that Murphy would be the same. Physically, he's very poodle in his body type. It wouldn't surprise me if in the past, coming back after a night out, K would take Murphy out to go potty and he'd be running and skittering around, excited and awake for a while after sleeping while she was out having fun before settling back down. Half-awake, hearing thumps above, D's brain would reach for what the sound could be, and without knowing about the situation, she assumed it was the dog because she'd heard him thumping and bouncing around before.

MOO

That's pretty much my theory to explain the dog noises. You explain and expand so well. Thumping sounds was the word I was looking for in terms of what DM may have heard and assumed was the dog. I don't think my mind wanted to go there, what kept coming to me was the word muffled MOO

 

[Charlot123]

It could be possible but I don't believe so.

To me, the breaking in and moving things around is to toy with people, make them feel scared, uneasy, paranoid, like they are being watched. I think there is a lot of power in that to a deranged mind, I think that's how he was getting his kicks whilst he was also escalating.

After hearing about the associate and BK installing her cctv, and the possibility of him using it to watch her, along with the possibility of him being the one who broke in, in the first place, it leads me to wonder about the air conditioning contractors who attended the house with LE, we all wondered what that was all about and speculated maybe they were looking for the knife, but maybe they were looking for cameras?.

Or maybe it had nothing to do with looking for nothing at all.

JMO.

JMO - air conditioning contractors were looking for anything that could be in the system. Once, my one-year-old kid, grabbed my favorite bracelet from the table and threw it into the system. Thin link bracelets slide fast, and low. I think if anyone wanted to instantly hide something, anything, central a/c system could be a good place. Or maybe, they were looking for blood or some traces.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip> IMO there is a connection, at least peripherally (I'm never saying specifically the folks that live there, but the atmosphere of the partying, possibly neighbors, or a perception of adjacent resources/purchases).

Maybe he got his drugs nearby, saw them and became infatuated. It would not be the first time something like this has occurred.

I suppose if you have a drug issue and you're relocating (whether you're using or not upon arrival) one of the first things you would probably do is figure out what your resources are. If you do breaking and entering to be able to afford drugs but no longer do them, you can be emboldened to continue this habit for a lot of reasons (money, access, curiosity, whatever).

IMO, I had not thought of this, but in the DL episode they explained that his erratic driving was what got him pulled over twice and this was LE looking for drug patterns.

I would not be surprised if he used to be clean, after rehabs, and living in parental house during Covid time, and then relapsed when living alone in a student town. I also wonder if his social presentations varied depending on whether being on drugs, or off drugs.

 

[jepop]

Some random thoughts:

If he added a security system for a friend / colleague / whatever, wouldn't she have changed her password(s) as soon as he left? Seems basic no matter who set up the system.

Drugs - yes some users / addicts do B&E's, but IME many turn to dealing instead. Not major drug dealers, but selling enough so they can meet their needs. Maybe he was using again; or maybe he was dealing? Or maybe buying / selling other things that might not be considered legal? Purely hypothetical and just possibilities (and things we may never know for sure). MOO.

BK apparently got started using heroin by a friend that lived two houses away (from where he grew up), and he reportedly used a lot with a female friend in high school. He was also good friends with the Casey girl who spoke out early (after his arrest). One of the best articles I've seen regarding his background to date names the friends. Their facebook pages and obits are still available online if anyone cares to check them out (and the photo of Bryan with Jeremy and a girl is still up on Jeremy's page).

link to the article (from 2/23)

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272531864.html

I'm sure a good number of people that knew BK haven't spoken to the media, and I don't blame them at all. But from what I've seen so far (things that have been verified), I'm not seeing that he can't get along with women or that he hates them. And that includes the fact that he's taken courses from female professors. It seems like those would be avoided in favor of clearly superior male professors - IMHO. I do reserve the right to change my mind if something solid (and factual) comes out, but for now, I'm not buying it. And I don't consider a man that is heard calling a woman a bwitch one time as a women hater. Inappropriate, perhaps: rude, yes.

I'm also not convinced that he was a mega loner all his life. He might not have the best social or people skills, but it seems like he had friends, hung out with people and went to parties and such. At least in PA. It's entirely possible he would have made friends in WA with time (if he hadn't already and we just don't know about them at this point). Again IMHO.

So if this dude did it, IMHO it was for another reason. And a reason beyond someone saying no to a cup of coffee or something stupid like that.

And IMHO I don't believe that the killer (whoever he was) went in with the intent to only harm one person. I'm inclined to think all three women were the targets. With Ethan, unless he tended to park there when he didn't stay over, it's possible the killer wasn't surprised he was there. Especially if the killer had been watching the house.

All MOO and again, random Sunday morning thoughts...

There's a difference between reason and catalyst IMO. Someone saying no to a cup of coffee would maybe be a catalyst (I understand you are just being flippant though). IMO there is some issue there with women, though it does not necessarily show itself in outright and obvious misogyny. None of us can see inside the suspects head. If found guilty, who knows - a psych could possibly make some headway if BK is capable of going there, or willing to go there. MOO.

In a crime like this- I agree with others re knife being very personaI -I think the 'reason' will not be a simple thing to understand. Perhaps, if he is guilty, he will never tell and isn't fully aware himself. IMO we people are very rarely fully aware of what motivates us, especially when it comes down to feeling driven. To me, if he did it then the brutality tells at the very least he was full of a need to end the lives of the victims, and he acted selfishly and brutally out of his own desires. Who knows what mixture of hatred, contempt, anger and fear might have driven him on. MOO

 

[arielilane]

IIRC, KG had already moved out of the residence and only visiting at the time of the murders, staying in MM's room as her room already cleaned out. Link provides a detailed account of what may have happened.

Timeline of Idaho killings: When and where the victims were targeted

A deeper look at the Idaho college killings: Mapping accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged path

www.usatoday.com

Published 6:00 AM EST Jan. 14, 2023 Updated 1:17 PM EDT May 21, 2023

 

[TL4S]

In a crime like this- I agree with others re knife being very personaI -I think the 'reason' will not be a simple thing to understand.

SBMFF
I agree, and in regards to the knife, it's like he chose one that would be extra terrifying and damaging to the victim. JMO. There's no saying that he bought it with murder in mind, but it is the one he brought along that night, nonetheless. What an absolute a-hole. It infuriates me.

 

[TL4S]

IIRC, KG had already moved out of the residence and only visiting at the time of the murders, staying in MM's room as her room already cleaned out. Link provides a detailed account of what may have happened.

Timeline of Idaho killings: When and where the victims were targeted

A deeper look at the Idaho college killings: Mapping accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged path

www.usatoday.com

Published 6:00 AM EST Jan. 14, 2023 Updated 1:17 PM EDT May 21, 2023

IIRC, there were photos through the window of K's bedroom and you could see the bed and bedding. I thought her father even mentioned that. I could well be mistaken though.

 

[Boxer]

There was no need to go into the house prior. There were real estate photos and click through virtual tours (not of the true crime type) all over the web up until weeks after the murder. That documented every square inch of the house.

It was a college property after all and the landlord likely needed it booked year after year with the turnover of students. Privacy was of little concern. Though to his credit he likely never imagined anything like this.

If BK was motivated he could have carefully studied it, memorized it, and constructed a mental map. And then sat outside of the house and gotten a pretty good idea of the photos/layouts relation to the physical space. No different than law enforcement and military forces do.

Also pondering over time the layout of the house from the parking area of Queen Rd. would reveal almost all the floor layouts.

 

[whiterhino]

There's a difference between reason and catalyst IMO. Someone saying no to a cup of coffee would maybe be a catalyst (I understand you are just being flippant though). IMO there is some issue there with women, though it does not necessarily show itself in outright and obvious misogyny. None of us can see inside the suspects head. If found guilty, who knows - a psych could possibly make some headway if BK is capable of going there, or willing to go there. MOO.

In a crime like this- I agree with others re knife being very personaI -I think the 'reason' will not be a simple thing to understand. Perhaps, if he is guilty, he will never tell and isn't fully aware himself. IMO we people are very rarely fully aware of what motivates us, especially when it comes down to feeling driven. To me, if he did it then the brutality tells at the very least he was full of a need to end the lives of the victims, and he acted selfishly and brutally out of his own desires. Who knows what mixture of hatred, contempt, anger and fear might have driven him on. MOO

RBBM to say ime something like that is all it takes. Feeling slighted can incite narcissistic rage in some people. FWIW.

 

[jepop]

SBMFF
I agree, and in regards to the knife, it's like he chose one that would be extra terrifying and damaging to the victim. JMO. There's no saying that he bought it with murder in mind, but it is the one he brought along that night, nonetheless. What an absolute a-hole. It infuriates me.

I know what you mean. If he's the one (and I do tend towards that but understand he is presumed innocent - clearly I would not be able to sit on a jury for BK) the selfishness and brutality, the audacity is absolutely infuriating.

 

[Boxer]

JMO - air conditioning contractors were looking for anything that could be in the system. Once, my one-year-old kid, grabbed my favorite bracelet from the table and threw it into the system. Thin link bracelets slide fast, and low. I think if anyone wanted to instantly hide something, anything, central a/c system could be a good place. Or maybe, they were looking for blood or some traces.

Camera?

 

[iamshadow21]

IIRC, there were photos through the window of K's bedroom and you could see the bed and bedding. I thought her father even mentioned that. I could well be mistaken though.

I can't work out how to link to it from my phone, but there's a photo taken at night from when they were processing the house where K's room is lit up, and through the balcony railing, her bed appears to have a white comforter and pillows on it. It's in the photo album linked in post one of every thread.

MOO

 

[maconrich]

There's a difference between reason and catalyst IMO. Someone saying no to a cup of coffee would maybe be a catalyst (I understand you are just being flippant though). IMO there is some issue there with women, though it does not necessarily show itself in outright and obvious misogyny. None of us can see inside the suspects head. If found guilty, who knows - a psych could possibly make some headway if BK is capable of going there, or willing to go there. MOO.

In a crime like this- I agree with others re knife being very personaI -I think the 'reason' will not be a simple thing to understand. Perhaps, if he is guilty, he will never tell and isn't fully aware himself. IMO we people are very rarely fully aware of what motivates us, especially when it comes down to feeling driven. To me, if he did it then the brutality tells at the very least he was full of a need to end the lives of the victims, and he acted selfishly and brutally out of his own desires. Who knows what mixture of hatred, contempt, anger and fear might have driven him on. MOO

I actually wasn't being flippant - at least not totally. I've read over and over that he most likely killed them because one or more of them rejected him. By rejection, I'd take it to mean he asked one or more of them out or to have a cup of coffee with him (rather than outright sexual rejection, because i think he might be a bit tactless, but not so brazen as to ask a stranger to have sex with him right away). Of course I could be wrong.

As for being misogynistic: why would a man seem to have good friends who are women if he genuinely hates women? Granted he was apparently bullied by girls when he was younger, and I can see anger, resentment and possibly psychological / emotional damage due to that, and I've wondered if boys bullied him too. Regardless it had to have an impact on him, and yet his friends from back then were his friends, and they've said he did have a small group of friends (which changed to another small group of friends when he started doing drugs). Same thing when he was in college (based on what we've been told). And a few said he'd do anything to fit in. So instead of hating women, I'd be more likely to believe he might resent and dislike people in general: or more specifically how people treated him.

A knife might be more personal, but it's quieter than a gun and faster than strangulation - and who ever did this, was apparently fast and effective. But I do see... not sure how to word this so it's not too much... It's like if you're really angry and you throw something at a wall. The act of throwing feels good and helps reduce the anger. And I can see that using a knife could do kind of the same thing. And to stab that many people, there would have to have been a lot of anger. I don't think I worded that very well, but again trying to watch what I'm saying.

I don't know what motivated the killer or what made him act on that particular night. Even if the house was being watched, what was different about that night? Something was, and IMHO, like I said, I don't think it was because someone said no to a date or a cup of coffee. That might make someone throw something at a wall, but it doesn't seem like it would make them kill four people. Then again, people kill other people over road rage and that doesn't make sense either. I can only look at what we've been told so far, and some things I can see and others I can't. In the other post, I mainly focused on the things I'm not buying - not at this point. Not based on what we know.

All MOO, IMO, etc