4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

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ChatteringBirds

ChatteringBirds

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This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

abcnews.go.com

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
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Media Thread/No Discussion
Media Thread/No Discussion #2

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

 
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And more points of interest:


"According to Defendant, this case is "full of alternate perpetrators" and he intends to produce offers of proof as to alternate perpetrators. While Defendant is correct that such offers of proof can be made at trial, this case is not well-suited to waiting until the time of trial to do so, particularly if Defendant intends to submit multiple offers of proof. Laying foundation for the admission of the evidence will likely take a significant amount of time. After all, Defendant cannot merely show another person could have committed the crime; rather, there must be "evidence (direct or circumstantial) linking the third person to the actual perpetration of the crime." 2 Clifford S. Fishman and Anne Toomey McKenna, Jones on Evidence § 13:38.50 (7th ed.) (Dec. 2024 update). To avoid undue delay at trial, Defendant must present the offer(s) of proof no later than May 14, 2025 so the matter can be addressed at the pretrial conference.° The Court will RESERVE ruling on the motion."

Bet this will result in the defense requesting another extension....and it will certainly be mentioned as another reason why they can't get through all the discovery.
 
gremlin444 said:
And more points of interest:


"According to Defendant, this case is "full of alternate perpetrators" and he intends to produce offers of proof as to alternate perpetrators. While Defendant is correct that such offers of proof can be made at trial, this case is not well-suited to waiting until the time of trial to do so, particularly if Defendant intends to submit multiple offers of proof. Laying foundation for the admission of the evidence will likely take a significant amount of time. After all, Defendant cannot merely show another person could have committed the crime; rather, there must be "evidence (direct or circumstantial) linking the third person to the actual perpetration of the crime." 2 Clifford S. Fishman and Anne Toomey McKenna, Jones on Evidence § 13:38.50 (7th ed.) (Dec. 2024 update). To avoid undue delay at trial, Defendant must present the offer(s) of proof no later than May 14, 2025 so the matter can be addressed at the pretrial conference.° The Court will RESERVE ruling on the motion."

Bet this will result in the defense requesting another extension....and it will certainly be mentioned as another reason why they can't get through all the discovery.
Click to expand...
Last time AT complained about not being able to get through all the discovery JH told her to hire 5 or 6 more paralegals. lol I don't see him granting any more 'extensions" ~ hopefully not anyhow!! 🤞moo!
 
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...alizing+Oral+Rulings+on+Motions+in+Limine.pdf

RE: traffic stop body cam footage on August 21, 2022:

"The Court finds the evidence is relevant to establish Defendant's identity and link him to the charged crimes. Indeed, the citation and OBV footage up to the point that Defendant provides his phone number'? serve to identify Defendant by name, physical appearance, phone number and address. The evidence also establishes Defendant as the registered owner and driver of a vehicle, the make and model of which was thought to be used by the killer. Further, the evidence places Defendant in Moscow at night on one of the dates of interest alleged by the State to be relevant to planning the charged crime.

Footnote: Defendant also noted at the hearing that the traffic stop occurred on the same day that Agent Ballance determined through CSLI analysis that Defendant's cell phone was using resources consistent with being in the area of 1122"

Interesting......tell me more.
 
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gremlin444 said:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...alizing+Oral+Rulings+on+Motions+in+Limine.pdf

RE: traffic stop body cam footage on August 21, 2022:

"The Court finds the evidence is relevant to establish Defendant's identity and link him to the charged crimes. Indeed, the citation and OBV footage up to the point that Defendant provides his phone number'? serve to identify Defendant by name, physical appearance, phone number and address. The evidence also establishes Defendant as the registered owner and driver of a vehicle, the make and model of which was thought to be used by the killer. Further, the evidence places Defendant in Moscow at night on one of the dates of interest alleged by the State to be relevant to planning the charged crime.

Footnote: Defendant also noted at the hearing that the traffic stop occurred on the same day that Agent Ballance determined through CSLI analysis that Defendant's cell phone was using resources consistent with being in the area of 1122"

Interesting......tell me more. Date of this incident was
Click to expand...
I gather from this that Aug 21, 2022 was one of the twenty-three times that BK's cell-phone was consistent with being in the area of 1122 King Road, between July 9, 2022 and Nov 7, 2022, and the video of the night-time traffic stop helps to corroborate some of that expected testimony. If there is a time stamp on the video, and it is later at night, after 10 pm, that will be even stronger corroboration. JMO
 
gremlin444 said:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...alizing+Oral+Rulings+on+Motions+in+Limine.pdf

RE: traffic stop body cam footage on August 21, 2022:

"The Court finds the evidence is relevant to establish Defendant's identity and link him to the charged crimes. Indeed, the citation and OBV footage up to the point that Defendant provides his phone number'? serve to identify Defendant by name, physical appearance, phone number and address. The evidence also establishes Defendant as the registered owner and driver of a vehicle, the make and model of which was thought to be used by the killer. Further, the evidence places Defendant in Moscow at night on one of the dates of interest alleged by the State to be relevant to planning the charged crime.

Footnote: Defendant also noted at the hearing that the traffic stop occurred on the same day that Agent Ballance determined through CSLI analysis that Defendant's cell phone was using resources consistent with being in the area of 1122"

Interesting......tell me more. Date of this incident was
Click to expand...
Yes, what is the date of this traffic stop? The way that Footnote is worded almost had me wondering if it was after the charged crime. I had to read it more than once. Bit confusing. I like the bolded sentence before the Footnote. :)

Eta: SteveP and I must have been typing at the same time.
 
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...uropsychological+and+Psychiatric+Evidence.pdf

RE: DCD past diagnosis and impact on BK's ability to commit crime:

"Whether Defendant was physically capable o fthe speed and dexterity to commit the crime on account of DCD is within the realm of expert opinion. As Dr. Lewine observed, DCD is "characterized by impairments in the development of motor coordination, including dexterity, limb speed, and gross and fine motor skills." Decl. Lewine, { 15. It is "associated with structural and functional disruption of motor control and coordination networks, with minimal modulation by psychological factors." Jd. However, it is not a diagnosis from which Defendant currently suffers. In her report, Dr. Orr noted DCD was a "diagnosis for which [Defendant] met criteria in the past." Further, there is nothing in her disclosure or report suggesting Defendant was physically unable to commit the crimes due to impairments associated with DCD."


From Judge Hippler's direct observation of BK over multiple hearings that were lengthy:

"Moreover, the Court has had the opportunity to observe Defendant through multiple hearings over the past several months, some lasting all day. Not once has the Court perceived Defendant to be acting in an odd or incongruent manner or otherwise demonstrating signs at counsel table that would warrant any explanation to the jury. His demeanor has been entirely appropriate. "

"Consequently, if Defendant does not testify, evidence of his ASD to explain his courtroom demeanor is inadmissible under IRE 401 and 403. Defendant's ASD can certainly be raised in voir dire, including questioning the jury panel about whether they can avoid judging the defendant improperly based on how he presents at counsel table, which may allay Defendant's concerns about how the jury will perceive him."
 
SteveP said:
I gather from this that Aug 21, 2022 was one of the twenty-three times that BK's cell-phone was consistent with being in the area of 1122 King Road, between July 9, 2022 and Nov 7, 2022, and the video of the night-time traffic stop helps to corroborate some of that expected testimony. If there is a time stamp on the video, and it is later at night, after 10 pm, that will be even stronger corroboration. JMO
Click to expand...

www.the-independent.com

Bryan Kohberger was stopped by police minutes from Idaho murders home in August

At the time of the August incident, Mr Kohberger was driving his white Hyundai Elantra – the same vehicle that would later be at the centre of the investigation into the murders
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com

"A citation from Latah County Sheriff’s Office, obtained by The Independent, reveals that the 28-year-old criminology PhD student was stopped by police on 21 August for failing to wear his seatbelt.

The traffic stop took place at around 11.40pm at the intersection of West Pullman Road and Farm Road in Moscow, Idaho.


It is not clear what Mr Kohberger was doing in the area at the time – just 1.7 miles and a five-minute drive from the home on King Road where Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were stabbed to death on 13 November after returning from a night out."
 
gremlin444 said:
www.the-independent.com

Bryan Kohberger was stopped by police minutes from Idaho murders home in August

At the time of the August incident, Mr Kohberger was driving his white Hyundai Elantra – the same vehicle that would later be at the centre of the investigation into the murders
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com

"A citation from Latah County Sheriff’s Office, obtained by The Independent, reveals that the 28-year-old criminology PhD student was stopped by police on 21 August for failing to wear his seatbelt.

The traffic stop took place at around 11.40pm at the intersection of West Pullman Road and Farm Road in Moscow, Idaho.


It is not clear what Mr Kohberger was doing in the area at the time – just 1.7 miles and a five-minute drive from the home on King Road where Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were stabbed to death on 13 November after returning from a night out."
Click to expand...
What a coincidence...
 

So, to put to rest all the debate about what DM meant went she described the intruder's body type--i.e. the debate in court about what skinny, athletic but not muscular meant, here are her specific words:

(the day of the victims were found):

D.M. gave the description a third time, repeating he had a mask, he was an inch or two taller than her, he was "basketball player kind of skinny," and a voice she did not recognize.

(same day)
At approximately 1:47 p.m. that same day, D.M. was interviewed at the Moscow Police Department by Detective Lawrence Mowery. During this interview, D.M. reported she saw a white male she did not know, "maybe my height, a few inches taller, skinny, athletic built,"

(four days later)
D.M. described the male as "skinny tone, that basketball kind of type."

(Dec 1, 2022)
D.M. stated she saw a "all black figure about my height, maybe few inches taller, skinny build," wearing a mask.

(NOTE: the above descriptions are all before BK was arrested)

(Dec. 29, 2022)
They asked D.M. whether she had seen a picture of Defendant. She stated she had seen the mug shot, but had "no clue" whether Defendant was the person she saw in her house. /d. at 96:23-97: 19. She explained: From what I remember, I just remember seeing this figure that was, like, not fat, obviously but more of like the skinnier tone build, and some mask on.

(May 15, 2023, grand jury testimony)
D.M. testified she opened her door again and saw "a figure in all black, which I believe was a person. ... I knew the person was white. I don't know how, but I just knew it. Knew it was male. I think I knew that because of the voice. The person was around my height or a few inches taller. ... And then I knew his build wasn't like scrawny, and he wasn't fat, so I figured it was like the basketball toned, lean build."
 
Bringing my post forward from right before the thread closed:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...alizing+Oral+Rulings+on+Motions+in+Limine.pdf
So many interesting bits in here.

Re: Timing Advance Records

"Defendant will be allowed to voir dire Special Agent Ballance outside the presence of the jury to ask whether he received Defendant's TA records covering the early morning hours of November 13, 2022 and the months prior, when Defendant was believed to have been in the area of 1122 King Road. However, if Agent Ballance denies having received the TA records, Defendant may not explore the matter further, either in voir dire or before the jury, given the absolute lack of any factual basis supporting his position that the State is hiding them.'° Thus, the State's motion is GRANTED, except as qualified regarding the very brief voir dire outside the presence of the jury.

footnote: Mr. Ray's affidavit, which forms the basis of the Defendant's challenge, is replete with speculation and unfounded, and, thus, highly improper accusations against the State. Further, not once in his affidavit does he address AT&T's seven-day retention period, which fully explains why the State was unable to obtain relevant TA records for Defendant."

I think that's pretty definitive.
 
gremlin444 said:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...uropsychological+and+Psychiatric+Evidence.pdf

RE: DCD past diagnosis and impact on BK's ability to commit crime:

"Whether Defendant was physically capable o fthe speed and dexterity to commit the crime on account of DCD is within the realm of expert opinion. As Dr. Lewine observed, DCD is "characterized by impairments in the development of motor coordination, including dexterity, limb speed, and gross and fine motor skills." Decl. Lewine, { 15. It is "associated with structural and functional disruption of motor control and coordination networks, with minimal modulation by psychological factors." Jd. However, it is not a diagnosis from which Defendant currently suffers. In her report, Dr. Orr noted DCD was a "diagnosis for which [Defendant] met criteria in the past." Further, there is nothing in her disclosure or report suggesting Defendant was physically unable to commit the crimes due to impairments associated with DCD."


From Judge Hippler's direct observation of BK over multiple hearings that were lengthy:

"Moreover, the Court has had the opportunity to observe Defendant through multiple hearings over the past several months, some lasting all day. Not once has the Court perceived Defendant to be acting in an odd or incongruent manner or otherwise demonstrating signs at counsel table that would warrant any explanation to the jury. His demeanor has been entirely appropriate. "

"Consequently, if Defendant does not testify, evidence of his ASD to explain his courtroom demeanor is inadmissible under IRE 401 and 403. Defendant's ASD can certainly be raised in voir dire, including questioning the jury panel about whether they can avoid judging the defendant improperly based on how he presents at counsel table, which may allay Defendant's concerns about how the jury will perceive him."
Click to expand...
BAM!!!
 
gremlin444 said:

So, to put to rest all the debate about what DM meant went she described the intruder's body type--i.e. the debate in court about what skinny, athletic but not muscular meant, here are her specific words:

(the day of the victims were found):

D.M. gave the description a third time, repeating he had a mask, he was an inch or two taller than her, he was "basketball player kind of skinny," and a voice she did not recognize.

(same day)
At approximately 1:47 p.m. that same day, D.M. was interviewed at the Moscow Police Department by Detective Lawrence Mowery. During this interview, D.M. reported she saw a white male she did not know, "maybe my height, a few inches taller, skinny, athletic built,"

(four days later)
D.M. described the male as "skinny tone, that basketball kind of type."

(Dec 1, 2022)
D.M. stated she saw a "all black figure about my height, maybe few inches taller, skinny build," wearing a mask.

(NOTE: the above descriptions are all before BK was arrested)

(Dec. 29, 2022)
They asked D.M. whether she had seen a picture of Defendant. She stated she had seen the mug shot, but had "no clue" whether Defendant was the person she saw in her house. /d. at 96:23-97: 19. She explained: From what I remember, I just remember seeing this figure that was, like, not fat, obviously but more of like the skinnier tone build, and some mask on.

(May 15, 2023, grand jury testimony)
D.M. testified she opened her door again and saw "a figure in all black, which I believe was a person. ... I knew the person was white. I don't know how, but I just knew it. Knew it was male. I think I knew that because of the voice. The person was around my height or a few inches taller. ... And then I knew his build wasn't like scrawny, and he wasn't fat, so I figured it was like the basketball toned, lean build."
Click to expand...
Thank you @gremlin444 !!!!
Look at what I emboldened. When have we ever read/been told he spoke? What did he say and when???
We have all guessed about "Im just here to help you."
But this is more unmistakable...
 
So, do I understand this right, the judge has given AT a deadline of May 14, to produce her multitude of SODDIs?

She's going to need more time than that because I don't think they've even been born yet. Octillions. She's going to need a serious population explosion and a corresponding time warp to get there.

JMO
 
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Favorite:

AT argues that 'bushy eyebrows' is too prejudicial because it's commiserate with IDing BK (apparently she's conceding that he does have bushy brybrows)... and yet, DM stopped short, she wasn't able to identify BK by photograph. So, while a description of bushy eyebrows certainly doesn't exclude BK, AT can't in fact make the claim it's overly prejudicial.

I love this judge.

Time and time and motion and motion again, the evidence isn't overly prejudicial.

It's just overly incriminating.

I hate when that happens.

JMO
 
Megnut said:
From which document did this piece of nonsense come?

BK manages his symptoms by "spending excessive time in the dark".

AT tries so hard to make her salad (cr)edible, but it's all bowl, no fixings.

JMO
Click to expand...
Nothing more than doodie salad. She has little with which to work so apparently she’s trying everything, whether that’s her strategy or BEC’s.

I can’t wait to see him waddle in wearing a onesie with a Spongbob pacifier in his mouth, clinging to his woobie.

JMO

ETA quote
 
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Warwick7 said:
Thank you @gremlin444 !!!!
Look at what I emboldened. When have we ever read/been told he spoke? What did he say and when???
We have all guessed about "Im just here to help you."
But this is more unmistakable...
Click to expand...

From that same document:

(in interview 4 days after the bodies were discovered)

She stated that sometime between 4:00 a.m. and 4:20 a.m., she woke up and heard a male's voice that she did not recognize say "It's okay, I'm going to help you."

She also stated the exact same thing at the May 15, 2023 grand jury hearing.


I believe her direct quote has also been stated in previous State filings. Since this filing is focused on the eyebrow testimony, it has likely left out the other times she made that statement to police. I will try to look back at other documents later.
 
gremlin444 said:
From that same document:

(in interview 4 days after the bodies were discovered)

She stated that sometime between 4:00 a.m. and 4:20 a.m., she woke up and heard a male's voice that she did not recognize say "It's okay, I'm going to help you."

She also stated the exact same thing at the May 15, 2023 grand jury hearing.


I believe her direct quote has also been stated in previous State filings. Since this filing is focused on the eyebrow testimony, it has likely left out the other times she made that statement to police. I will try to look back at other documents later.
Click to expand...
To whom do we think he said it?

As he descended the stairs after murdering MM and KG, was he shrouded in darkness when XK perhaps set her food in the kitchen, then emerged from the darkness as she moved toward her bedroom, his words designed to allay any fear so he could gain control over her? In three strides, he could have overtaken her, easy in the microslice of time her brain would have taken time evaluate friend v. foe, giving him the advantage, upon her while she was still processing, then a whimper as she realized he was 100% foe and by then, BK might have had her at her bedroom door, weapon to her neck, when he saw EC.

It's all too horrific, no matter how one imagines it.

JMO
 
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