4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[Ghostwheel]

But the problem is there are no facts here, we're working with what is probable and what most likely happened based on the evidence. Your argument is that 'well, anything is possible'. True, but that doesn't get us anywhere. It's also possible in the realm of imagination that he accidentally hit the wrong house, but that's highly unlikely to say the least. We can work with only what we know. Also, I might be wrong but I vaguely remember the documents mentioning that Dylan sent messages to all the roommates prior to the texts themselves but it was only Bethany who replied.

I see what you are saying, though my argument is not "well, anything is possible". I'm hoping that people can see that someone's "what is probable" and someone else's "what is probable" don't have to be the same. My probable does not include Maddie being the target. Doesn't mean I'm right, I just haven't seen any facts that proves she was so I reserve judgment. ATM, I think it was just the house. That could change next week when something else is released, because I originally thought Xana (for reasons I won't go into).

The point I was making is that I have seen posters make statements like "We can ALL see this is the only possible *whatever*" and nope, I don't see that as being the only possible *whatever* at all. And I don't think I am alone, but that is again, JMO. People get to have opinions. But we ALL get to have opinions and quite honestly, I would not mind a well thought out "They got the wrong house" theory. I'd like to nurture that a bit more. IMHO.

 

[MassGuy]

Defense has asked for a continuance, but I know if that’s in regards to a hearing (like the one tomorrow), or for the case itself.

https://s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Current-Case-Summary.pdf

 

[SamiSleuth]

So Kohberger may not have had to take the GRE to get into his master’s program if he started the program the semester after submitting his crime scene final. He likely had to take the GRE to enter the PhD program, though, and his grades would have to be stellar.

Looks like the GRE is not required at the PhD level for many programs and many universities across the US. At that level, grades and professor recommendations seem to carry more weight. Here's WSU's page:
GRE optional for WSU PhD Criminal Justice and Criminology Program

 

[Megnut]

It's hard to plot out because we don't what BK set out to do or what he might have done if everyone was asleep, sleeping single in their single/double beds.

I would be VERY curious about the then-addresses for the women whose phone numbers he got. Did he sleuth his way to a home address in Moscow and from there leapfrog to 1122.

We know he was drawn to that neighborhood, and how ever 1122 came into his view, he may have peeped in windows on foot but there's no denying that MM's window, so incredibly lit up and visible, would not have been lost on BK. Triple negative.

He watched her.

JMO

 

[femto]

I see what you are saying, though my argument is not "well, anything is possible". I'm hoping that people can see that someone's "what is probable" and someone else's "what is probable" don't have to be the same. My probable does not include Maddie being the target. Doesn't mean I'm right, I just haven't seen any facts that proves she was so I reserve judgment. ATM, I think it was just the house. That could change next week when something else is released, because I originally thought Xana (for reasons I won't go into).

The point I was making is that I have seen posters make statements like "We can ALL see this is the only possible *whatever*" and nope, I don't see that as being the only possible *whatever* at all. And I don't think I am alone, but that is again, JMO. People get to have opinions. But we ALL get to have opinions and quite honestly, I would not mind a well thought out "They got the wrong house" theory. I'd like to nurture that a bit more. IMHO.

I understand your point, but to say you haven't seen any 'facts' that Maddie is the target is dismissing a lot of what we know of the case. Multiple people have already said why they think Maddie is the most likely target. Doesn't make it true, of course, but it's the most likely scenario and that's all we're dealing with here. I don't think there is a single fact about this case other than Kohberger's DNA on the knife sheath and his phone pings. Other than that it's all speculation.

It's just that if we take the house as the target, there are numerous problems that come with it. It's not an ideal location for an attack by any means, it would have been very hard to find if you don't know what you're looking for, his movements don't really show attack on random, etc. Most of all, if it was an attack on the house, it would have probably been disorganized and spontaneous. Instead we know he made more than 20 trips there. And on the night of the murders he made repeated coming and goings behind the parking lot for 2 hours. To me this shows a well scouted crime. He knew who was living in the house and where, etc. This wasn't something he did in the spur of the moment ala Bundy's sorority attack.

At any rate, we can only hope that the trial sheds more light on this

 

[jepop]

Defense has asked for a continuance, but I know if that’s in regards to a hearing (like the one tomorrow), or for the case itself.

https://s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Current-Case-Summary.pdf

View attachment 587407

I bet it's for the trial. They filed a motion to exceed the page limit so it must be a long winded request. At least imo Hippler can be relied upon to not give one without good cause. I don't think claims about no time to go through discovery are going to cut it. Or wait, it may be alibi, wasn't the deadline for that around now? If so I think that will be denied. Gosh, hopefully the docs page will update very soon with more details.. Jmo

 

[Ghostwheel]

Records from BF and DM phone between 4-4:25 a.m. are mentioned in the arrest warrant application. Details of the messages are not mentioned in this affidavit because they are not necessary to justify arrest.

View attachment 587390

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne Seeking Arrest of Bryan C. Kohberger

www.documentcloud.org

Here is where the problem lies for me. That is a phone dump. It does not specify texts (or calls or browsing history or anything). So, no, DM did not mention texts between DM and BF. One could assume that, many did, but it was not proof in the public until it was released to the public. And no one knew what the texts actually said (and IMO we still don't have all of the texts, so what other information is in there?) But the point being, just because the PCA doesn't say DM said she locked her door before this all happened doesn't mean she didn't. The PCA doesn't say DM said she texted BF, yet she did.

And that still does not take away the fact that it's anyone's guess as to who the target was. What if his real target was BF? He wanted to have her, so he was trying to kill everyone else in the house, but there were more people there than he planned on? I can come up with a scenario that fits everything for everyone being the sole target except Ethan using just what we know as fact without even stretching. Seriously, how much weirder can ANYTHING be than that this guy broke in and killed 4 people at roughly the same time as a Door Dash delivery? I couldn't have made that one up if I tried.

Edited: Misspelled PCA

 

[MassGuy]

I bet it's for the trial. They filed a motion to exceed the page limit so it must be a long winded request. At least imo Hippler can be relied upon to not give one without good cause. I don't think claims about no time to go through discovery are going to cut it. Or wait, it may be alibi, wasn't the deadline for that around now? If so I think that will be denied. Gosh, hopefully the docs page will update very soon with more details.. Jmo

The concern I have is the defense wanting to wait until this leak investigation is over. They’ve used every means at their disposal to take the death penalty off the table, and this would offer new hope.

 

[fcavanaugh]

I see what you are saying, though my argument is not "well, anything is possible". I'm hoping that people can see that someone's "what is probable" and someone else's "what is probable" don't have to be the same. My probable does not include Maddie being the target. Doesn't mean I'm right, I just haven't seen any facts that proves she was so I reserve judgment. ATM, I think it was just the house. That could change next week when something else is released, because I originally thought Xana (for reasons I won't go into).

The point I was making is that I have seen posters make statements like "We can ALL see this is the only possible *whatever*" and nope, I don't see that as being the only possible *whatever* at all. And I don't think I am alone, but that is again, JMO. People get to have opinions. But we ALL get to have opinions and quite honestly, I would not mind a well thought out "They got the wrong house" theory. I'd like to nurture that a bit more. IMHO.

Very well stated, I agree and don’t think you’re alone. No one knows what BK’s intentions were and imo most here are using known facts and evidence publicly released so far to postulate probable theories and as you say they’re not always going to be the same and I believe most I’ve seen/read on here are plausible based on known facts and evidence.

As I stated in post upthread, I’ve toggled back and forth on the fence on whether BK targeted one student or the house/all residents of said house. IMO both are plausible and my mind may change again also as we learn more as more or new evidence gets released.

I was of the opinion MM was the sole target until the Dateline episode aired and currently leaning toward house and all its residents were the target. Anyone’s theory is as good as anyone else’s using known facts and evidence. Further, I’m not going to state in a post why I think BK was possibly surveilling the area/casing the house when most following the case closely know one of the facts is his digital trail shows he was in the area of the 1122 King Road twenty three times in the few months leading up to the massacre between hours of 10pm-4am. My posts are long enough lol, and if I post a theory I’m cautious to base it on what is known r/t publicly released facts evidence. And you’re right we all have opinions which we’re entitled to which aren’t always going to be the same and that’s ok.
It’s not about being right or wrong either, not for me anyways, and imo perfectly fine if one doesn’t agree with my theory or any theory and chooses to reserve judgement until more evidence gets released.

One of the things I love about WS is respectful discussions and enjoy coming here to read everyone’s various thoughts, theories and opinions and usually learn something new every time I’m here which is great too!

#JusticeforKaylee,Maddie,Xana,and Ethan

IMHOO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Do you all remember the case of Elliot Rodgers? The college kid who went on a crime spree killing many people, I believe both guys and girls. His main target was generic hot blonde girls. Because his type was blonde girls. And he was pissed off that he got rejected by so many of them. It was not one blonde girl in particular. He also killed some guys too, because he was pissed off at cute couples too, because he wasn't in one of those. And you know who idolized Elliot Rodgers? Bryan Kohberger.

So the idea that he just had one target is kind of silly. He just wanted to kill blonde girls. He perhaps focused more on Maddie Kaylee and Xana because he has some connection to them through various means, such as vegetarian restaurant and or Instagrams he's seen of them. Maybe meeting Kaylee at a pool party. Also perhaps he liked some things about the location, such as about the separated nature of the house, and the big windows in the back. But it really probably could have been any house of girls. It just happened to be them. Endlessly speculating on who was the specific target is kind of silly.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

We've got some legal types on here. I was just wondering what would happen if Bryan just confessed to his attorney a whole new story of what happened and pointed the blame to some other guy that he knew of. Would it be too late to accept that into court?

 

[fcavanaugh]

As far as whether MM or KG or XK being sole target or the house being target. For those that don’t subscribe to/think the house doesn’t make as much sense not as probable, well some people think him going into a house full of people to kill just Maddie for instance, was more risky and less probable as he could have got her while she was alone i.e., leaving work, leaving house, or, or, or (insert a place he could have nabbed her from while she was alone).

Again I’m still open to both, just currently leaning to one side of the fence a little more than the other, subject to change as more is revealed lol.

#JusticeforKaylee,Maddie,Xana,and Ethan

IMHOO

 

[Megnut]

We've got some legal types on here. I was just wondering what would happen if Bryan just confessed to his attorney a whole new story of what happened and pointed the blame to some other guy that he knew of. Would it be too late to accept that into court?

Sure, if he wants to take the stand.

Cue the sweatered ninjas. (Reference: Cristhian Bahena Rivera, convicted of the murder of Mollie Tibbetts. He took the stand and tanked his already tanked ship of fool.)

JMO

Defendant says Mollie Tibbetts was killed by 2 masked mystery men, in stunning claim

Cristhian Bahena Rivera, who is accused of killing Mollie Tibbetts, claims she was killed by two masked mystery men.

abcnews.go.com

 

[otto]

Here is where the problem lies for me. That is a phone dump. It does not specify texts (or calls or browsing history or anything). So, no, DM did not mention texts between DM and BF. One could assume that, many did, but it was not proof in the public until it was released to the public. And no one knew what the texts actually said (and IMO we still don't have all of the texts, so what other information is in there?) But the point being, just because the PCA doesn't say DM said she locked her door before this all happened doesn't mean she didn't. The PCA doesn't say DM said she texted BF, yet she did.

And that still does not take away the fact that it's anyone's guess as to who the target was. What if his real target was BF? He wanted to have her, so he was trying to kill everyone else in the house, but there were more people there than he planned on? I can come up with a scenario that fits everything for everyone being the sole target except Ethan using just what we know as fact without even stretching. Seriously, how much weirder can ANYTHING be than that this guy broke in and killed 4 people at roughly the same time as a Door Dash delivery? I couldn't have made that one up if I tried.

Edited: Misspelled PCA

We don't know that police did not have the full text exchange prior to filing the arrest warrant affidavit. In fact, it's quite likely they did have it given the delay between murders and arrest. There's also no reason to believe that this is not the entire text exchange between the two women in the house.



There are many scenarios that loosely fit the evidence. What's interesting is the most likely scenario that fits all the evidence. First victim was Maddie. Second victim was a house guest - can't be the primary focus. Third victim was awake and investigated. Fourth victim was a house guest - can't be the primary focus.

There's no guessing in who the suspect was most interested in when he entered the house. It was not the two houseguests (since he didn't know 100% that they would be there), or the person who was awake and became aware of someone in the house. It wasn't the two people who were in the house and who are still alive.

many more details starting p. 2:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042425+Order+on+States+Motions+in+Limine+RE+Text+Messages+and+911+Call.pdf

 

[Ghostwheel]

I understand your point, but to say you haven't seen any 'facts' that Maddie is the target is dismissing a lot of what we know of the case. Multiple people have already said why they think Maddie is the most likely target. Doesn't make it true, of course, but it's the most likely scenario and that's all we're dealing with here. I don't think there is a single fact about this case other than Kohberger's DNA on the knife sheath and his phone pings. Other than that it's all speculation.

It's just that if we take the house as the target, there are numerous problems that come with it. It's not an ideal location for an attack by any means, it would have been very hard to find if you don't know what you're looking for, his movements don't really show attack on random, etc. Most of all, if it was an attack on the house, it would have probably been disorganized and spontaneous. Instead we know he made more than 20 trips there. And on the night of the murders he made repeated coming and goings behind the parking lot for 2 hours. To me this shows a well scouted crime. He knew who was living in the house and where, etc. This wasn't something he did in the spur of the moment ala Bundy's sorority attack.

At any rate, we can only hope that the trial sheds more light on this

To be clear, I do not dismiss what we know about the case. But no one has given me any facts that show me Maddie was the only intended target. I respect their opinion, but that is all I am given: an opinion as to why someone THINKS it was Maddie. OK, someone thinks it could only be Maddie. I currently can't see it (that that is the ONLY choice), but that does not mean it isn't what the truth may turn out to be. And it also doesn't mean I don't get to have my opinion that I don't have enough facts to say it could only be one person targeted or that 23 times around a house could just mean he was checking to see when people were up and around and when it was totally dark.

I don't know that he went straight up the stairs. (Someone give me proof he never tried DMs door or looked in the living room and I can let that one go). If he did I don't know if he went for Kaylee or Maddie (someone show me proof he did not look in Kaylee's room first and I can let that one go) or just because he wanted to go from the top down, or because he saw Kaylee walking around and went up and subdued her because she was walking around, then got Maddie because he was already upstairs (that's only on the outside fringes of a possibility, but honestly, that is the first thing that came to mind for me with "sounded like Kaylee was playing with her dog").

I, too, await the trial.

 

[PinkParis2052]

What on earth could this be: Notice of Hearing - Discussion Regarding Role of Victims SEALED?

The document reveals nothing.

some people think that it may be about the Goncalves family or about the interviews that Steve does have each and every hearing since there attorney is listed on the people that got a notice about this hearing.
Notice of Hearing - Discussion Regarding the Role of Victims (SEALED)

I looked at some other documents and Shanon Gray isn't listed on those documents.

I could be wrong.

 

[Ghostwheel]

We don't know that police did not have the full text exchange prior to filing the arrest warrant affidavit. In fact, it's quite likely they did have it given the delay between murders and arrest. There's also no reason to believe that this is not the entire text exchange between the two women in the house.

View attachment 587421
View attachment 587418
There are many scenarios that loosely fit the evidence. What's interesting is the most likely scenario that fits all the evidence. First victim was Maddie. Second victim was a house guest - can't be the primary focus. Third victim was awake and investigated. Fourth victim was a house guest - can't be the primary focus.

There's no guessing in who the suspect was most interested in when he entered the house. It was not the two houseguests (since he didn't know 100% that they would be there), or the person who was awake and became aware of someone in the house. It wasn't the two people who were in the house and who are still alive.

many more details starting p. 2:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042425+Order+on+States+Motions+in+Limine+RE+Text+Messages+and+911+Call.pdf

We are not talking text exchange. We are talking whether DMs door was locked before everything started. We are talking that there was an assumption that DM did not lock her door because she didn't mention it in anything we have seen. My point is that just because there is no document that said DM Locked her door before going to bed the first time, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. DM did not mention she had a text exchange in anything the public had seen with BF in the beginning, yet it did happen.

Not mentioning Text exchange in public document does not mean it did not happen. (later docs proved it did)
Not mentioning locking door before everything happened in public door does not mean it did not happen. (we don't know if later docs might prove it did)

I get to choose my opinion. Kaylee was an original roommate, I don't consider her a "houseguest". You do, fine. Does not negate my opinion, though. There is plenty of guessing when there is no known evidence that he never tried DMs door, never looked in the living room, never looked in Kaylees room first. It's just as possible he was going to go in, kill the person in the room off of the kitchen and leave. But the door was locked and he had to choose someone else. JMO and I don't try and tell anyone it's the only valid choice.

Edited: Misspelled not

 

[Sachi]

I like all the discourse sans the hot sauce! Chill, eat a cookie , sip some tea

 

[Tragg]

We've got some legal types on here. I was just wondering what would happen if Bryan just confessed to his attorney a whole new story of what happened and pointed the blame to some other guy that he knew of. Would it be too late to accept that into court?

There is never an enforceable deadline for exculpatory evidence. However, AT would have obligations to her client, the prosecution, and the tribunal. I suspect that she would assign the defense investigator to seek corroboration evidence, and after that she would discuss the results with her client, with a realistic assessment of the options.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah I hear that a lot, but how did K ruin his fantasy? He could have dispatched Kaylee quickly and then have all his time with Maddie. If he were quiet nobody would have known. First of all he knew Kaylee was there because he heard the dog bark.

We don't know that the dog was barking. The barking heard on the audio tape could have been a neighbour's dog barking at BK heading to his car. imo

If he thought Kaylee would ruin his plans, he would have left after he heard the dog bark. I think he went for Maddie first cuz he wanted to get rid of Maddie so he can have his time with Kaylee. But Kaylee fought back too loudly.