4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

[jepop]

Thank you @jepop My speculation only. I do believe the news camera operator(s) are professional & good at what they do.

IMO Any blowup/crops of that particular photo, with the not fully zipped zipper, were by individual readers, not professionals. I'm sorry to say myself included. I apologize for that. Again my opinion & I could be wrong but I have believed since I first saw the photo that BK, knowing the scrutiny of the readers, probably did that little minor zipper thing on purpose but couldn't figure out why. I wasn't as upset by the position of the zipper as I was that, for some reason, it felt like a dirty tick to me. I hope that makes sense. After reading the no-cameras-motion, I'm more convinced the minor zipper-thing wasn't an accident. Not sure if AT knew about it before the hearing. Did BK plan this on his own? I'm beginning to wonder if his "accidents" are actual mistakes or a part of his bigger plan. Either way, it gave his team more fuel for her no-cameras motion.

As far as I can figure out and from my files:
Original photo from LewistonTribune by August Frank/Tribune
Lots of debate; trial date unchanged

IMO. Later same photo was in a pool used by other news outlets.
Yahoo News by (August Frank/The Lewiston Tribune via AP, Pool)
Trial for Idaho college killings suspect Bryan Kohberger delayed indefinitely

IMO. More later it seems the photo may have been obtained (bought?) by Getty Images
(Photo by August Frank-Pool/Getty Images)

Speculation & my opinion only, IMO,JMO, MOO

Again my apologies for any part I played in zipper-gate.

No judgement on you @I'm Nobody. I remember your post and know you were coming at it analytically. I rolled and scrolled at the time because I'm repulsed by the thought of defendant committing this crime and the zipper brought images to me that I did not want to entertain.

Thanks for posting what looks like the original source. And for clearing up 'zipper gate'! It really isn't the Judge's purview what individuals do with a photo that's civil and presumably not creating a bias that will contaminate the jury pool. The main thing I was interested in putting to rest was a notion that court pool camera was responsible for any zoom in of BK's zipper. That doesn't appear to be the case. Moo

Re para I bolded. Well Idk, could be deliberate or an accident. But I think if the D is focussing on 'zipper gate' as a basis for ban, that is not going to hold. The judge does not control what the public do with respectable and professional footage from a hearing Imo. But I haven't read the camera ban motion yet in any detail. One thing is for sure, Bk should be zipping up in future because there are always going to be people who are interested in these things. Moo

 

[NextSprint]

As a Brit - where cameras were only allowed into criminal court last year, and only then to broadcast the judge (the only person in-frame) reading out their sentencing remarks - I am having mixed feelings about the camera thing.

Well my initial response is: Latah County Court isn't equipped for the 21st century, its microphones are terrible (or at least its audio feed is), and the camera issue could be addressed as somebody said up-thread, by having a single camera in fixed position and that being the official court camera. By giving it to a pool to manage you're just creating room for ambiguity. They need to get these things ironed out, at the very least a quality audio feed, because this is a public proceeding, and it should be available to the public (both the general public and also importantly the communities that the crime has touched).

 

[NextSprint]

Tabloids being tabloids is why I requested a source: <modsnip>

If the media does their job responsibly, the judge won't have to ban delayed video. If they continue to refuse to do so, he made it clear that no video will be allowed, delayed or not, in the courtroom. Honestly we managed to keep up with trials for decades without having them live streamed or tweeted in real time. I'm all for transparency, but even the state agreed with the no video / cameras because they have witnesses they want to protect during trial. It's not coming from just the defense. But, yes, I'll agree to disagree.

All IMO

I agree with you maconrich, don't worry

 

[NextSprint]

Also thinking about the zipper, my instinct was "look, the guy can't even remember to zip up, how would he commit such a master-crime which depended on acute control of the details to get away with it". Then my mind put button poppers and zips together and I had a little argument with myself.

I have ADHD, and have had waxing/waning brain fog since getting long COVID. I've noticed recently (e.g. the last six months) forgetting the zipper a handful of times, whereas I made it from age 20-40 without it ever really happening. It does happen when one is stressed, distracted by something mentally taxing, when rushing in a way that is stressful, etc. But it doesn't happen to everyone.

What strange roads this case has taken us down...

 

[TL4S]

Also thinking about the zipper, my instinct was "look, the guy can't even remember to zip up, how would he commit such a master-crime which depended on acute control of the details to get away with it". Then my mind put button poppers and zips together and I had a little argument with myself.

I have ADHD, and have had waxing/waning brain fog since getting long COVID. I've noticed recently (e.g. the last six months) forgetting the zipper a handful of times, whereas I made it from age 20-40 without it ever really happening. It does happen when one is stressed, distracted by something mentally taxing, when rushing in a way that is stressful, etc. But it doesn't happen to everyone.

What strange roads this case has taken us down...

Yeah, it happens. And some zippers come partially undone on their own. To me, this open fly focus is needlessly meant to humiliate and degrade BK.

I don't think BK was trying to send some sick message or anything like that, nor should we care whether he was, or if he simply made a fashion faux pas. He could sit in the courtroom in his underwear and it wouldn't change the seriousness of the proceedings. Jmo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

While I have no sympathy for BK, even I have to agree with this.

I worry about the person behind the camera. Was this the same one that kept turning the view back on BK so much - instead of the people who were speaking?

Not a good perspective - on sooo many levels.

I agree, they were sternly warned about focusing on BK and yet they continue to do so. Not as bad as the first couple of hearings IMO, but still noticeable. I wouldn't be surprised if the Judge disallowed them going forward.

This is why we can't have nice things (best Swiftie impersonation )

moo

 

[jepop]

We know 2 firm dates MOO

11/29/2922
WSU linked to car with "one plate" to BK on November 29th. (pca)

White Elantra Public appeal 12/7/2022 (Meaning they knew prior, more support that they acted in a careful manner)

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24894/12-07-22-Moscow-Police-Ask-for-Communitys-Help

Now looking for date profile was made. I think they linked him by the car and video prior to the profile and IGG and it was subsequently confirmed by cast cell data, father's dna, and ultimately his direct DNA

I don't think the "They did the family tree and only then made BK fit as the suspect" is going to work. I think they had BK as a suspect within 2 weeks time - they just needed to confirm it. They didn't tell us of course, but they knew.

They had the car
One plate
Re-registration 5 days later traced back to the car
The cell phone linked to the car and BK (via previous traffic stops)
And both linked to the house

Followed by video of him exiting that car at the supermarket.

They just needed corroboration.

Logic dictates the DNA wasn't done yet for the simple fact that they needed this guy off the streets. They wouldn't have played around. They would have picked him up immediately imo. They were already concerned for the welfare of 2 witnesses/surviving victims. Doesn't make sesne they'd wait if they had it.

Not having this is why they had to wait and follow him all the way back to PA. So, I'm interested to see what AT is going to say to bolster this "They picked him to fit the evidence" argument bc so far it seems clear the evidence picked him.

jmo

I'd say cell phone data (23rd Dec warrants) came after IGG but everything else that you mention before -that is 1) King road neighbourhood SVI (suspect vehicle 1) footage including Indian Hills and Styner (showing single plate only elantra); 2) 2014-2016 elantra footage in Pullman early am hours Nov 13th and; 3) BK ID on 29th Dec as a POI-with physical characteristics that do not exclude him from DM's description.

My guess is IGG tip provided to LE by fbi after all of the above - say around 20th Dec. Moo

Also speculate some time in mid December prior to 13th when BK left for PA, LE may have attempted to get BK dna sample via legal but surreptitious methods - ie BK trash - and failed owing to BK being careful. On 23rd Dec LE got a trace on BK's number via warrant - at that point, if they didn't know where he was at/had got to, they knew then. I believe fbi surveilance of BK began in PA on or about 23rd December, up until family trash collection on 27th and arrest on 30th. Moo

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Thank God none of us can get into BK's head and know why his zipper was unzipped.

Whatever the cause, it appears AT has chosen to try to make a mountain out of a mole hill again. If it is so important, then her team should do a visual check on their defendant before all public appearances. But she chooses, rather, to use it as a basis for a motion to ban cameras in the courtroom.

Ultimately, in my opinion, neither she nor the court have enough jurisdiction and power to control public thoughts, opinions, or gossip. Gag order or not.

Like many of her motions, I wish we could pickle this red herring.

MOO!

 

[10ofRods]

As if the jury isn't going to watch Kohberger carefully, when they're in the room.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

Well, IMO, now we have confirmation she reads here.

>>>waving<<<< hi ya

Judge can settle that tizzy with a single stream, wide angle, no close ups.

Yawn. I'm getting bored with the motions.

JMO

RBBM: That may be the simplest solution Imo. On 18th Aug the pool camera operator over-focussed on BK in the pre-lunch session when P was arguing against D witnesses IIRC. They argued with the Bailiff and were subsequently reprimanded by Judge. I'd be surprised if they haven't been severely reprimanded by Court TV aswell. Moo


According to the D in their motion,

"The press have failed to obey the Court’s directive not to exclusively photograph and record Mr. Kohberger to the exclusion of all else,..."

Infact, the court pool camera operator didn't do this all the time to the exclusion of all else. But still, Imo, the period of over-focus was not good enough.

Maybe the previous court directive, as characterised by the D here, is not detailed enough. Jmo I think what the judge needs to attend to is strict rules and practice around 'over-focus', define it and apply it. His prior directive was good but needs to be refined. Moo

If for some reason this proves impossible then as you suggest - single stream wide angle could be the way to go. Or maybe just go there straight away.
But think the Judge will consider carefully. There won't be a knee-jerk reaction. Moo

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/082423-Motion-to-Remove-Cameras-from-Courtroom.pdf

 

[10ofRods]

The Judge in the Letecia Stauch case was so patient - but he also chose the camera angles himself. There were a few combinations of where she sat and where the cameras were (and where the witness cameras were) and one time, there was an accidental showing of the jury (very brief) and the Judge just rolled on, continuing to correct and station the cameras as he wished. That Judge realized the importance of non-secretive proceedings in American jurisprudence.

Since not all people who wished to see the public trial could fit in the courtroom, I believe Judge Werner handled it beautifully, balancing the various parts of the Constitution.

I hope Judge Judge will do the same.

 

[jepop]

The Judge in the Letecia Stauch case was so patient - but he also chose the camera angles himself. There were a few combinations of where she sat and where the cameras were (and where the witness cameras were) and one time, there was an accidental showing of the jury (very brief) and the Judge just rolled on, continuing to correct and station the cameras as he wished. That Judge realized the importance of non-secretive proceedings in American jurisprudence.

Since not all people who wished to see the public trial could fit in the courtroom, I believe Judge Werner handled it beautifully, balancing the various parts of the Constitution.

I hope Judge Judge will do the same.

Great point, he could take a leaf out of Judge Werner's book. I watched a lot of that trial too and thought he was excellent with the cameras. The cameras were directed and focused where they needed to be. I'm sure triple J will inform himself widely of the options.Moo. He's trained to be level headed and not get caught up in hyperbole right?. BK should be treated fairly but shouldn't have special rights that over-ride reasonable expectations of transparency in judicial procedure (the gag order addresses content and is not meant to be at odds with transparent procedure If I understand that correctly). And it's a reality that modern day culture and society in the US utilise camera coverage in trials. Seems to me the procedures and rules around their use are being continually updated and refined in the light of ongoing experience. Removing all coverage would Imo be a knee-jerk and backward reaction.

 

[al66pine]

WINNER of POST of the DAY,
Neologism category: "zipper-gate"
***** @I'm Nobody *****

Whether you believe BK's zipper event at recent hearing was planned or an accident, pls give a round of applause - by likes / loves - for @I'm Nobody.

Not even noon (in my time zone, Saturday), but
I doubt if anyone can beat this creative new phrase.

.... the minor zipper-thing....[/I] Not sure if AT knew about it before the hearing. Did BK plan this on his own? I'm beginning to wonder if his "accidents" are actual mistakes or a part of his bigger plan. Either way, it gave his team more fuel for her no-cameras motion....
my apologies for any part I played in zipper-gate.

(sbm)
@I'm Nobody No apology needed.

 

[gremlin444]

Again my opinion & I could be wrong but I have believed since I first saw the photo that BK, knowing the scrutiny of the readers, probably did that little minor zipper thing on purpose but couldn't figure out why. I wasn't as upset by the position of the zipper as I was that, for some reason, it felt like a dirty tick to me. I hope that makes sense. After reading the no-cameras-motion, I'm more convinced the minor zipper-thing wasn't an accident. Not sure if AT knew about it before the hearing. Did BK plan this on his own? I'm beginning to wonder if his "accidents" are actual mistakes or a part of his bigger plan. Either way, it gave his team more fuel for her no-cameras motion.

IMHO, if it wasn't part of a plan to be able to use as evidence when pushing for a no cameras decision, it comes down to something much simpler:

He's been wearing jail/prison attire primarily (except a few court appearances) since his arrest nearly 8 full months ago. And prison pants definitely don't have zippers. So he gets out of the habit of double checking--coupled with what I'm pretty sure is a lacking of full body mirrors in the jail or the holding areas of the courthouse. JMHO.

 

[Boxer]

IMHO, if it wasn't part of a plan to be able to use as evidence when pushing for a no cameras decision, it comes down to something much simpler:

He's been wearing jail/prison attire primarily (except a few court appearances) since his arrest nearly 8 full months ago. And prison pants definitely don't have zippers. So he gets out of the habit of double checking--coupled with what I'm pretty sure is a lacking of full body mirrors in the jail or the holding areas of the courthouse. JMHO.

MOO He looked upset, no coat, too hot. He was looking at having to stay jailed longer.
(I think guilty but he has not had his day day court.)

It's BS to treat any defendent in this manner.
Maybe only some entity like CSpan should be televising or the court itself with a straight camera angle of the judge and witness box.

These media that are not following rules set up for fairness detract from justice.

 

[iamshadow21]

The Judge in the Letecia Stauch case was so patient - but he also chose the camera angles himself. There were a few combinations of where she sat and where the cameras were (and where the witness cameras were) and one time, there was an accidental showing of the jury (very brief) and the Judge just rolled on, continuing to correct and station the cameras as he wished. That Judge realized the importance of non-secretive proceedings in American jurisprudence.

Since not all people who wished to see the public trial could fit in the courtroom, I believe Judge Werner handled it beautifully, balancing the various parts of the Constitution.

I hope Judge Judge will do the same.

For all that it was all broadcast, it was the furthest from a circus I can think of. Judge Werner did so well at keeping that trial a dignified, calm and orderly affair, with respect and decorum. I could have been dreadful, a parade of drama and dirty pool, and it wasn't. And he didn't keep it that way by shouting and raging, just by the quiet, consistent expectation of everyone being on their best behaviour, and with one or two rare exceptions, it worked beautifully. He set the bar very high for my expectations of what a trial should and can be like. I have equally high hopes for Judge Judge.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

For all that it was all broadcast, it was the furthest from a circus I can think of. Judge Werner did so well at keeping that trial a dignified, calm and orderly affair, with respect and decorum. I could have been dreadful, a parade of drama and dirty pool, and it wasn't. And he didn't keep it that way by shouting and raging, just by the quiet, consistent expectation of everyone being on their best behaviour, and with one or two rare exceptions, it worked beautifully. He set the bar very high for my expectations of what a trial should and can be like. I have equally high hopes for Judge Judge.

MOO

Super agreed. Judge Werner was the consummate professional from beginning to end. I had no idea what to expect going into that trial because we all know the crazy antics LS has pulled, but he handled her and both sides of attorneys with the utmost decorum.

You're right, he didn't have to yell, class whispers. I'm with you hoping that Judge JJ steps up to the plate here.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Super agreed. Judge Werner was the consummate professional from beginning to end. I had no idea what to expect going into that trial because we all know the crazy antics LS has pulled, but he handled her and both sides of attorneys with the utmost decorum.

You're right, he didn't have to yell, class whispers. I'm with you hoping that Judge JJ steps up to the plate here.

MOO

He only shouted once, and that was 'STOP!' at Dr Lewis, because she would not stop rabbiting on despite an objection being made and sustained. She tried his and everybody else's patience more than anyone else, even LS, I think. There were a couple of points where the defense looked like they wanted to yeet her from the courtroom, and she was THEIR witness! Even then, it didn't feel like he did it out of his own frustration, just that he resorted to it because she was not listening to quieter, politer orders to not continue. A true gentleman doing a very difficult job with grace. Rather than 'ruining' me for all other judges, he gave me great hope that there are many of them out there, overseeing trials with quiet competence. I have great hope that this trial is going to be equally skillfully managed.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

He only shouted once, and that was 'STOP!' at Dr Lewis, because she would not stop rabbiting on despite an objection being made and sustained. She tried his and everybody else's patience more than anyone else, even LS, I think. There were a couple of points where the defense looked like they wanted to yeet her from the courtroom, and she was THEIR witness! Even then, it didn't feel like he did it out of his own frustration, just that he resorted to it because she was not listening to quieter, politer orders to not continue. A true gentleman doing a very difficult job with grace. Rather than 'ruining' me for all other judges, he gave me great hope that there are many of them out there, overseeing trials with quiet competence. I have great hope that this trial is going to be equally skillfully managed.

MOO

Yes, I forgot about Dr. Lewis, I must have subconsciously tried to delete her from my brain entirely. Whew, that was 'something'.

I do wonder if Judge JJ will remove the cameras from court here with BK?

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes, I forgot about Dr. Lewis, I must have subconsciously tried to delete her from my brain entirely. Whew, that was 'something'.

I do wonder if Judge JJ will remove the cameras from court here with BK?

I think we've all done that, some of us more successfully than others!

I have a strong suspicion this trial is going to be like the Vallow trial in terms of video. I think we're going to be lucky if we get any photographs, and we might get journalists 'pooling' again to fund a court artist so they have some kind of picture to put with their articles. No idea if audio will be made available, or if reporters will be restricted from live tweeting.

MOO