4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[SpiderFalcon]

Absolutely 10ofRods suggested just how difficult it would be to remove all the DNA from a car, even going as far a describing the seat belt material and so forth, the brake/gas pedals and other areas of the car. It was a detailed and great post by her and made 100% sense (as she usually does) of how LE's forensics work.

From just a real quick search...Im sure there is more, again what she states makes perfect sense, Hopefully she will chime in and help give some understanding to why there is no DNA basically anywhere for BK

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

Thanks, @Nila Aella Sounds like it's "all about the DNA" testing details, IMO. Well, I'd say the phone movements are important as well. They correspond to the Elantra arriving near 1122 at a time corresponding to his departure from Pullman. He turns his phone off. That's evidence. Then a car...

www.websleuths.com

@10ofRods said:

NEVER SAID "IMPOSSIBLE".

 

[FansBlowing]

Kohberger probably had seat covers or plastic over his seats in anticipation of DNA evidence. There was plenty of time to clean his car every day before he was arrested too.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

In this interview Brian Entin is talking about knowing his name before it got public and immediately searching for his socials and not finding anything with his name, no instagram account.

I just gotta comment. You're talking about someone reporting some unverifiable info on a "news" media platform one step up from TMZ ? You might be kinda sorta posting this clip as something of substantiative proof of what exists or not?
I'm just asking and giving my opinion.

 

[Balthazar]

First of all, why would anyone expect there to be 'evidence' in his office or parents house, at all?

His car and apartment likely had some forensic evidence for a few days at least. But 47 days later??? He was getting his Masters in criminology. So he knew what they would look for. He had plenty of time to clean and reclean and clean again.

His car would have been a goldmine if they had arrested him on the 13th. IMO

Good question! Why would LE expect there to be 'evidence" in his office or parents house? We know for certain that LE searched both locations.

As to his car, LE took it apart and didn't find anything in the usual crevices and other areas which are difficult to get to. While we know he cleaned his very dirty car AFTER the long roadtrip with his father, so far we have heard nothing at all about him cleaning his car after the 13th of November. I would think if there was evidence he did that LE would have made sure to release that information or there would have been video subpoenaed from a car wash or gas station, but we have seen no such subpoenas. Where I live LE put out video of a murder suspect cleaning his car at a gas station early the next morning which was run on the local news. Despite all that suspects efforts to clean up, the victim's DNA was still found in his car. While BK's neighbors talked about his "up all night" habits of cleaning, they have never mentioned him cleaning his car at all nor has anyone else in Pullman or Moscow or anywhere else nearby stepped forward to say they saw him clean his car after the murders.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Absolutely 10ofRods suggested just how difficult it would be to remove all the DNA from a car, even going as far a describing the seat belt material and so forth, the brake/gas pedals and other areas of the car. It was a detailed and great post by her and made 100% sense (as she usually does) of how LE's forensics work.

From just a real quick search...Im sure there is more, (I believe even much more in depth to the process), what she states makes perfect sense, Hopefully she will chime in and help give some understanding to why there is no DNA basically anywhere for BK

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

Thanks, @Nila Aella Sounds like it's "all about the DNA" testing details, IMO. Well, I'd say the phone movements are important as well. They correspond to the Elantra arriving near 1122 at a time corresponding to his departure from Pullman. He turns his phone off. That's evidence. Then a car...

www.websleuths.com

Right, you replied to my reply to Sozo who stated it was impossible, that's where the confusion is coming in. I understand difficult verses impossible.

I still don't believe not finding DNA is impossible if BK had prepared his person (body) and car against possible contamination, which he would obviously know how to do as a Criminal Justice major.

MOO

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

The Defense says there was no victim DNA evidence found in his car, office, apartment or his parents house. There was "precious little" evidence found at all. All of this is according to Ann Taylor who has seen the actual discovery and wrote this in a court filing. Defense attorneys are not permitted to lie in court filings or anything they do or say in court as they could be fined, jailed or disbarred or all of those things. It is against the law in Idaho for the Prosecution or Defense to keep secret evidence.

Now, IMO, AT should have gotten a reprimand for putting this info into one of her multitudinous "motions".
She seems to be trying to sway perspective jurors, or at the least disseminate info that should have been under the gag order. But, yet again, I am not a lawyer (IANAL) and this is just my opinion.

As far as the "precious little" (again, should have been reprimanded, IANAL)....do you mention this ( I KNOW you are just quoting her motion) because it's like a "pinch" or a "dash" in a recipe? Or, perhaps having a drink that's "a wee bit for medicinal purposes"??
What is the expectation of what "precious little" ? It must certainly include AT fighting tooth and nail to get the GJ decision overturned, when they were just doing what GJ's have done for ages. Perhaps trying to find an issue with the DNA evidence that one of the supposed "experts" back walked on in a social media platform ?

I don't know what the Prosecution has in terms of evidence. Many cases have been won using circumstantial evidence alone. At least the murderer made it so it's not a "no body no crime" case.
I don't have to accept innocent till proven guilty. I don't. This is all just IMO and MOO.

 

[Sozo]

@10ofRods said:
View attachment 447849
NEVER SAID "IMPOSSIBLE".

If there is no DNA evidence in his car, the consensus here on Websleuths was that there must be sign of cleaning, an effort to getting rid of DNA. There is no such explanation, no proof. Impossible without there not being sign of cleaning or other method of getting rid of it.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

If there is no DNA evidence in his car, the consensus here on Websleuths was that there must be sign of cleaning, an effort to getting rid of DNA. There is no such explanation, no proof.

1. There was a consensus on Websleuths???
2. How do you know there is no explanation, no proof??? There's that pesky gag order, and other than the PCA, and various motions, we have no idea what EVIDENCE has been turned up.

IMO, JMO

 

[maskedwoman]

Good question! Why would LE expect there to be 'evidence" in his office or parents house? We know for certain that LE searched both locations.

Forensic evidence? I wouldn't expect that and I doubt LE did either. Other kinds of evidence? You never know. Especially if he might have brought things home from his apartment at school.

 

[maskedwoman]

The Defense says there was no victim DNA evidence found in his car, office, apartment or his parents house. There was "precious little" evidence found at all. All of this is according to Ann Taylor who has seen the actual discovery and wrote this in a court filing. Defense attorneys are not permitted to lie in court filings or anything they do or say in court as they could be fined, jailed or disbarred or all of those things. It is against the law in Idaho for the Prosecution or Defense to keep secret evidence.

If I could suggest, there can be a wide margin between interpreting information one way or the other and flat out lying. Language is used as a scalpel by attorneys, while we are not generally so careful in our everyday communications. Get together a dozen people and the understood definition of certain words can vary a bit. Are there specific definitions of certain words within the legal community that differ a bit from everyday use? It wouldn't surprise me. I do know in contracts and trials, one word can make the difference between a ruling in your favor or not. For example when AT said there was no known "connection". I mentioned earlier that it depends on which definition of connection you are using.

 

[rainbowshummingbird]

If there is no DNA evidence in his car, the consensus here on Websleuths was that there must be sign of cleaning, an effort to getting rid of DNA. There is no such explanation, no proof. Impossible without there not being sign of cleaning or other method of getting rid of it.

Luckily, for the prosecution, it isn’t necessary to show that cleaning took place in order to find Kohberger guilty of murder. Also, isn’t necessary to show that the murderer knew the victim in order for him to be guilty of their murders.

 

[IDK]

If there is no DNA evidence in his car, the consensus here on Websleuths was that there must be sign of cleaning, an effort to getting rid of DNA. There is no such explanation, no proof. Impossible without there not being sign of cleaning or other method of getting rid of it.

I remember those discussions as well. There were multiple posts from different folks that it would be well near impossible to not have left some evidence behind in the car. Everyone here is well aware of BK’s background in criminology. Thank you to Montecore for posting some links.


It’s an interesting point that none has been found. Sure there are possible explanations, but it is still notable and worthy of discussion, IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If there is no DNA evidence in his car, the consensus here on Websleuths was that there must be sign of cleaning, an effort to getting rid of DNA. There is no such explanation, no proof. Impossible without there not being sign of cleaning or other method of getting rid of it.

That isn't my consensus. I believe BK, a Criminal Justice major, knew how to DNA proof his automobile. I'm not shocked that there wasn't any DNA found in it at all.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Absolutely 10ofRods suggested just how difficult it would be to remove all the DNA from a car, even going as far a describing the seat belt material and so forth, the brake/gas pedals and other areas of the car. It was a detailed and great post by her and made 100% sense (as she usually does) of how LE's forensics work.

From just a real quick search...Im sure there is more, (I believe even much more in depth to the process), what she states makes perfect sense, Hopefully she will chime in and help give some understanding to why there is no DNA basically anywhere for BK

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

Thanks, @Nila Aella Sounds like it's "all about the DNA" testing details, IMO. Well, I'd say the phone movements are important as well. They correspond to the Elantra arriving near 1122 at a time corresponding to his departure from Pullman. He turns his phone off. That's evidence. Then a car...

www.websleuths.com

Good morning.

I think that in order for there to be no victim DNA in the car, he had to have planned from the very beginning to try and avoid any kind of victim blood inside his car. That's why I believe he started with a plan that included the following:

1. Use a method of killing that keeps most blood beneath a blanket/comforter and avoids arterial blood spurt. (But we know the killer got blood on at least the bottom of one shoe)
2. Dress so that any blood spatter remained on shoes and clothes that he planned to destroy/hide
3. Prepped car in some manner so that trunk and driver's seat had coverings (a cheap car seat cover, maybe plastic bags on foot pedals; puts on new gloves after stashing his crime clothing in a plastic bag or similar; maybe even a steering wheel cover
4. Intense cleaning of the car afterwards, possibly including more than one type of cleaner
5. Intense cleaning of his apartment (even though, after following 1-4 above there was likely little victim DNA on his body when he walked through the door).

In short, he had very little victim blood on himself (no reports of blood drops alongside the existing footprints). He was prepared in advanced to prevent victim DNA getting onto his person or his car. Something went awry, as he did step in enough blood to leave prints (and there could be no latent print without there being other prints, IMO).

But by removing his shoes and clothing before getting into the car and putting absolutely everything into plastic bags, he avoided leaving tell-tale evidence in his car.

He had 40+ days to keep cleaning, but he had to have carefully planned in order to both avoid the blood in the first place and then to discard his clothing carefully. Someone here on WS described how military train to be able to doff and don protective clothing/gear in 30 seconds or less.

What he did is not unbelievable or difficult to imagine. Something as simple as repeated use of certain common household cleaners would have left his pre-prepared car free of victim DNA. Required intense focus.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

If I could suggest, there can be a wide margin between interpreting information one way or the other and flat out lying. Language is used as a scalpel by attorneys, while we are not generally so careful in our everyday communications. Get together a dozen people and the understood definition of certain words can vary a bit. Are there specific definitions of certain words within the legal community that differ a bit from everyday use? It wouldn't surprise me. I do know in contracts and trials, one word can make the difference between a ruling in your favor or not. For example when AT said there was no known "connection". I mentioned earlier that it depends on which definition of connection you are using.

This is the part that interests me. If "connection" means phone calls and texts, that's one thing. If it means parasocial connection, that's quite different. Does it include stalking and spying? I mean, I wouldn't regard myself "connected" to a person who parked near my house and stared through my windows. What does AT mean by "connection"?

"Connection" is a two-way word, to me (meaning two things have come together and left a visible sign of having come together). What if it's all one-way?

Just some questions that plague me. What if the connection is mostly symbolic (one of the victims resembled a type or a person that evoked interest from the killer?) I'd say that's a connection, but one that the killer would have to reveal to the world. But the real questions are whether on those other trips to the area of 1122, he watched or spied.

IMO

 

[IDK]

That isn't my consensus. I believe BK, a Criminal Justice major, knew how to DNA proof his automobile. I'm not shocked that there wasn't any DNA found in it at all.

JMO

Each is entitled to their own opinion, of course. That’s how WS works.

So he’s a criminal mastermind when it came to protecting his car? How do you square that with his phone use that night, if guilty, in light of his criminal genius status? Not trying to be disrespectful, just wondering how you would explain that disparity?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Each is entitled to their own opinion, of course. That’s how WS works.

So he’s a criminal mastermind when it came to protecting his car? How do you square that with his phone use that night, in light of his criminal genius status? Not trying to be disrespectful, just wondering you would explain that disparity?

I didn't say he was a criminal mastermind and never referred to him as a criminal genius. Obviously not, cause he's sitting in jail charged with robbery and 4 counts of 1st degree murder.

He knew enough about LE procedures to protect his car against potential DNA contamination. He needed his phone because he had to dispose of evidence after the murders and needed navigation, plus with his VSS (if true) he would have trouble with directions on his round about way back to Pullman.

JMO

 

[IDK]

I didn't say he was a criminal mastermind and never referred to him as a criminal genius. Obviously not, cause he's sitting in jail charged with robbery and 4 counts of 1st degree murder.

He knew enough about LE procedures to protect his car against potential DNA contamination. He needed his phone because he had to dispose of evidence after the murders and needed navigation, plus with his VSS (if true) he would have trouble with directions on his round about way back to Pullman.

JMO

OK, thanks for your opinion!

 

[10ofRods]

I remember those discussions as well. There were multiple posts from different folks that it would be well near impossible to not have left some evidence behind in the car. Everyone here is well aware of BK’s background in criminology. Thank you to Montecore for posting some links.


It’s an interesting point that none has been found. Sure there are possible explanations, but it is still notable and worthy of discussion, IMO.

Just want to say that there are several methods of cleaning that would not be easily detectable. People do clean their cars. I was surprised to learn that luminol can be purchased on amazon for under $30.

That would be a handy addition to a cleaner's kit. With further cleaning (using regular car cleaners), it would be hard to detect (although maybe). Those enzymatic cleaners people buy to remove pet stains and odors would do for that.

IMO.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Yes i did. Here is the right one. At 12 minute mark. She is speaking about not knowing his name before arrest.

The point is that how could they find his instagram account if they didn't know his name before arrest. And how can they tell if the one they found is not a fake one, many popped up right after his arrest.

And there is this also.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11587027/amp/Idaho-murders-Victims-father-says-never-heard-suspect-Bryan-Kohberger.html&ved=2ahUKEwjmiPvK67KBAxVPgP0HHW3BDKkQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw00YjAca37zeuea6cCezhUF

In the 48 hours episode, she explains that they had not known BK's name until an arrest. Once they learned his name, she knew she had a very small window to investigate herself before any accounts would be deleted or made private. So she quickly quickly found what she could and took screenshots. She said that she also gave them to LE. I don't know if she had BK's name before the public did but I would guess so becaue lots of times LE will notify the family of victims first as a humane courtesy.