4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[katydid23]

Exactly right, which is exactly why my proposal of an alternate reason he may have been nearby should be non-controversial here.

The controversial part is probably because neither BK or his DT has ever said he was studying at the out of state library. It seems like something someone made up. IMO

 

[Boxer]

In the PCA, LE brings BK into the narrative around 2:45 am on Nov. 13, in Pullman, on campus and turning off his phone before heading toward 270, which leads to Moscow. Based on that, I sort of had a picture of BK being in his apartment up until then, which made me question how he would know what was going on at the King Rd house, unless there was an online element we don't know about.

But, then AT stated that BK was out driving around late on the 12th and early on the 13th. One could argue that if this is truly what BK was doing, it doesn't mean it was related to the murders, but I feel like AT inserting the part about him driving late on the 12th might suggest BK needed an alibi for something that occurred on the 12th, as well. JMO.

Since we don't know anything about camera or phone data from late on the 12th, we have no idea where he was, but that data would have likely been collected during the investigation and is well known to the State and the D by now. What we do know is that he was back in Pullman around 2:45 am on the 13th, turning off his phone, and heading in the direction of Moscow.

This is JMO, but it seems awfully suspicious to me that he was likely driving around during the hours that the victims were out and about on the 12th, then we have this void of 45 min to 1 hour between when the victims all got home around 1:45/2 am and when BK was in Pullman (after supposedly already being out driving), turning off his phone and heading in the direction of Moscow, out for another drive. Really? I mean, I can only take a guess, but the fact that AT includes late on the 12th in with early on the 13th for his driving around hints that there might be evidence regarding BK/his phone/his elantra/whatever in Moscow late on the 12th. JMO.

Wild speculation, but I think he was in Moscow late on the 12th, knew when they were all home (or heading home) and maybe saw an opportunity or otherwise made the decision about the time being right. He could have been back to Pullman by 2 or 2:15 (or earlier, depending on what he was doing) and still had a half hour (at least) to do whatever he needed to do and be where he was on campus by 2:45. Let's not forget the unaccounted for time between leaving Pullman and the first camera footage we know of just before 3:30 going west on Indian Hills and then Styner (and yes, I'm willing to assume for now these are all the same white elantra as the one in Pullman). I think when he went back to Pullman, he got some things, and then drove someplace remote somewhere east of Moscow to finish getting ready. IDK, he could have had other reasons he went east during that time gap. We have no way of knowing. Anyway, that's the picture I have now...

Agree. The apparently needless addtion of driving around late the on 12th was conspicuous, and a looks a lot like a liars technique of adding superfluous detail.

 

[m00c0w]

Agree. The apparently needless addtion of driving around late the on 12th was conspicuous, and a looks a lot like a liars technique of adding superfluous detail.

It may be a way to try and “impeach” the cell phone records. “Yeah, it says that, but I was out driving around… so it’s wrong. And can we really believe all of the datapoints with that in mind?”

I don’t think such an argument would be anywhere near successful.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

That is a really excellent question. Silly me didn't even realize places did this until this case, then I forgot all about it. Not to steal your thunder at all, but I googled restaurant webcams and food truck webcams today and wish I hadn't. Bar webcams came up too. Excellent - let's stream drunk people coming and going so criminals can watch them and pick out a victim. I even saw websites dedicated to listing all the places you can watch unsuspecting people dine live. Or you can apparently just google a city name and live webcams and individual locations will helpfully tell you places you can watch people who have no idea you are on the other end watching them. Deep dive away because I am totally creeped out and thinking LE should warn people about creeps potentially using this technology to pick out victims.

Yeah I'm thinking about the new crop of students. I don't know if I'd want to go and part of me thinks it's unethical but it's a public place. It's just something I've got to ponder a bunch before I have an opinion about, I suppose. It is unfortunately something folks should be aware of, and the rest of their surroundings too! JMOO

In retrospect, I would've thought GrubTruckers would have to close down or alter their business plans. But nope. Looks like they intend to keep on trucking with twitch live stream.

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

m.twitch.tv

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

That is a really excellent question. Silly me didn't even realize places did this until this case, then I forgot all about it. Not to steal your thunder at all, but I googled restaurant webcams and food truck webcams today and wish I hadn't. Bar webcams came up too. Excellent - let's stream drunk people coming and going so criminals can watch them and pick out a victim. I even saw websites dedicated to listing all the places you can watch unsuspecting people dine live. Or you can apparently just google a city name and live webcams and individual locations will helpfully tell you places you can watch people who have no idea you are on the other end watching them. Deep dive away because I am totally creeped out and thinking LE should warn people about creeps potentially using this technology to pick out victims.

I agree with your points, particularly awareness, but it's also fun to get a text from family or friends away from home letting you know they are dining at a place with livestreaming.

I'm old as the hills & twice as dusty and found the whole thing bizarro when first introduced to the concept, but I've grown to enjoy it in the years since being introduced to it by my dd. She was raised by me, LOL, so she has excellent SM security & practices.

AFAIK, the places that offer it have very obvious signage, at least in the US. So, if it offends one's sensibilities, one can choose to go elsewhere.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Yeah I'm thinking about the new crop of students. I don't know if I'd want to go and part of me thinks it's unethical but it's a public place. It's just something I've got to ponder a bunch before I have an opinion about, I suppose. It is unfortunately something folks should be aware of, and the rest of their surroundings too! JMOO

In retrospect, I would've thought GrubTruckers would have to close down or alter their business plans. But nope. Looks like they intend to keep on trucking with twitch live stream.

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

m.twitch.tv

TBF, the Grub Truck is very clearly marked that it does live-streaming.

Personally, I’m really glad the Grub Truck hasn’t had to change a single thing since the murders — the house was iconic before it became infamous, and I’m beyond grateful that the Grub Truck has been able to remain iconic. It’s long been & remains a really fun experience with yummy food.

MOO, of course!

 

[Chloegirl]

TBF, the Grub Truck is very clearly marked that it does live-streaming.

Personally, I’m really glad the Grub Truck hasn’t had to change a single thing since the murders — the house was iconic before it became infamous, and I’m beyond grateful that the Grub Truck has been able to remain iconic. It’s long been & remains a really fun experience with yummy food.

MOO, of course!

I get it. Definitely not trying to smack them down just curious about these types of things and the role they play. It might be rather reassuring for the families to see them. I would also assume anyone who didn't want to be filmed circled around the periphery and could have been lurking there so this provided information for the investigation.

Things to consider for sure. JMOO

 

[Balthazar]

Where is all this <information> information coming from about BK being at a library? It has never been stated where BK went except some female students saying he was staring at them on the U of I campus.

<modsnip>

There is no information about BK being at the library. I simply pointed out that due to the location of the library and hours until 2am Sun - Thur (and the fact WSU students are allowed to use the UofI library) it is just as reasonable to assume BK was at that library as it is to assume he was peeping at 1122 King Rd on the 12 nights the PCA indicates he was at 1122 King Rd prior to the murders. He might also have been at someone's apartment nearby, for all we know. We are just discussing the fact that he could have been literally anywhere nearby doing something else and not at 1122 King Rd at all.

 

[Boxer]

There is no information about BK being at the library. I simply pointed out that due to the location of the library and hours until 2am Sun - Thur (and the fact WSU students are allowed to use the UofI library) it is just as reasonable to assume BK was at that library as it is to assume he was peeping at 1122 King Rd on the 12 nights the PCA indicates he was at 1122 King Rd prior to the murders. He might also have been at someone's apartment nearby, for all we know. We are just discussing the fact that he could have been literally anywhere nearby doing something else and not at 1122 King Rd at all.

And just also happened to be out and about on the morning of 11/13 and thought fun to drive by the out of the way 1122 Kings Rd house in a neighborhood that can only be accessed by the single road Taylor.

 

[TL4S]

I suspect the information on BK's twelve previous times in the area was included in the PCA because on one of those previous times, BK got pulled over by LE. This establishes that BK was without question the driver of his white elantra and the user of his cell phone during the previous times in Moscow, during the late night and early morning hours, similar in timeframe as the murders, and as close in proximity to the King Rd house as the cell tower data tells them he was, whatever that distance is. JMO.

By itself, that's not probable cause for murder charges, IMO, but taking into consideration that on those twelve previous times, he didn't turn his cell phone off, then it starts to look suspicious that on the morning of the 13th, he did, right before leaving Pullman in the direction of Moscow, during the same general timeframe he was established to have frequently gone to Moscow, in a car that matched the one seen circling the house before and speeding away after the crime. It's a behavior that was out of the ordinary for him, apparently, which, by coincidence, also happened to be during the time of the murders. Then he turned it back on shortly after the murders.

Again, this is just one small feature in the PCA, which is not all inclusive, but I have a feeling it will come up later. That's not to mention the DNA and other evidence...

 

[10ofRods]

It may be a way to try and “impeach” the cell phone records. “Yeah, it says that, but I was out driving around… so it’s wrong. And can we really believe all of the datapoints with that in mind?”

I don’t think such an argument would be anywhere near successful.

JMO

Since for 80-90% of the time he was out driving around, his phone travelled with the car, I don't think the phone records are going to help him.

His phone was turned on and with him when he left the Steptoe Apartments. It was on and with him after he drove to Blaine (south of Moscow) and then chose a circuitous way back to Steptoe. It was on the next morning when he traveled back to the scene of the crime (and, I would wager, he was once again caught on some neighbors' cameras - we know he was caught on video at Albertson's and that LE thinks he made the same circuit south of Moscow - which goes by the Snake River - and that he pulled into a parking lot very near access to the Snake River - seen by an eyewitness but there could be video records of his car by now - his phone was certainly there.

Keep in mind that it's unlikely Kohberger himself will get to say anything about this, unless he takes the stand. Opening and closing arguments are not evidence and the jury will be instructed to only pay attention to the evidence.

A phone that's turned on leaves a GPS record, as well (even with location services turned off).

His phone was with him. It goes off and on, the car is then caught moving about (shall we say in "stealth" mode if he thinks he's not tracked, because he turned the phone off?) on camera during the time when the phone is off. Since the phone comes back on less than hour/about an hour after the car peels out from 1122 King and it's in Blaine (and remains on thereafter), it's safe to say the phone is an element of evidence; shows it was with the car; shows his movements that night.

Hard to impeach mechanical records like phone records. Also hard to impeach video.

So, I agree, this is going to be a difficult row for the Defense to hoe.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

And just also happened on the be out and about on the morning of 11/13 and thought fun to drive by the out of the way 1122 Kings Rd house in a neighborhood that can only be accessed by the single road Taylor.

Drove by twice! Once around the time of the killings, and then again in the morning, before LE arrived or the roommates dialed 911.

(I'm not counting the several loops near the house where he passed by a few times, I'm counting them as one set of visits).

He must have thought if "fun" to drive in that area twice in one day - I wonder if that was "usual" for him. Now that I've had some time to think, it's interesting that AT decided to allow him to admit to being out driving around during those hours - it's close to stipulating that he was in the area. She may have messed up a bit, in trying to explain the other 11-12 visits.

The State has so many really amazing on-ramps for this case - and Kohberger has admitted one of them and the evidence for the others is physical evidence (phone pings; handshakes; GPS; car on video - and DNA).

IMO.

 

[TL4S]

Drove by twice! Once around the time of the killings, and then again in the morning, before LE arrived or the roommates dialed 911.

(I'm not counting the several loops near the house where he passed by a few times, I'm counting them as one set of visits).

He must have thought if "fun" to drive in that area twice in one day - I wonder if that was "usual" for him. Now that I've had some time to think, it's interesting that AT decided to allow him to admit to being out driving around during those hours - it's close to stipulating that he was in the area. She may have messed up a bit, in trying to explain the other 11-12 visits.

The State has so many really amazing on-ramps for this case - and Kohberger has admitted one of them and the evidence for the others is physical evidence (phone pings; handshakes; GPS; car on video - and DNA).

IMO.

I appreciate you continuing to mention his return visit around 9am on the 13th. It's not brought up enough, imo, for how very suspicious it is. JMO.

 

[Lilibet]

Keep in mind that it's unlikely Kohberger himself will get to say anything about this, unless he takes the stand.

Do you think he has enough hubris to insist on taking the stand, even against the advice of his attorney? I’m inclined to think he might.
JMO

 

[wendy44]

There is no information about BK being at the library. I simply pointed out that due to the location of the library and hours until 2am Sun - Thur (and the fact WSU students are allowed to use the UofI library) it is just as reasonable to assume BK was at that library as it is to assume he was peeping at 1122 King Rd on the 12 nights the PCA indicates he was at 1122 King Rd prior to the murders. He might also have been at someone's apartment nearby, for all we know. We are just discussing the fact that he could have been literally anywhere nearby doing something else and not at 1122 King Rd at all.

In my opinion, given the evidence that his dna was on the sheath found in the house, it's actually much more reasonable to assume he was peeping at the house than at the library.

 

[Sjöberg]

The defence could try:
He was peeping at the house, sadly lost his knife sheath that was in his pocket and then a totally different criminal entered the scene that had a knife ready for the murder but sadly no sheath so on his way to the house this evil sheathless criminal found poor BK-s sheath and took it for his knife and being evil and clumsy also lost the sheath at a victim as he did not know how to fasten it properly.

Or they could try to just change the plea to guilty. IMO, it would be less of a hassle.

 

[Jurisprudence]

The U of I Moscow has a 4 story library with an online catalog of journals and the specific articles in them, but you cannot browse the articles online for many of the journals according to their website:

"The library subscribes to almost ten thousand periodicals in print and online. Content contained in these resources can be discovered in our online catalog as part of any search. The options below allow you to search and browse for specific journals and magazines (rather than individual articles)."

UofI Floor Maps show 1 floor of meeting rooms/social but the second floor is loaded with magazines and journals which you can lookup online but which would require an in-person visit to access. The third floor appears to be loaded with books which you can lookup on line but would have to go in to access and the 4th floor contains yet more hard resources like oversized books. Floor Maps

They also have access to the complete UofI library materials through inter-library loan - the largest library in Idaho, their collection includes more than 1 million books. Presumably a combination of hard resources and electronic.

I also doubt that certain other research would be online such as Dissertations - usually those are some resource that requires going in to the specific school's library. There is also a law library at UofI which is extensively hardcover. UofI has a law school where WSU does not(only an undergrad pre-law degree.)

Of course, his research could have been interdisciplinary - much like mine was.

No, this would not be his alibi for the murders at all. However, this would be a reasonable explaination as to why his phone pinged near 1122 King Rd 12 times prior to the murders. These are the library's hour during each semester:

Semester Hours​

August 20 - December 15, January 8 - May 10

Monday - Thursday	6:00am - 2:00am
Friday	6:00am - 8:00pm
Saturday	12:00pm - 6:00pm
Sunday	12:00pm - 2:00am

We don't know when those 12 nights he pinged were, but is it possible he pinged on nights when the library was open? Yes. There are actually many other possibilities. We will not know which is right until this goes to trial, though. JMO.

JMO.

Okay. He was not at the library. He has said under oath through his attorney that he was out driving around alone and this is why no one can vouch for him. Out driving alone. Not at a library across the border between the time he is stated to leave his apt at 2:45 am (by the pca) until 5-5:30ish in the morning - at school not even his own.

jmo

Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the killing of four University of Idaho students last November, claims he was out driving at the time of the stabbings, according to court filings, indicating the alibi he could rely on at trial.
“Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night,” his attorney, Anne Taylor, wrote in the filing. “He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022...
At this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment.” Taylor wrote..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/08/04/bryan-kohberger-idaho-alibi-driving/

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/080223-Objection-States-Motion-to-Compel-Motive-of-Defense-of-Alibi-Alternatively-to-Bar-Certain.pdf

 

[schooling]

I have a question about that. How common are situations like this, food trucks with this sort of hyper technology? Is this just a late night surveillance tactic or something more. I have meant to do a deep dive about it so if you have any information handy, TIA.

There was a live web cam outside of my favorite college pizza place back in 1999ish. At that time, because of technology and bandwidth limitations, it was more of a refresh rate than a frame rate. So you’d get a “live” picture from the webcam every 2 or 3 seconds.

 

[katydid23]

Since for 80-90% of the time he was out driving around, his phone travelled with the car, I don't think the phone records are going to help him.

His phone was turned on and with him when he left the Steptoe Apartments. It was on and with him after he drove to Blaine (south of Moscow) and then chose a circuitous way back to Steptoe. It was on the next morning when he traveled back to the scene of the crime (and, I would wager, he was once again caught on some neighbors' cameras - we know he was caught on video at Albertson's and that LE thinks he made the same circuit south of Moscow - which goes by the Snake River - and that he pulled into a parking lot very near access to the Snake River - seen by an eyewitness but there could be video records of his car by now - his phone was certainly there.

Keep in mind that it's unlikely Kohberger himself will get to say anything about this, unless he takes the stand. Opening and closing arguments are not evidence and the jury will be instructed to only pay attention to the evidence.

A phone that's turned on leaves a GPS record, as well (even with location services turned off).

His phone was with him. It goes off and on, the car is then caught moving about (shall we say in "stealth" mode if he thinks he's not tracked, because he turned the phone off?) on camera during the time when the phone is off. Since the phone comes back on less than hour/about an hour after the car peels out from 1122 King and it's in Blaine (and remains on thereafter), it's safe to say the phone is an element of evidence; shows it was with the car; shows his movements that night.

Hard to impeach mechanical records like phone records. Also hard to impeach video.

So, I agree, this is going to be a difficult row for the Defense to hoe.

IMO.

And reportedly, that video taken by Albertson's cctv, shows BK himself, in the drivers seat, and they will have records showing his cell phone was along for the ride.

IMO, this is evidence that the white Elantra with no front plate, and with the cell with that phone number inside, and seen at the crime scene, belonged to the defendant. And his alibi puts him right in that area, admittedly in his car alone.

 

[katydid23]

Okay. He was not at the library. He has said under oath through his attorney that he was out driving around alone and this is why no one can vouch for him. Out driving alone. Not at a library across the border between the time he is stated to leave his apt at 2:45 am (by the pca) until 5-5:30ish in the morning - at school not even his own.

jmo

Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the killing of four University of Idaho students last November, claims he was out driving at the time of the stabbings, according to court filings, indicating the alibi he could rely on at trial.
“Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night,” his attorney, Anne Taylor, wrote in the filing. “He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022...

I wonder what this^^^ is about---the late Nov 12th night time drive?

The PCA puts him leaving his Pullman apartment about 3 am. I wonder where he was earlier, say around 10pm to 12 am, as his attorney seems to say he was out for a late night drive at that time?

She seems to try and imply that he left before midnight that night of the 12th and just continued his late night solo drive well until the morning of the 13th.

But his cell records apparently tell a different story? He was home at 3 am, and for some reason took a drive to Moscow.

At this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment.” Taylor wrote..."

Not yet anyway.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/08/04/bryan-kohberger-idaho-alibi-driving/

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/080223-Objection-States-Motion-to-Compel-Motive-of-Defense-of-Alibi-Alternatively-to-Bar-Certain.pdf