4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90

[Balthazar]

YES^^^^The D-team, flooding the court w/ pre-trial motions about previous rules/laws, appears to be setting the stage for trying to establish new rules, the IGG (scientific evidence), GJ instructions, Cameras in courtroom.
What's left? The death penalty? Bail?
I expect Logsdon to argue this case doesn't have proof evident or presumption great for DP case.
Also expect JJJ to have same response, can't change the law, take It up with higher court, move on.

JMO

Do you WANT BK, if convicted, to have grounds for a mistrial or lots and lots of grounds for appeal?

Because, if the defense doesn't do all of this, that is exactly what would happen. Given, it is a lot of work upfront, but better now than later where it would be even more work and more expense for the taxpayers.JMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Couldn't agree more. They're trying to classify someone's actions (submitting DNA results to Othram or similar) as being an informant, when the person submitted without any knowledge of any specific crime.

It's an attempt to broaden the word "informant" to such a vast breadth that millions of people could suddenly become "informants" even though they had no knowledge of a crime, the criminal, or anything else in the case. Instead treating the core meaning of informant as "possessing knowledge and information about a crime," they want it to be "possessing DNA makes you an informant."

SO glad for this prompt and excellent decision from Judge Judge (who also seems very nice).

IMO.

Thank you for explaining this in words I can digest and comprehend. It's pretty terrifying to think one could be named as an incidental unwitting 'informant' and what the implications of that could be.

 

[gremlin444]

However, Jay Logsdon also filed the motion to dismiss the murder charges against Kohberger, citing grand jury bias, "inadmissible" and insufficient evidence and prosecutorial misconduct. There have not been hearings on any of these issues yet, insofar as I am aware.

Those were addressed in a closed to the public hearing Thursday morning before the grand jury instruction hearing that was open to the public. In fact, the morning hearing even ran later than expected and caused the afternoon session to start late.

"The arguments over claims of jury bias, prosecutorial misconduct and evidence were held in a closed hearing on Thursday because Idaho law keeps details about specific grand juries secret. The arguments about the legal standard used in the indictment were held in open court, however."

Idaho judge upholds indictment against man accused of fatally stabbing 4 college students

Bryan Kohberger is charged in connection with the deaths of four University of Idaho students.

www.kptv.com

 

[phcrider]

Excuse this new-to-the-case-questions, but has any link between Maddie and BK been established, suggested or hinted at? TIA

 

[Swansee]

@phcrider
An Instagram account that was claimed to be BK's "liked" several of MM's pics and tried to slide into the DM's to say hi.

Idaho student murders suspect Bryan Kohberger followed victims on Instagram, says family

Among the never-ending questions surrounding the murders of University of Idaho students Kaylee Goncalves, Madison "Maddie" Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin — was did they know their killer?

www.cbsnews.com

However, we have never seen any definitive confirmation that this was truly his account (lots of fake ones were created almost instantly after he was identified) and BK's lawyer stated that there was "no connection" between him and any of the victims.
The family genuinely believe this was BK's account, but on the other hand, BK's lawyer can't just throw out that kind of statement if it's totally untrue, so I personally am undecided on this particular aspect.
Obviously the truth will come out at trial when we get to see what was discovered through the subpoenas for all of their social media accounts.

 

[katydid23]

Do you WANT BK, if convicted, to have grounds for a mistrial or lots and lots of grounds for appeal?

Because, if the defense doesn't do all of this, that is exactly what would happen. Given, it is a lot of work upfront, but better now than later where it would be even more work and more expense for the taxpayers.JMO.

I would rather have him go to trial, have the jury reach their verdict and then he can appeal if necessary. JMO

 

[arielilane]

Video is 15 + minutes.

Inside look: Bryan Kohberger's public hearing - Spoiler Alert: Cameras are in

Bryan Kohberger’s public hearing over grand jury instructions revealed information about cameras in the courtroom.

www.courttv.com

10.27.2023

MOSCOW, Idaho (Court TV) — Bryan Kohberger ’s public hearing over a defense motion challenging the grand jury instruction given to jurors lasted about 45 minutes, but the judge did reveal critical information about whether cameras would be permitted in Kohberger’s quadruple murder trial.

 

[arielilane]

Logsdon seems to be very gung-ho about this issue and according to the media Logsdon indicated that he would take it to the State Supreme Court. However, Jay Logsdon also filed the motion to dismiss the murder charges against Kohberger, citing grand jury bias, "inadmissible" and insufficient evidence and prosecutorial misconduct. There have not been hearings on any of these issues yet, insofar as I am aware. If they file motions on these separate issues, then Logsdon is going to be quite busy for a while. JMO.

Agree. But, it does seem that it's reaching. Curious if this is a delay tactic and if he goes to higher court, will it delay trial proceedings? I suspect not only defense is behind this but BK too. He has nothing else to do while he is incarcerated, then to continue learning law and his rights, actively participating in his own defense. moo.

 

[arielilane]

Oh & He had them on both legs for maximum security

As #BryanKohberger stood to leave the courtroom, his suit pants were stuck on the leg restraints under his pants and I got a glimpse of how they restrain him without visible shackles- the braces looked like these photos:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717704580522291207

View attachment 456509

https://twitter.com/ChanleyCourtTV

For anyone who didn't watch the Court TV video or know about BK's latest apparel.

 

[katydid23]

YES^^^^The D-team, flooding the court w/ pre-trial motions about previous rules/laws, appears to be setting the stage for trying to establish new rules, the IGG (scientific evidence), GJ instructions, Cameras in courtroom.
What's left? The death penalty? Bail?
I expect Logsdon to argue this case doesn't have proof evident or presumption great for DP case.
Also expect JJJ to have same response, can't change the law, take It up with higher court, move on.

JMO

I disagree with his attack on the Grand Jury rules about Cause.

He is arguing it should require BARD---Beyond A Reasonable Doubt---to attain an indictment for trial.

Why go to trial if you already determined it Beyond A Reasonable Doubt?

And how is either team supposed to make it's case BEFORE the trial? The prosecution does not have all of the incoming data and test results and full witness depositions. Those things require time, money and resources.

We would be letting a lot of dangerous criminal walk away free if they changed the requirement for an indictment for trial to BARD. IMO

 

[Balthazar]

Agree. But, it does seem that it's reaching. Curious if this is a delay tactic and if he goes to higher court, will it delay trial proceedings? I suspect not only defense is behind this but BK too. He has nothing else to do while he is incarcerated, then to continue learning law and his rights, actively participating in his own defense. moo.

I wouldn't consider this a delay tactic. The defense has found something that really truly IS an issue and needs to be examined in depth. It would be completely unethical for the defense not to take this up with the State Supreme Court if they were not satisfied with the resolution in JJ's courtroom, which they were not.

All JMO.

 

[Balthazar]

I disagree with his attack on the Grand Jury rules about Cause.

He is arguing it should require BARD---Beyond A Reasonable Doubt---to attain an indictment for trial.

Why go to trial if you already determined it Beyond A Reasonable Doubt?

And how is either team supposed to make it's case BEFORE the trial? The prosecution does not have all of the incoming data and test results and full witness depositions. Those things require time, money and resources.

We would be letting a lot of dangerous criminal walk away free if they changed the requirement for an indictment for trial to BARD. IMO

He is not arguing this for no reason. Idaho State Law has set forth that it requires BARD, yet for over 100 years, only probably cause has been in the jury instructions. If the intention is to be law-abiding, then the only way to follow the law is to correct this situation.

Also, we don't know what other issues were discussed in that hearing because it was closed or if JJ ruled on any other issues.

All JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

He is not arguing this for no reason. Idaho State Law has set forth that it requires BARD, yet for over 100 years, only probably cause has been in the jury instructions. If the intention is to be law-abiding, then the only way to follow the law is to correct this situation.

Also, we don't know what other issues were discussed in that hearing because it was closed or if JJ ruled on any other issues.

All JMO.

BARD for trials and Probable Cause for Grand Jury indictments in Idaho.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agree. But, it does seem that it's reaching. Curious if this is a delay tactic and if he goes to higher court, will it delay trial proceedings? I suspect not only defense is behind this but BK too. He has nothing else to do while he is incarcerated, then to continue learning law and his rights, actively participating in his own defense. moo.

AT = killing time and making arguments. There really is no defense of her client IMO so she nothing else to do. It delays the trial and keeps BK sitting pretty in the local jail.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

AT = killing time and making arguments. There really is no defense of her client IMO so she nothing else to do. It delays the trial and keeps BK sitting pretty in the local jail.

MOO

True, but surely her client and she, herself, think this is a better strategy than actually going to trial and getting the death penalty.

To me, it seems clear she's got nothing that's factual, much less evidentiary, to save her client. He did it, she can't get into matters adjacent to his guilt and probably has never spoken to him about it or what he says actually happened. She sees the evidence, she's using the only tactics available (lawyerly ones).

I too think it's akin to "sitting pretty" to him, since he's used to it by now, and like some other inmates (quite a few, IME), prefers being alone. Just as college students fight hard to get a solo dorm room - he's finally got it. And they're giving him his dietary needs and being decent to him.

In Truman Capote's In Cold Blood, when one of the murderers is finally in custody, he is treated so humanely by LE. The lead officer's wife ends up having to live with one of the murderers immediately adjacent to her home - and she treats him like family. IME, jail employees treat people humanely, within the rules of their incarceration. Politely. Responding reasonably to request. This may be a situation that's not so terrible for BK.

IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Excuse this new-to-the-case-questions, but has any link between Maddie and BK been established, suggested or hinted at? TIA

Hi, as far as I'm aware after following this thread since the beginning, there has not yet been any verified information on this matter.

However, some people believe there had been an interaction on one of the girls' social media and also that there is a possibility BK had encountered or noticed the girls at the vegan pizza restaurant where they worked. JMO IIRC

 

[iamshadow21]

Hi, as far as I'm aware after following this thread since the beginning, there has not yet been any verified information on this matter.

However, some people believe there had been an interaction on one of the girls' social media and also that there is a possibility BK had encountered or noticed the girls at the vegan pizza restaurant where they worked. JMO IIRC

There was no vegan pizza restaurant. There was a restaurant called the Mad Greek which had a handful of vegan and vegetarian options on the menu. We have no indication BK ever went there.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There was no vegan pizza restaurant. There was a restaurant called the Mad Greek which had a handful of vegan and vegetarian options on the menu. We have no indication BK ever went there.

MOO

Ohhh my apologies, I thought it was an actual vegan pizza restaurant.

Oh well most places have vegan options so that's not really any kind of proof that BK would have used it. I'm vegan and definitely a place that's 100% vegan would attract the attention of a strict vegan like BK, especially if he didn't like the idea of animal products being prepared in the same kitchen etc.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[iamshadow21]

Ohhh my apologies, I thought it was an actual vegan pizza restaurant.

Oh well most places have vegan options so that's not really any kind of proof that BK would have used it. I'm vegan and definitely a place that's 100% vegan would attract the attention of a strict vegan like BK, especially if he didn't like the idea of animal products being prepared in the same kitchen etc.

Thanks for the clarification.

It came from a People article that was probably based on internet rumour. The manager of the restaurant came out very hard against the article, the words 'completely false' were in her statement against its claims. The manager's statement was reported a number of places, here is a link to one article.

Restaurant where two Idaho murders victims worked denies Bryan Kohberger rumours

Jackie Fischer, owner of the Mad Creek, slammed a report that claimed Mr Kohberger had eaten at the restaurant twice in the weeks leading up to the murders

www.the-independent.com

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

There was no vegan pizza restaurant. There was a restaurant called the Mad Greek which had a handful of vegan and vegetarian options on the menu. We have no indication BK ever went there.

MOO

Playing devil's advocate here a bit, we really have no indication that BK also didn't go there.

MOO