4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90

[al66pine]

Knife Sheath?

Does anyone recall whether the KA-BAR knife sheath recovered at scene was one of these two? Or another? TiA. A link would be great too.

“ITEM 1217S Full-size Brown Leather USMC Sheath. Fits KA-BARS with 7" blade...” sbm
KA-BAR: Full-size Brown Leather USMC Sheath

“ITEM 1250S Short Brown Leather USMC Sheath. Fits KA-BARS with 5 1/4" blade...” sbm

KA-BAR: Short Brown Leather USMC Sheath

Short Brown Leather USMC Sheath

www.kabar.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Knife Sheath?

Does anyone recall whether the KA-BAR knife sheath recovered at scene was one of these two? Or another? TiA. A link would be great too.

“ITEM 1217S Full-size Brown Leather USMC Sheath. Fits KA-BARS with 7" blade...” sbm
KA-BAR: Full-size Brown Leather USMC Sheath

“ITEM 1250S Short Brown Leather USMC Sheath. Fits KA-BARS with 5 1/4" blade...” sbm

KA-BAR: Short Brown Leather USMC Sheath

Short Brown Leather USMC Sheath

www.kabar.com

This most likely I think, plus easily available on Amazon. Longer blade fits the description, it is very common, it is a fixed blade, doesn't fold.

KA-BAR 1217S, Leather Sheath, USMC Logo, Fits Knife with 7" Blade, Brown​

Amazon.com

 

[whiterhino]

But in this case, the culprits did choose to go out of their way to somehow get an object from BK (with his DNA already on it) or to place his and only his DNA on the sheath.

Would the theory be that these people or person chose him randomly (not realizing that he coincidentally drives around at night) or did they already know of his night driving? Seems to me the second is more logical, but I'm open to either interpretation.

The person who got "set up" is just one person - I'd be very surprised if it's completely random, it's a lot of work to go to, setting someone up. If I'm getting this theory correctly, the real murderer came pre-prepared to set up BK. The killer must not be driving BK's Elantra, because BK says he was driving it himself.

Does the set-up theory include the real murderer already possessing an Elantra (so they choose BK for his car?)

If it was random, that's unusual and I can't think of any cases of that type. If, on the other hand, the real murderer had a true grudge against BK, it would make more sense. To me, anyway.

IMO.

Oh, I totally agree. Either the real murderer had a tremendous grudge against BK (and still does and is hiding somewhere feeling pleased with themselves - and BK must have no clue who it could be, which is weird) OR they went to a lot of trouble to frame him, which I find it spectacularly difficult to believe was just a random choice to cast suspicion away from themselves. And what was BK doing, that made his epithelial DNA so available to someone? In what context could it even have been collected and then placed into the snap? If it happened that way, this has to be quite the long term criminal, I'd think.

And clever to the point of Evil Genius, since they managed to keep their own DNA mostly off the sheath. The Defense really should demand some further (consumptive) testing of the rest of the sheath if they suspect this (but they haven't, so far as we know). Because the real killer would have had to have remained masked and gloved throughout this entire process. How the real killer could even find and know they had BK's DNA for this scheme is beyond me. It would be easier to say that some terrible person stole BK's knife (with sheath) while masked and gloved and did not know BK's DNA was lodged in the snap thereby accidentally implicating BK, rather than a set-up (to me). Both are hard to believe, though.

IMO.

RBBM

It's hard to believe that an unknown Evil Genius committed these murders and chose to plant an item containing someone elses DNA without intending to set that person up. Why not just take a piece of BKs hair (with follicle for good measure).

Evil Genius could have chosen not to leave anything behind at all, or left something without any DNA. But to somehow obtain an item of BKs which contained his DNA and then leave it behind... how is that not personal? (not asking you directly fwiw @10ofRods )

BK was set up by someone who wanted to kill the 4 friends for their own reasons?! Didn't intend for BK to be blamed, just left the sheath behind with his DNA. Whoops?? Soap opera storyline. Why would anyone who knew BK take something of his and leave it at the scene of a murder when they could have left nothing at all.

I do not know of any cases where a setup has occurred in a quadruple murder. Surely if that has ever happened, there would be a thread about it on WS!

 

[Cool Cats]

RBBM

It's hard to believe that an unknown Evil Genius committed these murders and chose to plant an item containing someone elses DNA without intending to set that person up. Why not just take a piece of BKs hair (with follicle for good measure).

Evil Genius could have chosen not to leave anything behind at all, or left something without any DNA. But to somehow obtain an item of BKs which contained his DNA and then leave it behind... how is that not personal? (not asking you directly fwiw @10ofRods )

BK was set up by someone who wanted to kill the 4 friends for their own reasons?! Didn't intend for BK to be blamed, just left the sheath behind with his DNA. Whoops?? Soap opera storyline. Why would anyone who knew BK take something of his and leave it at the scene of a murder when they could have left nothing at all.

I do not know of any cases where a setup has occurred in a quadruple murder. Surely if that has ever happened, there would be a thread about it on WS!

If BK was set up he would have an alibi for that night because he wasn't there, he didn't do it. BK would be likely somewhat cooperating with the prosecution/investigation through his attorney and there would be leads and Motions on it.

There are zero signs of any of this....2 Cents

 

[Deleted member 718]

@Observe_dont_Absorb
It's a classic: the dog that didn't bark in the night. Except this one did, but apparently, only at the exact time the murders were taking place, and then never made a sound again until the police arrived. Which is odd. I agree with you that I would have expected that dog to not remain silent afterwards for eight hours.
I would add to what you listed, that the dog would probably have been aware of the smell of blood in the house, much earlier and more intensely than the surviving roommates. Poor Murphy.

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1/20/23
Little Murphy wasn't even a year old. He turned one the next month.

Parents of slain Idaho student look for answers: 'Who are you?'

The parents of 21-year-old Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four slain University of Idaho students, are desperate for answers.

abc7chicago.com

Kaylee's mom said Murphy usually slept with Kaylee or Madison Mogen. Murphy didn't usually bark, but if locked in a room by the suspect, he'd likely bark, whine and scratch at the door, she said.

 

[whiterhino]

If BK was set up he would have an alibi for that night because he wasn't there, he didn't do it. BK would be likely somewhat cooperating with the prosecution/investigation through his attorney and there would be leads and Motions on it.

There are zero signs of any of this....2 Cents

For the record, I'm not playing Devils Advocate. I was discussing it in order to show the flaws within that theory.

Yes I believe this would have come up much earlier if BK had an alibi. That is why I asked, if he were in the area buying drugs that night as some have suggested, why was that not his alibi from the start? His life and freedom are on the line.

 

[Cool Cats]

For the record, I'm not playing Devils Advocate. I was discussing it in order to show the flaws within that theory.

Yes I believe this would have come up much earlier if BK had an alibi. That is why I asked, if he were in the area buying drugs that night as some have suggested, why was that not his alibi from the start? His life and freedom are on the line.

I should have said in my post that I agree with you, it is a good thought out post.

 

[DFWNF]

View this content on Instagram

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1/20/23
Little Murphy wasn't even a year old. He turned one the next month.

Parents of slain Idaho student look for answers: 'Who are you?'

The parents of 21-year-old Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four slain University of Idaho students, are desperate for answers.

abc7chicago.com

Kaylee's mom said Murphy usually slept with Kaylee or Madison Mogen. Murphy didn't usually bark, but if locked in a room by the suspect, he'd likely bark, whine and scratch at the door, she said.

Beautiful dog. he must Kaylee, and Madison, so much.

 

[schooling]

MOO I think he impulsively committed the crime that night.

Agree. I think he kept a bag at ready in his car trunk.

The confluence of his academic life falling apart and thanksgiving break pushed him to act that night.

I also think they are going to find other nights where his driving and cell phone behavior matched that of the night of the murders. Stalking. Getting closer and closer to acting.

And the defenses case will hinge on their innocent innocuous interpretation of it.

MOO

 

[DFWNF]

Beautiful dog. he must Kaylee, and Madison, so much.

Must miss them so much, sorry, somehow missed a word.

 

[katydid23]

I just "presume" for myself. I would love to know what others think - although reporting is scant.

Again - I am using deduction. If the door was wide open then X knew immediately that two people had been murdered. The "unconscious person" thing becomes more problematic and H's appearance has a different vibe (surely, if one knew that a murder had been committed and decided to reach out to a friend/acquaintance - they might mention it?)

I personally believe that the door was shut and that DM did not know immediately what lay behind the door. I think she called H. to get help opening the door. I can also believe that someone encountering such a scene would both close the door and their own mind for the first minutes (0-60) of the event.

Nothing in any MSM or LE document says *anything* about doors or door handles - not for the room doors, not for the sliders, nothing (and the Defense hasn't brought it up either). The only thing I can think of that would be "found" in this circumstance would be blood. DNA of all the housemates would be everywhere and show nothing.

I think it's really likely that BK was wearing gloves. He is wearing gloves at his own parents' house about a month later. He's not likely to leave DNA on doors, sliders, windows, etc at 1122 King. This was a VERY planned crime.

IMO. Total speculation above - but at this point, I think it's great to hear various viewpoints on how the data we have might be arrayed. Lots of room for more speculation.

And if I was the killer, leaving those 2 bodies in the bedroom, I'd close the door as I left.

He didn't know if there were any people around that might walk by anytime soon--better to close the door and give himself more time to get away from the crime scenes imo. JMO

 

[katydid23]

IMO if there's been any possibility of a 'set up' it could only truly have been perpetrated by LE themselves - which I AM NOT stating is something that has happened in any way whatsoever - but it would be the only possible explanation for anyone with the motivation and ability to do so.

Motivation would be we have to be seen to solve this horrific murder case and we have no clue who's done it. Fit up the nearest available strangely behaved bloke who luckily also drives around the area in the small hours. Clearly this is not the case as it's not credible and doesn't explain other issues. JMO

How would LE get his DNA to put on the sheath? That was sent to a lab and would not be something easily faked by a detective. It would take several people being deceitful in a coordinated way---each one willing to lose their licenses and be open to being arrested and jailed.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

@Observe_dont_Absorb
It's a classic: the dog that didn't bark in the night. Except this one did, but apparently, only at the exact time the murders were taking place, and then never made a sound again until the police arrived. Which is odd. I agree with you that I would have expected that dog to not remain silent afterwards for eight hours.
I would add to what you listed, that the dog would probably have been aware of the smell of blood in the house, much earlier and more intensely than the surviving roommates. Poor Murphy.

I agree with this and was going to mention the smell of blood and bodily fluids and other smells that sadly arise when someone has been violently slaughtered. It's quite a strong smell especially if the central heating or heating systems were on pumping out heat and the dog was only over the other side of the narrow corridor. I'm a bit baffled by this aspect.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Murphy had lived his entire life in a very busy college living environment, MOO.

MOO, he was well-adjusted to his real life environment.

Living in a college town, I’ve known many dogs who adjusted well to the kind of environment Murphy was living in.

I’ve also known dogs who didn’t adjust well, of course. They tend to wind up getting rehired or sadly wind up at our humane society.

LOL — in the early days, we all understandably wanted much more Murphy info! IIRC, he has his own IG that his dad posts pics to some here follow.

As always, all MOO & thanks for taking my brain to happy “Murphy after the heinous murders” memories. He’s very loved by thousands of fans.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Murphy was in any way mistreated or mal-adapted to life or isn't well cared for now.

In agreement with what you say, I would suggest he had got used to being with lots of people, probably hadn't spent more than a couple of hours on his own in his whole life. So, being locked alone for many hours in an upstairs room in a house where the usual noises have 'stopped', he can no longer hear familiar voices, and he's not being taken out for his usual toilet and food session, must have been very distressing indeed.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

How would LE get his DNA to put on the sheath? That was sent to a lab and would not be something easily faked by a detective. It would take several people being deceitful in a coordinated way---each one willing to lose their licenses and be open to being arrested and jailed.

Exactly it would have to be a 100% clean sheath that a group of corrupt people in collaboration would have to agree to plant the evidence on. For this reason I find it highly unlikely / almost impossible to have happened. But even less likely again is the idea that some gangsters or hit men or a sophisticated murderer 'planted' BK's DNA and for what reason or motivation?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Agree. I think he kept a bag at ready in his car trunk.

The confluence of his academic life falling apart and thanksgiving break pushed him to act that night.

I also think they are going to find other nights where his driving and cell phone behavior matched that of the night of the murders. Stalking. Getting closer and closer to acting.

And the defenses case will hinge on their innocent innocuous interpretation of it.

MOO

I agree with others that BK had probably taken up 'hot prowling'.

I'll bet there's other households / people within his 'out driving at night' range and areas who have felt that someone had entered their home or even they have seen odd things on their cctv cameras or such but nothing was stolen or moved. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

To Test or Not to Test?
Some posters noted that BK's def. attys have not requested (re)testing of DNA on knife sheath. Wondering what they know and how they know it.

A defendant's demand for evidentiary testing may backfire.
That happened in TN. when Kiser, a man convicted in 2003 of murdering a county deputy, requested testing on previously untested palm and fingerprints on the deputy's flashlight and patrol car door.
Unfortunately for Kiser, his 2015 bid for post conviction relief brought none: The prints were his.

New evidence supports Marlon Kiser's murder conviction | Chattanooga Times Free Press

In his quest for acquittal, convicted murderer Marlon Kiser seems to have inadvertently requested new evidence that points to his guilt.

www.timesfreepress.com

What they know and how they know it is the same way the prosecution knows it, from the Idaho State Lab's forensic testing of the DNA.

Funny how some people say the DNA sample isn't reliable when the defense doesn't dispute it and actually admits it is BK's DNA.

Yes people, they admit it, over and over again (not exact words)

"BK's DNA was planted on the knife"
"How did the genealogy lead to BK's DNA?"
"Can't use BK's DNA if it was obtained improperly "

These types of statements are alluding to the fact that the
Idaho State Lab's forensic testing of the DNA is correct.

They don't even dispute how correct it is. It is ......
5.37 Octillion times likely to be BK's DNA. TWENTY SEVEN ZEROS - 000000000000000000000000000

2 Cents

 

[Baby baby Jane]

View this content on Instagram

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1/20/23
Little Murphy wasn't even a year old. He turned one the next month.

Parents of slain Idaho student look for answers: 'Who are you?'

The parents of 21-year-old Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four slain University of Idaho students, are desperate for answers.

abc7chicago.com

Kaylee's mom said Murphy usually slept with Kaylee or Madison Mogen. Murphy didn't usually bark, but if locked in a room by the suspect, he'd likely bark, whine and scratch at the door, she said.

Fearful dogs often hide and remain hidden for extended periods of time, days. Murphy maybe initially barking scratching, but at a point Murphy would have smelled blood and probably heard silence or sensed fear and stayed still and quiet.

 

[Justice101]

Fearful dogs often hide and remain hidden for extended periods of time, days. Murphy maybe initially barking scratching, but at a point Murphy would have smelled blood and probably heard silence or sensed fear and stayed still and quiet.

Murphy looks like a small yappy dog.

Any sound that would be unusual (even in a college party house), he would probably bark at.

In the middle of the night when everything eventually gets quiet, to hear movements, wimpers and rough housing at 4am, I would suspect he would bark.

 

[whiterhino]

Murphy looks like a small yappy dog.

Any sound that would be unusual (even in a college party house), he would probably bark at.

In the middle of the night when everything eventually gets quiet, to hear movements, wimpers and rough housing at 4am, I would suspect he would bark.

Murphy looks like a very good dog and a sweetheart!

Since Murphy was so close to both M and K, I think being separated from them could have caused anxiety. Goldendoodles are a cross of retriever and poodle. Poodles tend to bark.

Even my cat scratches at the door if it's closed, he meows like something is wrong because we're very bonded. I hate this part of the case, hard not to cry.