4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Statement from attorney SG on behalf of the Goncalves family:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1735759787554410736

 

[Deleted member 718]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1735757247257456931

 

[Cool Cats]

Ethan's mother has indicated that seeing the house every day has been very difficult for his siblings and I believe one of their rooms faces the house where their brother was murdered.

All the families and the community are struggling and I believe this does need to be handled with compassion but I don't think it matters how the house is handled, somebody is going to be uhappy.

I know SG keeps suggesting that the there could me missed evidence but at this point, any new evidence that may be found would be considered contaminated because of the volume of people who have been in and out of the house. It has also been said that the house doesn't look like it did. Furniture has been removed, it has been said that portions of walls and floors could have possibly been removed as evidence and there may be an associated biohazzard risk for anyone entering the house.

Yes!

I don't get it - the problem with getting rid of this eye sore reminder - after what the lead prosecutor said:

Spokesman-Review and New York Times

Should a notorious crime scene be demolished before trial?

At the house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year, sheets of plywood cover the windows. A temporary fence surrounds the yard. Security guards, posted in a blue trailer, keep watch 24 hours a day.

www.spokesman.com

The county prosecutor, Bill Thompson, in a separate email, told the university that he also did not object because authorities did not think the home would be needed for trial. Some of the reasons Thompson gave:

1.) The home has been substantially altered from its condition at the time of the homicides.
2.) Removal of relevant property and furnishings.
3.) Removal of some structural items such as wallboard and flooring.
4.) The home has been subjected to extensive chemical application that creates a potential health hazard making a ‘jury view’ inappropriate.

(I personally wouldn't want to expose my lungs to this)

And the FBI is getting the crime scene information that the prosecution needs for trial, very adequately I think:

Trial 'delayed indefinitely' for Kohberger allows FBI to return to King Road house, crime scene

"King Road house is one of the most critical pieces of evidence," says Goncalves family. Although the house was examined initially, FBI investigators seek more.

www.ktvb.com

Due to the trial of the primary suspect, Bryan Kohberger, being "delayed indefinitely," the FBI is utilizing the extra time to gather more information on the scene of the crime.

Although details of the scene were taken at the time of the initial investigation, they will gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises.

As the one-year mark of the quadruple homicide nears, investigators return to the house on King Road in Moscow, Idaho, to gather additional evidence, images and measurements in order to "construct visual and audio exhibits and a physical model of the home," according to a news release from the University of Idaho.

The prosecution explained to the university that the timeframe initially allotted to investigators in an October trial to create visual displays and models of the home, was not enough - prompting the University of Idaho (owner of the King Road house) to grant the FBI access to the property for two days, Tuesday, Oct. 31, and Wednesday, Nov. 1.

 

[Boxer]

I agree, and with technology, a visual eye sore of the nightmare, which took place there is not needed as a reminder of what happened there or is it necessary to maintain the property. Also, it's most likely a tourist attraction?

I believe the State can make their case w/o the crime house.
moo

But what's the rush? Cost of security maybe, fraternity ghost prankers etc.

 

[ktm44]

Yes!

I don't get it - the problem with getting rid of this eye sore reminder - after what the lead prosecutor said:

Should a notorious crime scene be demolished before trial?

At the house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year, sheets of plywood cover the windows. A temporary fence surrounds the yard. Security guards, posted in a blue trailer, keep watch 24 hours a day.

www.spokesman.com

Kohberger’s defense lawyer, Anne Taylor, told campus officials in April that she had “no objection” to the plan, according to an email. The county prosecutor, Bill Thompson, told the university that he also did not object, because authorities did not think it would be needed for trial.

“The scene has been substantially altered from its condition at the time of the homicides including removal of relevant property and furnishings, removal of some structural items such as wallboard and flooring, and subjected to extensive chemical application creating a potential health hazard,” Thompson wrote in a separate email. “These are some of the reasons that we have concluded that a ‘jury view’ would not be appropriate.”

And the FBI is getting the crime scene information that the prosecution needs for trial, very adequately I think:

Trial 'delayed indefinitely' for Kohberger allows FBI to return to King Road house, crime scene

"King Road house is one of the most critical pieces of evidence," says Goncalves family. Although the house was examined initially, FBI investigators seek more.

www.ktvb.com

Due to the trial of the primary suspect, Bryan Kohberger, being "delayed indefinitely," the FBI is utilizing the extra time to gather more information on the scene of the crime.

Although details of the scene were taken at the time of the initial investigation, they will gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises.

As the one-year mark of the quadruple homicide nears, investigators return to the house on King Road in Moscow, Idaho, to gather additional evidence, images and measurements in order to "construct visual and audio exhibits and a physical model of the home," according to a news release from the University of Idaho.

The prosecution explained to the university that the timeframe initially allotted to investigators in an October trial to create visual displays and models of the home, was not enough - prompting the University of Idaho (owner of the King Road house) to grant the FBI access to the property for two days, Tuesday, Oct. 31, and Wednesday, Nov. 1.

I still see comments on SM about people making trips to go see the property, like it's a roadside attraction. That can't be healthy for Ethan's siblings, any of the victims friends and the community.

I know SG sees the home as an important part of his daughter's life but her and her friends memories deserves better another location for morbid curiosity seekers.

He also has a strong disrespect for LE and he expressed it often enough but I suspect if he's looking for that key piece of evidence he feels may have been missed, it is more likely to be with collected evidence than sitting in a partially gutted house.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree, and with technology, a visual eye sore of the nightmare, which took place there is not needed as a reminder of what happened there or is it necessary to maintain the property. Also, it's most likely a tourist attraction?

I believe the State can make their case w/o the crime house.
moo

Quote

Also, it's most likely a tourist attraction?

According to the article I just linked, yes, the house is a photo hotspot.

.....And yet, for a university trying to erase the remnants of a tragedy that cast a terrifying shadow over the past academic year, the house on a hillside near campus remains uncomfortably conspicuous – visible from nearby fraternity houses and sought out as a photo spot by true-crime aficionados from around the country.

 

[whiterhino]

I still see comments on SM about people making trips to go see the property, like it's a roadside attraction. That can't be healthy for Ethan's siblings, any of the victims friends and the community.

I know SG sees the home as an important part of his daughter's life but her and her friends memories deserves better another location for morbid curiosity seekers.

He also has a strong disrespect for LE and he expressed it often enough but I suspect if he's looking for that key piece of evidence he feels may have been missed, it is more likely to be with collected evidence than sitting in a partially gutted house.

It's understandable as to why the Goncalves family is not ready for the demolition. Then again, there are 3 other families that also have to live with the aftermath and they have been less vocal. Not to mention the reminder within the community as well as the negative attention is brings in. However, it still makes me feel uneasy for some reason, regardless of the evidence gathered, 3D imaging etc. I agree with the statement made that there is no trial date but the demolition is under way. One benefit to demolishing the house now would be to prevent future crime bloggers and Youtubers from making their own "documentaries" about what happened there. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I still see comments on SM about people making trips to go see the property, like it's a roadside attraction. That can't be healthy for Ethan's siblings, any of the victims friends and the community.

I know SG sees the home as an important part of his daughter's life but her and her friends memories deserves better another location for morbid curiosity seekers.

He also has a strong disrespect for LE and he expressed it often enough but I suspect if he's looking for that key piece of evidence he feels may have been missed, it is more likely to be with collected evidence than sitting in a partially gutted house.

I do think their attorney deliberately fans many flames ....

Shanon Gray, a lawyer representing the Goncalves family argued the university was rushing to demolish it because it wanted to leave the tragedy behind before fully dealing with it.

“It’s for the University of Idaho, trying to tell everybody to hurry up and forget this ever happened,” he said.

(From my previously linked article)

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I do think their attorney deliberately fans many flames ....

Shanon Gray, a lawyer representing the Goncalves family argued the university was rushing to demolish it because it wanted to leave the tragedy behind before fully dealing with it.

“It’s for the University of Idaho, trying to tell everybody to hurry up and forget this ever happened,” he said.

(From my previously linked article)

As a recent transplant, Shanon Gray knows nothing about the local UI community and how we never forget the kids who came here for college but didn’t make it home for any reason, MOO.

 

[DeDee]

I agree, and with technology, a visual eye sore of the nightmare, which took place there is not needed as a reminder of what happened there or is it necessary to maintain the property. Also, it's most likely a tourist attraction?

I believe the State can make their case w/o the crime house.
moo

There's fairly recent coverage of UoI 2023 football game parties in the neighborhood that indicate the seemingly carefree students skip right past the haunting 1122 House without missing a beat. The happy game day parties were happening all around the house. Biz as usual.
I don't mind admitting I despise the 1122 House. It is an unattractive, eyesore on a prominent hill. The beauty was found in the lively students who lived within the crazy placed walls. The beauty was pink boots in a window. Their beautiful personalities were found in the glow of the good vibes neon light, the door's golden wreath, the row of cars neatly parked in the drive, lights strung around the patio with the music thumping.

 

[Deleted member 718]

 

[schooling]

I'm sitting here burning the midnight oil on a side project before the holidays. John Douglas's Inside of the Mind of BTK was kicking around my Audible Library so I finally decided to give it a listen.

There's a small part in Chapter 11 that reminded me a lot of the King Road murders. The author describes how Rader used to use his words to disarm and control his victims. With the goal of convincing them that everything would be OK so that they cooperate. I know many of us have noticed that pattern already when hearing about BTK's crimes. But John Douglas specifically mentioning this as a tactic that BTK honed and utilized with forethought and malice really stuck out to me.

The King Street murderer (BK, no doubt, IMO) supposedly said - "It's OK, I'm going to help you." to a person that the PCA presumes to be Xana. I know that we've already discussed those words and some of us already assumed it was to make sure that the person it was directed at didn't scream....and obviously with BK's loose connection to BTK through his former professor (no, IMO I don't think BK ever communicated with BTK) and his Reddit survey we can't help but wonder if this was also a prepared and practiced tactic (IMO, it was)

But the part that really really get's me, and that I'll NEVER understand, is just how cool, calm, and calculated a both of these murderers (MOO) could be and how totally alien and perverse that mindset is to the typical human.

I think the alien part and the struggle to understand explains the fascination many of us have with true crime. The attempt to rationalize the seemingly irrational.

MOO.

<modsnip - off topic>

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to my non-Christmas friends, and Happy New Year.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm sitting here burning the midnight oil on a side project before the holidays. John Douglas's Inside of the Mind of BTK was kicking around my Audible Library so I finally decided to give it a listen.

There's a small part in Chapter 11 that reminded me a lot of the King Road murders. The author describes how Rader used to use his words to disarm and control his victims. With the goal of convincing them that everything would be OK so that they cooperate. I know many of us have noticed that pattern already when hearing about BTK's crimes. But John Douglas specifically mentioning this as a tactic that BTK honed and utilized with forethought and malice really stuck out to me.

The King Street murderer (BK, no doubt, IMO) supposedly said - "It's OK, I'm going to help you." to a person that the PCA presumes to be Xana. I know that we've already discussed those words and some of us already assumed it was to make sure that the person it was directed at didn't scream....and obviously with BK's loose connection to BTK through his former professor (no, IMO I don't think BK ever communicated with BTK) and his Reddit survey we can't help but wonder if this was also a prepared and practiced tactic (IMO, it was)

But the part that really really get's me, and that I'll NEVER understand, is just how cool, calm, and calculated a both of these murderers (MOO) could be and how totally alien and perverse that mindset is to the typical human.

I think the alien part and the struggle to understand explains the fascination many of us have with true crime. The attempt to rationalize the seemingly irrational.

MOO.

funny aside: i met someone today that hates commas and thinks they are a crutch. so in the new year, im going to start using less of them.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to my non-Christmas friends, and Happy New Year.

I think BTK may have been BK's idol in some ways. He randomly killed at will, flew under the radar of police and was only apprehended by his own stupidity for fame and credence. I think BK is like BTK in the sense of his perceived superiority and intelligence.

I watched a show yesterday about a father in the UK who killed 6 people in 7 minutes (stabbed them all to death each had several knife wounds). His wife, child, MIL, FIL, family friend and her daughter. People who insist BK couldn't have done it in the time frame LE suggested don't realize how a rage or hate fueled person's mind can operate on a 'mission' they have in their twisted mind very efficiently.
<modsnip - off topic>

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I'm sitting here burning the midnight oil on a side project before the holidays. John Douglas's Inside of the Mind of BTK was kicking around my Audible Library so I finally decided to give it a listen.

There's a small part in Chapter 11 that reminded me a lot of the King Road murders. The author describes how Rader used to use his words to disarm and control his victims. With the goal of convincing them that everything would be OK so that they cooperate.

Ooooh, that just gave me the chills, I remember seeing that in a documentary, where he used that cruel ploy. Wow---I do think BK studied up on BTK

I know many of us have noticed that pattern already when hearing about BTK's crimes. But John Douglas specifically mentioning this as a tactic that BTK honed and utilized with forethought and malice really stuck out to me.

Yes....

The King Street murderer (BK, no doubt, IMO) supposedly said - "It's OK, I'm going to help you." to a person that the PCA presumes to be Xana. I know that we've already discussed those words and some of us already assumed it was to make sure that the person it was directed at didn't scream....and obviously with BK's loose connection to BTK through his former professor (no, IMO I don't think BK ever communicated with BTK) and his Reddit survey we can't help but wonder if this was also a prepared and practiced tactic (IMO, it was)

I think that Reddit survey, if admitted into evidence, may be pretty persuasive and revealing in some ways.

But the part that really really get's me, and that I'll NEVER understand, is just how cool, calm, and calculated a both of these murderers (MOO) could be and how totally alien and perverse that mindset is to the typical human.

That's^^ an important point, imo, because people want to say that no one would enter a crowded home, alone, armed with only a knife. But the reality is, that there are stone cold killers who crave that exact situation.
<modsnip - off topic>

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to my non-Christmas friends, and Happy New Year.

Back Atcha!

​

 

[Chloegirl]

I'm sitting here burning the midnight oil on a side project before the holidays. John Douglas's Inside of the Mind of BTK was kicking around my Audible Library so I finally decided to give it a listen.

There's a small part in Chapter 11 that reminded me a lot of the King Road murders. The author describes how Rader used to use his words to disarm and control his victims. With the goal of convincing them that everything would be OK so that they cooperate. I know many of us have noticed that pattern already when hearing about BTK's crimes. But John Douglas specifically mentioning this as a tactic that BTK honed and utilized with forethought and malice really stuck out to me.

The King Street murderer (BK, no doubt, IMO) supposedly said - "It's OK, I'm going to help you." to a person that the PCA presumes to be Xana. I know that we've already discussed those words and some of us already assumed it was to make sure that the person it was directed at didn't scream....and obviously with BK's loose connection to BTK through his former professor (no, IMO I don't think BK ever communicated with BTK) and his Reddit survey we can't help but wonder if this was also a prepared and practiced tactic (IMO, it was)

That has me thinking about page 118 in the book they mentioned an underlined portion. I don't know if that's Chapter 11 but now I'm curious. JMOO

I am not comfortable incorporating it fully in here as an image, but have seen victim selecting reference on another website that claims that that text is from page 118 of that book. It discusses all that he would need to do would be drive around the area sufficiently to feel comfortable. For someone known to drive around in loops in this area, that is unsettling.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Idaho victim's dad: Why is evidence being 'destroyed' before trial date?

 

[Colorado303]

The Defense doesn't have everything it claims is evidence. I believe that Judge Judge could rule that the personal information of the IGG Kohberger is not discoverable (work product, something like using a phone book to find someone - and then requiring that the phone company turn over all its records regarding that page in the directory). If the rest of it is FBI stuff, I do wonder how that will go.

Okay, that's not a good analogy, and I do wonder what the other 9 discovery requests are for. If the Defense can keep thinking up this sort of "discovery" request, this is going to be one long road to trial.

Regardless of what happens with the IGG "evidence," I don't think it would remotely exonerate BK.

IMO.

IIRC in the Vallow case, the Defense filed umpteen Discovery Requests but many simply repeated requests made in earlier versions when the State still hadn’t complied. I assume the same holds true here so there’s not necessarily been requests for 10 different sets of info.

 

[arielilane]

Ethan's mother has indicated that seeing the house every day has been very difficult for his siblings and I believe one of their rooms faces the house where their brother was murdered.

All the families and the community are struggling and I believe this does need to be handled with compassion but I don't think it matters how the house is handled, somebody is going to be uhappy.

I know SG keeps suggesting that the there could me missed evidence but at this point, any new evidence that may be found would be considered contaminated because of the volume of people who have been in and out of the house. It has also been said that the house doesn't look like it did. Furniture has been removed, it has been said that portions of walls and floors could have possibly been removed as evidence and there may be an associated biohazzard risk for anyone entering the house.

If one of EC's siblings is able to view the house from their own place... all the more reason to demolish the house.

There are no winners, and (agree) not everyone will be happy.

Excellent point about contaminated evidence, no need to help the defense - and they will use and reach for anything possible to protect their client.

moo

 

[Boxer]

MOO BKs basic preparation for the crime of rape were adequate, minus the flat out error of the remaining DNA on the sheath snap.
Even then, the level of forensics applied to the case due to it being murder may not have been available to the MPD for the crime of rape.

 

[Chloegirl]

MOO BKs basic preparation for the crime of rape were adequate, minus the flat out error of the remaining DNA on the sheath snap.
Even then, the level of forensics applied to the case due to it being murder may not have been available to the MPD for the crime of rape.

Is that what you think was the original intention? No one has discussed this really everybody seems to skim right over that concept. Maybe I should not say everyone. But we go from there to the incel conversation and then linger on murder motive. Just trying to follow your post intention. JMOO