4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

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  • #481
SBM to focus on Thompsons email statement about the jury view

vs Faro Scan #2:

Genuinely curious
Will the second Faro Scan be admissable?
The FBI Faro scan was done on October 31, 2023 when the condition of the premesis were substantially different than at the time of the homicides. MOO
Just thinking if it is not good enough for an in person view, why would a scan of it be good enough for the jury to see?

JMO


The FBI does both, scans with furnishings and property in the rooms, then they need to have everything removed to get measurements and visuals of the rooms without anything in them.

Walls and flooring removed would likely be sections of evidence. Floor with blood and prints, walls with blood spatter, etc...

It’s also possible, Liscio said, investigators in the Moscow homicides scanned the home and cut out walls for evidence to bring back with them and analyze in a lab.
Agents will be at the home Tuesday and Wednesday “to gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises,” according to a news release from the university.
 
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  • #482
Sounds like BKs team really messed up by not keeping the house up then?

IMO the things that we do know…the DNA (puts him literally at the murder scene), cellular (places him in the vicinity time and time again) and vehicle CCTV (shows him heading towards the crime scene) evidence stands on its own, independent of any of those juror questions.

IMO The fact that the prosecutors (and the FBI considering their last second FARO) likely considered everything that you just said, and still felt like they didn’t need the house, speaks volumes to how strong their case is.

MOO
I hope you are right. I feel like it’s a slam dunk. but lately every time i feel like something is a slam dunk, I’m wrong.
 
  • #483
Investigators were still processing the scene a week later.

Here is one post on the media thread regarding Nov 20. Investigators were focusing on the backyard.



There are more posts on the media thread for this time period in the investigation where it states they were focusing on the outside : page 6.


JMO
Edit to fix link
Edit again to remove double link LOL
Right, but I think a big thing like a glove would have been noticed in the initial searches. They do spend weeks doing more forensic testing for footprints, DNA, small fibres etc. But I doubt the glove was there all that time.

There are probably crime scene photos that were taken in the initial investigations. JMO
 
  • #484
Video cut for brevity, it's in the post above.

These experts are sure saying some different things from what we've been discussing! I'm not a particularly good sleuther and my knowledge of criminal law is shaky, so I hear these arguments adn think "Good points. I didn't think of that." So I will leave the analysis and back-and-forth to others here on the forum who have more knowledge, understanding and experience.

MOO
They made GREAT points
 
  • #485
A juror would never be allowed to go into the house and measure anything or test any theories about sound or timing, etc. You'd not be able to test out what could be heard from upstairs, etc. Or test how long to get from here to there, etc.

That's the kind of thing the investigators and their hired experts do, and then they testify and set forth the results of those experiments. JMO
Not test, just get a feel for it by walking through. Spacial perception and sound perception IN a a space are completely different than imagining via a 3D rendering.

A persuasive attorney can make you believe things that are possible are not possible abd visa versa when it comes to that house and timing. So as a juror I would want to walk through the house simply because I wouldn’t want anyone TELLING me what was or wasn’t possible in those few minutes. That is going to be a big point. “He couldn’t have done this or that in that amount of time blah blah blah.” But if jurors would be able to walk the walk of the killer themselves then it would be a LOT easier for them to make up their minds without reasonable doubt. That’s the clincher - reasonable doubt. I’m worried about someone planting the seed “there had to have to have been someone helping him. He couldn’t have done it alone. He couldn’t have killed 4 people in that amount of time. Blah blah blah.”

Yeh most us of us here are like yeh right! But I’m telling you, leaving the house up and allowing the jurors a walk through would have made a huge difference.

I know they wouldn’t have been able to measure things or do anything other than walk through, but a saavy juror would have paid attention to sounds. For example I can hear my daughters giggling 2 bedrooms down but my door is open. Things like that. Maybe a juror would ask a question about where exactly the ring camera was in relation to Xana’s bedroom etc. they could ask questions pay attention to sounds of other people in other rooms. Imagine they were there that night. Isn’t the defense already planning on planting doubt with the whole Dylan thing….

I just think that it was really dumb to tear down the house before the completion of the trial. Dumb dumb dumb. Feelings be darned. We’ve got 4 dead kids. The community has been through hell. May as well keep the house up to make SURE you put the killer behind bars. Again JMO as someone who works with CADs. A LOT of people go completely blank with 3D renderings. That house is not an easy blueprint and we aren’t talking about 1 room and one dead person. We’ve got 4 dead people and there are MULTIPLE floors and points of entry.

In addition to the that, we’ve got the dog and 2 survivors (one who heard things saw the killer but didn’t think anything of it or check on her friends or notice blood coming out of the rooms so must not have gone to bathroom in the morning so didn’t report anything for hours and one who heard absolutely nothing) and 2 sets of stairs and it goes on and on and on. It’s complex. Very complex.

We think it’s easy. But the defense is going to be jerks with all this. This house would have been nice for the jurors to get some solid footing in their own minds to stand up to the BS
 
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  • #486
From Thompson's Dec. 22 email: "“Based on our review of Idaho case law, the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides that a ‘jury view’ would not be authorized...”
RSBM. I guess I don't understudy how BT can make this determination. Would it not be the judge's decision whether or not to authorize?
@TL4S Thanks for your response. Briefly, yes, it would be the trial court’s decision to rule on motion, that is, IF such a motion had been made.

Not so briefly.
Note Thompson's exact language: *
- "state-led team... anticipates no further use." Note state-led, not just Latah County staff.
- "Based on our review of Idaho case law... a ‘jury view’ would not be authorized." Okay, based upon their review.

I read a few ID appellate opinions** ruling that trial court's refusal to grant jury view motion was not reversible error, because ct determined the premises' condition at time of trial was substantially different from condition at time of crime.
What constitutes “substantially different” in those other cases? Without seeing those trial transcripts, various motions, briefs, or detailed discussion in appellate opinions describing the specific differences, IDK. Presumably, Thompson/staff dug in further. IDK if the state wanted a jury view. Possible, but even it if did, having in hand before & after still pix, videos, 3D & Faro etc, maybe the state decided against filing a motion thought to be futile.

I see Thompson's email as a bit "hedge-y" not weaselly. Some ppl reading it more closely or a second time might agree. Or not, & that's okay.

BTW FWIW111, email was not drafted as a doc. to be filed in court but as communication to the Uni. about an admin. matter. Likely drafter was aware that content would end up in MSM pre-trial so needed to steer clear of making stmts that would violate the non-dissemination order. So the email generalized about “substantially different” conditions and skipped the details.

^imo. Welcoming correction esp'ly from our legal professionals.

________________________________

i* “But Thompson… wrote in a Dec. 22 email to the university that the state-led team anticipates no further use of the home. " “Based on our review of Idaho case law, the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides that a ‘jury view’ would not be authorized,”” Thomspon wrote.” sbm
** State v. Myers, 10733
State v. Kleier, 69 Idaho 491, 495, 210 P.2d 388, 391
 
  • #487
They made GREAT points
The only new point made was the house should have stayed because of appeals. Get this, appealing on the grounds that the defense did Bryan wrong by not keeping the house just sitting there.

I think this is a really strange thing to say.

1.) The very long experienced prosecutors did not expect the judge to authorize a walk-through for many reasons.

2.) The defense agreed to the demolition.
3.) The defense was given an extra 6 months to gather evidence from the house.
4.) The house was kept up for a full year.
5.) The appeals process for a death sentence can go on for what? 10 years?
6.) Even with a life sentence the appeals would be years.
7.) The defense was never stopped from gathering evidence at the house.
8.) This is not a situation where the defense filed a Motion to keep the house but the judge denied the Motion.

9.) I have never heard of an appellate case having merit based on the fact that a jury did not walk through the crime scenes.

10.) The assumption is that viewing the house would be helpful to BK when in fact a walk-through could do the opposite - hurt his case.

11.) The house was altered from how it looked on November 13th 2022, thus giving the jury possible misinformation.

12.) Multiple chemical applications made the house into a health hazard.

13.) The trial judge did not order the house to be demolished.

2 Cents
 
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  • #488
Not test, just get a feel for it by walking through. Spacial perception and sound perception IN a a space are completely different than imagining via a 3D rendering.

A persuasive attorney can make you believe things that are possible are not possible abd visa versa when it comes to that house and timing. So as a juror I would want to walk through the house simply because I wouldn’t want anyone TELLING me what was or wasn’t possible in those few minutes. That is going to be a big point. “He couldn’t have done this or that in that amount of time blah blah blah.” But if jurors would be able to walk the walk of the killer themselves then it would be a LOT easier for them to make up their minds without reasonable doubt. That’s the clincher - reasonable doubt. I’m worried about someone planting the seed “there had to have to have been someone helping him. He couldn’t have done it alone. He couldn’t have killed 4 people in that amount of time. Blah blah blah.”

Yeh most us of us here are like yeh right! But I’m telling you, leaving the house up and allowing the jurors a walk through would have made a huge difference.

I know they wouldn’t have been able to measure things or do anything other than walk through, but a saavy juror would have paid attention to sounds. For example I can hear my daughters giggling 2 bedrooms down but my door is open. Things like that. Maybe a juror would ask a question about where exactly the ring camera was in relation to Xana’s bedroom etc. they could ask questions pay attention to sounds of other people in other rooms. Imagine they were there that night. Isn’t the defense already planning on planting doubt with the whole Dylan thing….

I just think that it was really dumb to tear down the house before the completion of the trial. Dumb dumb dumb. Feelings be darned. We’ve got 4 dead kids. The community has been through hell. May as well keep the house up to make SURE you put the killer behind bars. Again JMO as someone who works with CADs. A LOT of people go completely blank with 3D renderings. That house is not an easy blueprint and we aren’t talking about 1 room and one dead person. We’ve got 4 dead people and there are MULTIPLE floors and points of entry.

In addition to the that, we’ve got the dog and 2 survivors (one who heard things saw the killer but didn’t think anything of it or check on her friends or notice blood coming out of the rooms so must not have gone to bathroom in the morning so didn’t report anything for hours and one who heard absolutely nothing) and 2 sets of stairs and it goes on and on and on. It’s complex. Very complex.

We think it’s easy. But the defense is going to be jerks with all this. This house would have been nice for the jurors to get some solid footing in their own minds to stand up to the BS
Quote
"Maybe a juror would ask a question about where exactly the ring camera was in relation to Xana’s bedroom etc. they could ask questions"

No, the jury on a walk-through cannot ask questions and the defense and prosecution cannot narrate anything. Asking a question could cause the defense to file for a mistrial. The jurors stay quiet and just look at the rooms and they can't "test" how noise travels by creating noise themselves.


I think the most said would be from a neutral party telling jurors what rooms they are looking at........."This is the 2nd floor hallway" "This is the kitchen with sliding glass door" "This is the bedroom where M and K slept" "Murphy was found here" "DoorDash came to this door."
2 Cents

 
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  • #489
"Admissibility" of FBI's Oct 31. Faro Scans?
SBM to focus on Thompsons email statement about the jury view
vs Faro Scan #2:
Genuinely curious
Will the second Faro Scan be admissable?
The FBI Faro scan was done on October 31, 2023 when the condition of the premesis were substantially different than at the time of the homicides. MOO
Just thinking if it is not good enough for an in person view, why would a scan of it be good enough for the jury to see? JMO
@Nila Aella Thanks for your response.
From OP: "Genuinely curious
“Will the second Faro Scan be admissable?
“The FBI Faro scan was done on October 31, 2023"
Re-reading my post, I'm missing any suggestion that I postulated in that post about admissibility of FBI Oct. 31 Faro scan. Could have missed it. Anyone?

But now that Oct. 31. scan has been mentioned specitically in thread, okay, I''m thinking…
-Admissible as evd. for jury at trial to show conditions of premises at time of crime? IDK, but seems doubtful.
OP said: "if it is not good enough for an in person view, why would a scan of it be good enough for the jury to see?"
Again, my earlier post did not specifically address FBI's Oct 31 Faro scan, altho the linked article did.
- Used as exhibits in a brief, motion, or other doc. filed by a party, arguing that the conditions in Fall 2023, are substantially different than in mid Nov. 2022, so trial court should not order a jury view? Seems appropriate use of FBI’s Oct. 31 Faro scans.

Welcoming correction esp'ly by our legal professionals like you, @Nila Aella.
 
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  • #490
Google Maps & Seeing in Person?
That is a possibility, but seeing something in person to get a feeling of the layout of the area is something that is difficult to do from google maps. Going to the house in person would be much more useful for the planning aspect of the crime.

The dog is interesting in this case for that reason. We have to remember that two of the victims in this case were visiting at the time, Ethan Chapin and Kaylee Goncalves. If Kaylee brought her dog to visit and the dog had not been there during Kohberger's planning phase which probably did not start until August 2022, he might not have known about the dog. If he had known about the dog or saw it outside, he might have decided on a different house. I wonder if Kohberger was only expecting 4 people and not 6.

I think the reason the prosecution went ahead with the demolition is that they probably feel they have a good case against Bryan Kohberger, and it seems like they do. But if he is the killer, understanding why and how Kohberger did what he did is still important.
@somequestions TYVM for a good post. Here, a few thoughts about it.

From OP: "... get a feeling of the layout of the area is something that is difficult to do from google maps."
Agreeing. Hard to get good perspectives from google maps (& floor plans, esp'ly other 2D images).
But imo, the visual aids will likely be very sophisticated and give a good perspective to jurors.

imo.
 
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  • #491
Not test, just get a feel for it by walking through. Spacial perception and sound perception IN a a space are completely different than imagining via a 3D rendering.
Problem is, you cannot get the valid spacial or sound perception years after the original space was damaged, emptied, changed, and has no similar lighting or furnishings and has been partially torn up.
A persuasive attorney can make you believe things that are possible are not possible abd visa versa when it comes to that house and timing. So as a juror I would want to walk through the house simply because I wouldn’t want anyone TELLING me what was or wasn’t possible in those few minutes. That is going to be a big point. “He couldn’t have done this or that in that amount of time blah blah blah.” But if jurors would be able to walk the walk of the killer themselves then it would be a LOT easier for them to make up their minds without reasonable doubt. That’s the clincher - reasonable doubt. I’m worried about someone planting the seed “there had to have to have been someone helping him. He couldn’t have done it alone. He couldn’t have killed 4 people in that amount of time. Blah blah blah.”

But what if walking through an empty, dark, torn up space would make it look like it was harder than it was? The killer had night lights, neon signs and lights coming through from neighbours to help light his way.

The jurors would not be able to 'walk the walk' because some of the floorboards were torn out and some of the walls were torn open---and none of the furnishings were there. It would have looked so much different. It could have created doubt that might not have been there during the actual crime.
Yeh most us of us here are like yeh right! But I’m telling you, leaving the house up and allowing the jurors a walk through would have made a huge difference.
They would not see or hear anything that was similar to the crime scene though.
I know they wouldn’t have been able to measure things or do anything other than walk through, but a saavy juror would have paid attention to sounds. For example I can hear my daughters giggling 2 bedrooms down but my door is open. Things like that.

The jurors would not be able to hear anything like that. When you visit a crime scene you walk through together and silently.
Maybe a juror would ask a question about where exactly the ring camera was in relation to Xana’s bedroom etc. they could ask questions pay attention to sounds of other people in other rooms.
They are not allowed to do ask questions that would be considered making certain conclusions.
And there would not be any sounds of any people in the other rooms. You walk together in a group and cannot talk amongst yourselves.
Imagine they were there that night. Isn’t the defense already planning on planting doubt with the whole Dylan thing….
Probably---but having the jury tour an empty, torn up, building won't help prevent that seed of doubt growing.

If they went and saw it when it was furnished and lit up with night lights and neon signs on the entrance wall, they might have a better feeling of it.
I just think that it was really dumb to tear down the house before the completion of the trial. Dumb dumb dumb. Feelings be darned. We’ve got 4 dead kids. The community has been through hell. May as well keep the house up to make SURE you put the killer behind bars. Again JMO as someone who works with CADs. A LOT of people go completely blank with 3D renderings. That house is not an easy blueprint and we aren’t talking about 1 room and one dead person. We’ve got 4 dead people and there are MULTIPLE floors and points of entry.

The tour was not going to make that puzzle described above any easier. There would not be dead bodies on the floor or any exit signs.

But the trial will have exhibits which show all of those things in a 3-D model.
In addition to the that, we’ve got the dog and 2 survivors (one who heard things saw the killer but didn’t think anything of it or check on her friends or notice blood coming out of the rooms so must not have gone to bathroom in the morning so didn’t report anything for hours and one who heard absolutely nothing) and 2 sets of stairs and it goes on and on and on. It’s complex. Very complex.

the tour of the empty house would not help any of the above^^^^ controversy though. They will be no dog, no sounds in any of the other rooms, it would be daylight and not 4 am. It would be summer and not winter.

It would not answer any of the riddles you set forth above.
We think it’s easy. But the defense is going to be jerks with all this. This house would have been nice for the jurors to get some solid footing in their own minds to stand up to the BS
It would not have been a way to get any solid footing. The jurors would walk through, in a group, not be allowed to speak to each other about it. It would be the bailiff and likely the judge, leading the quiet tour of an empty, beat up unfurnished house.

It would not be at 4 am in the winter--it would be daylight in the summer. It would smell like chemicals and the floorboards and walls would be torn up in some areas.

None of the complex questions that are niggling at you could be answered by walking through that empty, torn up shell of a house. JMO


Whether or not to allow a jury to view the scene will always be up to the judge who is presiding over the jury trial. When a jury view of the scene is allowed by the judge in a case, the judge himself or herself need not be present during the view. In a case in which a jury view of a scene is allowed, the parties in a case as well as their respective attorneys are allowed to be present.

However, those parties and attorneys are not permitted to engage in any commentary whatsoever during the course of the view of a scene. In short, even if a party wanted to narrate the jury's walk through of a house, for example, that party would not be allowed to do so.
 
  • #492
SBM to focus on Thompsons email statement about the jury view

vs Faro Scan #2:

Genuinely curious
Will the second Faro Scan be admissable?
The FBI Faro scan was done on October 31, 2023 when the condition of the premesis were substantially different than at the time of the homicides. MOO
Just thinking if it is not good enough for an in person view, why would a scan of it be good enough for the jury to see?

JMO

I'm thinking the FBI Faro scan done on Oct 31st, 2023 was more of topography related one verses the inside of the house. The conditions of the landscape would have been similar to what it was when the actual crime occurred just a year ago.
IE., the condition of the leaves (or lack thereof) on the trees at the time, the area of where BK parked, any ground coverage that BK might have traveled, the sightline into the house from those locations.

I think it was wise to do if they had not done that during the original investigation and it was critical to do at the approx same timeframe as the murders took place.

JMO
 
  • #493
The FBI does both, scans with furnishings and property in the rooms, then they need to have everything removed to get measurements and visuals of the rooms without anything in them.

Walls and flooring removed would likely be sections of evidence. Floor with blood and prints, walls with blood spatter, etc...

It’s also possible, Liscio said, investigators in the Moscow homicides scanned the home and cut out walls for evidence to bring back with them and analyze in a lab.
Agents will be at the home Tuesday and Wednesday “to gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises,” according to a news release from the university.
Very interesting: Liscio mentioning the possibility of the scan being done to gather additional evidence to analyze.
MOO

I'm thinking the FBI Faro scan done on Oct 31st, 2023 was more of topography related one verses the inside of the house. The conditions of the landscape would have been similar to what it was when the actual crime occurred just a year ago.
IE., the condition of the leaves (or lack thereof) on the trees at the time, the area of where BK parked, any ground coverage that BK might have traveled, the sightline into the house from those locations.

I think it was wise to do if they had not done that during the original investigation and it was critical to do at the approx same timeframe as the murders took place.

JMO
I do recall the drone footage the first go round, but not the outside scans. JMO
I agree topography was a focus with the outside scanning in Oct 2023.

This is the quote from the U of I release:

“As explained to the university, the visual displays take months to build and were not feasible under the timeline of an October trial,” the release said. “While the measurements and details needed to build a model were taken at the time of the initial investigation, the FBI is using this extended trial timeline to gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises.”

Months to build, not months to scan. The measurements and details needed to build the model were taken at the time of the initial investigation. MOO


Investigators are returning to the home on King Road in Moscow, Idaho, to “get documentation to construct visual and audio exhibits and a physical model of the home” where four university students were killed.

Audio exhibits in an empty home? Or maybe they mean outside audio? Or maybe analyzing the audio for investigative purposes? MOO


Right, but I think a big thing like a glove would have been noticed in the initial searches. They do spend weeks doing more forensic testing for footprints, DNA, small fibres etc. But I doubt the glove was there all that time.

There are probably crime scene photos that were taken in the initial investigations. JMO
At one week and after one week, it was an still active crime scene.
The investigators thought it was important enough to collect and do a codis test on it.
Wonder what other tests were conducted on it?
We only know it was found outside, not where.
Just thinking how hard it is to see something in the woods amongst the leaves sometimes.
All JMO

Dog from photo thread

3 Unknown male DNA

JMO
 
  • #494
Very interesting: Liscio mentioning the possibility of the scan being done to gather additional evidence to analyze.
MOO


I do recall the drone footage the first go round, but not the outside scans. JMO
I agree topography was a focus with the outside scanning in Oct 2023.

This is the quote from the U of I release:

“As explained to the university, the visual displays take months to build and were not feasible under the timeline of an October trial,” the release said. “While the measurements and details needed to build a model were taken at the time of the initial investigation, the FBI is using this extended trial timeline to gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises.”

Months to build, not months to scan. The measurements and details needed to build the model were taken at the time of the initial investigation. MOO


Investigators are returning to the home on King Road in Moscow, Idaho, to “get documentation to construct visual and audio exhibits and a physical model of the home” where four university students were killed.

Audio exhibits in an empty home? Or maybe they mean outside audio? Or maybe analyzing the audio for investigative purposes? MOO



At one week and after one week, it was an still active crime scene.
The investigators thought it was important enough to collect and do a codis test on it.
Wonder what other tests were conducted on it?
We only know it was found outside, not where.
Just thinking how hard it is to see something in the woods amongst the leaves sometimes.
All JMO

Dog from photo thread

3 Unknown male DNA

JMO
IIRC Glove was found by YouTuber an ex police detective by Queen Rd.
This YouTuber is specifically not able to be used as a source on WS about the glove. See post #2 in

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84​

 
  • #495
"Admissibility" of FBI's Oct 31. Faro Scans?

@Nila Aella Thanks for your response.
From OP: "Genuinely curious
“Will the second Faro Scan be admissable?
“The FBI Faro scan was done on October 31, 2023"
Re-reading my post, I'm missing any suggestion that I postulated in that post about admissibility of FBI Oct. 31 Faro scan. Could have missed it. Anyone?

But now that Oct. 31. scan has been mentioned specitically in thread, okay, I''m thinking…
-Admissible as evd. for jury at trial to show conditions of premises at time of crime? IDK, but seems doubtful.
OP said: "if it is not good enough for an in person view, why would a scan of it be good enough for the jury to see?"
Again, my earlier post did not specifically address FBI's Oct 31 Faro scan, altho the linked article did.
- Used as exhibits in a brief, motion, or other doc. filed by a party, arguing that the conditions in Fall 2023, are substantially different than in mid Nov. 2022, so trial court should not order a jury view? Seems appropriate use of FBI’s Oct. 31 Faro scans.

Welcoming correction esp'ly by our legal professionals like you, @Nila Aella.
No you didn't mention it: The email statement you included from BThompson and BTs statement in the article you link previously made me think of my question about admissibility.

In the Previous article you linked:

“Based on our review of Idaho case law, the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides that a ‘jury view’ would not be authorized,” Thomspon wrote. “We appreciate the UI’s help in facilitating the investigators gathering the necessary measurements, etc., to enable creation of illustrative exhibits that should be admissible and helpful to the jury.”
BBM

From your post I replied to:

*“But Thompson… wrote in a Dec. 22 email to the university that the state-led team anticipates no further use of the home. " “Based on our review of Idaho case law, the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides that a ‘jury view’ would not be authorized,”” Thomspon wrote.” sbm

From my post:

SBM (snipped by me) to focus on Thompsons email statement about the jury view BBM

vs Faro Scan #2:
Genuinely curious
Will the second Faro Scan be admissable?
The FBI Faro scan was done on October 31, 2023 when the condition of the premesis were substantially different than at the time of the homicides. MOO


MOO JMO IMO

Just for clarity and new posters
IANAL. I do not work in the legal profession nor am I in a profession involved in any way with the legal profession or this case or any case. I love reading/learning about the laws and procedures of our Judicial system and enjoy reading/learning from all those who post here.
This is truth, not opinion.
 
  • #496
IIRC Glove was found by YouTuber an ex police detective by Queen Rd.
This YouTuber is specifically not able to be used as a source on WS about the glove. See post #2 in

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84​

Thanks Boxer, got it.
Discussing "unamed source" off limits.

Got a link for the glove you mention? ;)

The glove I am interested in was found 11/20 according to JL in his objection to motion for protective order:

By December l7, 2022,lab analysts were aware of two additional males’ DNA within the house where the deceased were located, and another unknown male DNA on glove found outside the residence on November 20, 2022. To this date, the Defense is unaware of what sort of testing, if any, was conducted on these samples other than the STR DNA profiles.


 
  • #497
Plea-for-Details Concept?

snipped for focus @Lalalacasbah
Grabbing the question from your post:
"How will we ever know they are telling the truth?"

Repeating from my earlier post*---
Plea-for-Details idea, when promoted ---> so those in behavorial science or mental health fields can "learn more." A post on another website asked -
What can be learned about criminal minds & behaviors, when a def't has no or limited incentive to be truthful?

IDK. Who is in a position to know, to verify the truth of what a murderer says about his own motivation, rationale, bases for behavior, etc?
(obvsly, prosecution has forensic evd. to refute claims def't's claims re digital, GPS, other kinds of data, etc.).

Still thinking about this.


*4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91
Ya it's interesting... I meant they can't always refute the forensics or proof if they have it. More the whole reason and motive question.

Everyone always wants to know "why" monsters are monsters? "Why" did they do it? Why why why? It seems some may tell the truth, some may tell a skewed version of the truth to make themselves seem not so bad, some may toy with those asking the questions, some may lie, some may create fiction! No way to really know I suppose but anything helps to find behavioural patterns.
 
  • #498
  • #499
The only new point made was the house should have stayed because of appeals. Get this, appealing on the grounds that the defense did Bryan wrong by not keeping the house just sitting there.

I think this is a really strange thing to say.

1.) The very long experienced prosecutors did not expect the judge to authorize a walk-through for many reasons.

2.) The defense agreed to the demolition.
3.) The defense was given an extra 6 months to gather evidence from the house.
4.) The house was kept up for a full year.
5.) The appeals process for a death sentence can go on for what? 10 years?
6.) Even with a life sentence the appeals would be years.
7.) The defense was never stopped from gathering evidence at the house.
8.) This is not a situation where the defense filed a Motion to keep the house but the judge denied the Motion.

9.) I have never heard of an appellate case having merit based on the fact that a jury did not walk through the crime scenes.

10.) The assumption is that viewing the house would be helpful to BK when in fact a walk-through could do the opposite - hurt his case.

11.) The house was altered from how it looked on November 13th 2022, thus giving the jury possible misinformation.

12.) Multiple chemical applications made the house into a health hazard.

13.) The trial judge did not order the house to be demolished.

2 Cents
Plus, it's not like they can magically resurrect the house at the new trial. So IMO an appeal decision hinging on the unfairness of the house being demolished would not even be a remedy for the reason for the appeal.

Especially in consideration of everything you mentioned above. The defense was not caught off guard and left unprepared. They signed off on it and are/have been preparing accordingly.

So if an appeal did go through (it won't, IMO) preparation and considerations for the new trial would be exactly the same. No house. With the exception of added hindsight for the defense from the first trial of course. IMO that sounds more like a 'do over' because you didn't like the results of the first trial rather than a reason for appeal.

MOO
 
Last edited:
  • #500
MOO crime scenes are not kept until trial.
 
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