4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[foreverlennon]

Oh definitely agree with you about no tunnels, I really didn't mean to reference that ( If anything, I wonder if such scans could be used to rule them out should that hypothesis come up at some point in court).
I was thinking perhaps, more along the lines of looking for a potential buried murder weapon or some other underground stash spot.

Was there a crawl space under the foundation of the house?

 

[twall]

Was there a crawl space under the foundation of the house?

No, it had a basement built into a hillside with one side exposed to the outside and the other side not exposed to the outside. If you look at the back you see 2 stories, if you look at the front you see 3 stories.

The house on King Road: A look at the Moscow home where four U of I students were killed - East Idaho News

(Idaho Statesman) — At 1122 King Road in Moscow sits a gray six-bedroom, three-bathroom house that continues to be the source of significant national attention. Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month...

www.eastidahonews.com

I live in the same type of house but without the 3rd floor. In my region my house is referred to as a ranch with a daylight or walk out basement as it has a door to the outside and windows on one side. From the front it looks small as you only see the second level as the basement is built into a hill. From the back it looks larger as you can see both levels.

 

[Boxer]

I think so too. When they see the layout of the house, and see exactly how somebody would have had to move around that house to do what was done, in the dark, it might really be striking how familiar the killer had to be. Then if there is enough persuasive digital evidence to put BK at or near, within observable range from the house at least a dozen times before, and maybe SM and other digital connection to the girls and house, as well, it could start to look like a rather well-worn path between BK and where his DNA ended up. Seeing the crime scene photos, the result of this inappropriate familiarity, could then feel like the horrible end to an uncomfortably long story. Just my own thoughts.

MOO The house wasn't really dark because of the two Good Times neon signs.

 

[Red Clover]

MOO The house wasn't really dark because of the two Good Times neon signs.

And Xana was up eating and on her phone

 

[TL4S]

MOO The house wasn't really dark because of the two Good Times neon signs.

True, and possible fairy lights on both levels, plus any other unknown lights that might have been turned on at some point. We really don't know. I've never suspected BK had a headlamp or anything like that because I believe he was familiar enough with that house to know how much light there would normally be. Jmo. My thought is just that what will be presented to a jury is likely to show a familiarity with the girls and the house.

 

[girlhasnoname]

And Xana was up eating and on her phone

Right, do you think Xana was laying in bed eating and on her phone at 4:12 am, or sitting in the kitchen or LR? I know she was found in her BR, but maybe she ran in there after seeing BK at some point. Maybe that is when DM heard the crying and the "I'm here to help you"? I tend to think she sitting in her bed watching TikTok while Ethan was asleep.

I think the DD driver is going to be a key witness in either having seen BK's car or maybe even catching a glimpse of him driving past. I surely hope so.

jmo

 

[Megnut]

Do we know if X interacted directly with the DD delivery person? Or was it contact free? Just wondering what time we can place her at the door, on the staircase, in the kitchen, in her room, potentially back in the kitchen or hallway....

D said she heard K say someone was there -- LE ascribed to X, but what if K really did say it? What if both X and K were awake and moving around? We don't know what event first awakened D. Maybe K took Murphy out a second time, maybe K saw the headlights from DD... what was the tone of "there's someone t/here"? Observation? Warning? Informative? Alarming?

Maybe she put Murphy in her room, went back into M's room and told M, half asleep, "there's someone here"... mere minutes before BK slipped in through the back door....

On his way out, that's when I think he physically encountered X. If she were in her room, like D, I don't think he would've reacted...

If he'd been aware of D, I think she'd have been eliminated too. Leave no witnesses....

From a crime scene standpoint, if K had not been there that weekend, nor Murphy, and both D and X and therefore E had all been deep asleep, IMO there would have been one murder (and/or one SA). Likely no melee, no forgotten sheath, just a nondescript white car on cctv circling the area....

IMO K's presence threw him off, created a frenzy he hasn't prepared for, caused his recklessness with the sheath, ultimately leaving his DNA signature behind. K lost her life but insodoing pointed LE at her beloved M's murderer.

Post humusly she should get whatever reward money there is. True crime girl, she cracked the case. With her life.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

Do we know if X interacted directly with the DD delivery person? Or was it contact free? Just wondering what time we can place her at the door, on the staircase, in the kitchen, in her room, potentially back in the kitchen or hallway....

D said she heard K say someone was there -- LE ascribed to X, but what if K really did say it? What if both X and K were awake and moving around? We don't know what event first awakened D. Maybe K took Murphy out a second time, maybe K saw the headlights from DD... what was the tone of "there's someone t/here"? Observation? Warning? Informative? Alarming?

Maybe she put Murphy in her room, went back into M's room and told M, half asleep, "there's someone here"... mere minutes before BK slipped in through the back door....

On his way out, that's when I think he physically encountered X. If she were in her room, like D, I don't think he would've reacted...

If he'd been aware of D, I think she'd have been eliminated too. Leave no witnesses....

From a crime scene standpoint, if K had not been there that weekend, nor Murphy, and both D and X and therefore E had all been deep asleep, IMO there would have been one murder (and/or one SA). Likely no melee, no forgotten sheath, just a nondescript white car on cctv circling the area....

IMO K's presence through him off, created a frenzy he hasn't prepared for, caused his recklessness with the sheath, ultimately leaving his DNA signature behind. K lost her life but insisting pointed LE at he believed M's murderer.

Post humusly she should get whatever reward money there is. True crime girl, she cracked the case. With her life.

JMO

I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I picture the horrible events of that morning, I see him as The Terminator with a knife. Just there to eliminate, no feeling, taking out whatever life necessary to complete his mission.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I picture the horrible events of that morning, I see him as The Terminator with a knife. Just there to eliminate, no feeling, taking out whatever life necessary to complete his mission.

Not ridiculous at all to me, BK appears like a non feeling, no emotion killing machine at that moment. He did a tremendous amount of carnage is a short amount of time. Kill, move on, kill, move on, etc.

MOO

 

[Red Clover]

Right, do you think Xana was laying in bed eating and on her phone at 4:12 am, or sitting in the kitchen or LR? I know she was found in her BR, but maybe she ran in there after seeing BK at some point. Maybe that is when DM heard the crying and the "I'm here to help you"? I tend to think she sitting in her bed watching TikTok while Ethan was asleep.

I think the DD driver is going to be a key witness in either having seen BK's car or maybe even catching a glimpse of him driving past. I surely hope so.

jmo

ALL MY OPINIONS ONLY
I think Xana was downstairs accepting her DD order right around 4:00 am, then came up the stairs to the 2nd floor and her bedroom.

I think she probably ate in her room only because BK snuck in that slider door in the minutes after she got her food.

Do we know that Ethan didn't eat too? Do we know Ethan was sleeping while Xana ate?

I think Xana probably finished her food and had put the bag in the kitchen and was back in her room on her bed scrolling when she heard something upstairs.

Could she have woken Ethan and said "I think someone's here"?
I am not sure what time that was said. Maybe Ethan got up and stuck his neck out of the room trying to ascertain what was happening.

DM said she opened her door more than once to peek out. Maybe Ethan did the same but BK saw/heard him/them as he was coming back downstairs to the 2nd floor and came towards Xana's room saying he was there "to help them"

Maybe this is what BK was focused on so he didn't even notice DM.

We don't know if either Ethan or Xana said something to BK before he harmed them. They could have been startled by this unknown person's presence and said something quietly, like "What are you doing here?" "Who are you?" "Why are you here, it's 4:00 am" or "Who are you visiting?"

Alternately-
Xana could have seen or heard BK coming in through the slider into the kitchen and heading upstairs when she was coming upstairs from getting her DD order and said "I think there's someone here" loudly enough for both DM & Ethan to hear alerting Ethan.

Maybe they decided it wasn't a big deal after seeing him and Xana finished eating her food but they were still keeping an eye/ear out when he came back down after murdering MM & KG.

I don't think Xana was sitting in the LR or in the kitchen eating, only because BK entered and exited through the 2nd floor's communal living spaces twice in less than 20 minutes. In that case I think the battle would have been in the LR or kitchen rather than Xana's bedroom.

I think BK came to XK & Ethan's room just like he went to where MM/KG were sleeping.

I am also of the mind that BK had been stalking the house and MM & KG specifically, and I think when he was in the neighborhood, he would drive to the elevated lot behind the house so he could see into MM & KG's rooms (when KG lived there) AND that BK was aware, from their social media, of their movements and activities, including that night they were seen on the public live video at the food truck before going home.

That's my take at this point in time based on what is publicly reported information and what I have gleaned here on WS.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I picture the horrible events of that morning, I see him as The Terminator with a knife. Just there to eliminate, no feeling, taking out whatever life necessary to complete his mission.

Not ridiculous at all to me, BK appears like a non feeling, no emotion killing machine at that moment. He did a tremendous amount of carnage is a short amount of time. Kill, move on, kill, move on, etc.

MOO

I agree with the nonfeeling part. Although he probably felt very powerful with the planning and preparing, especially as he was looping ...

I don't think he planned for a killing spree however, or he'd have secured the sheath better.

Then again, he'd apparently done a thorough wipedown of the sheath (except for the clasp) so maybe leaving it behind was of no concern to him.

I think What He Planned to do and What He Did divurged sharply. IMO he did not expect another person in M's bed and he was forced to react and improvise. Sloppy. A lesser knife might've snapped...

The scene in there had to be crazed. Worse in X's. By then, he was a killing machine, killing anything in the way of whatever his mission was.

LWOP won't be justice enough.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

ALL MY OPINIONS ONLY
I think Xana was downstairs accepting her DD order right around 4:00 am, then came up the stairs to the 2nd floor and her bedroom.

I think she probably ate in her room only because BK snuck in that slider door in the minutes after she got her food.

Do we know that Ethan didn't eat too? Do we know Ethan was sleeping while Xana ate?

I think Xana probably finished her food and had put the bag in the kitchen and was back in her room on her bed scrolling when she heard something upstairs.

Could she have woken Ethan and said "I think someone's here"?
I am not sure what time that was said. Maybe Ethan got up and stuck his neck out of the room trying to ascertain what was happening.

DM said she opened her door more than once to peek out. Maybe Ethan did the same but BK saw him/them as he was coming back downstairs to the 2nd floor and came towards Xana's room saying he was there "to help them"

Maybe this is what BK was focused on so he didn't even notice DM.

We don't know if either Ethan or Xana said something to BK before he harmed them. They could have been startled by this unknown person's presence and said something quietly, like "What are you doing here?" "Who are you?" "Why are you here, it's 4:00 am" or "Who are you visiting?"

Alternately-
Xana could have seen or heard BK coming in through the slider into the kitchen and heading upstairs when she was coming upstairs from getting her DD order and said "I think there's someone here" loudly enough for both DM & Ethan to hear alerting Ethan.

Maybe they decided it wasn't a big deal after seeing him and Xana finished eating her food but they were still keeping an eye/ear out when he came back down after murdering MM & KG.

I don't think Xana was sitting in the LR or in the kitchen eating, only because BK entered and exited through the 2nd floor's communal living spaces twice in less than 20 minutes. In that case I think the battle would have been in the LR or kitchen rather than Xana's bedroom.

I think BK came to XK & Ethan's room just like he went to where MM/KG we're sleeping.

I am also of the mind that BK had been stalking the house and MM & KG specifically, and I think when he was in the neighborhood, he would drive to the elevated lot behind the house so he could see into MM & KG's rooms (when KG lived there) AND that BK was aware, from their social media, of their movements and activities, including that night they were seen on the public live video at the food truck before going home.

That's my take at this point in time based on what is publicly reported information and what I have gleaned here on WS.

JMO

I don't think BK entered the house until the lights were off and he thought everyone was in bed. JMO. I've also often thought he might have come in through the slider and left it open for an easy, non-touch exit.

While he was upstairs, perhaps X went into the kitchen and saw the slider was open, and that's when she went back to her room to tell E that "there's somebody here." Maybe she even turned on the lights in the kitchen. That extra light would have also illuminated BK when he walked towards DM.

During the scuffling upstairs, DM reportedly yelled up for people to be quiet, and maybe the kitchen light had been turned on. Either way, by the time BK was coming down the stairs, he knew others in the house were up. He chose to go down the stairs regardless, rather than flee out the balcony, etc. That's scary to me.

 

[TL4S]

I agree with the nonfeeling part. Although he probably felt very powerful with the planning and preparing, especially as he was looping ...

I don't think he planned for a killing spree however, or he'd have secured the sheath better.

Then again, he'd apparently done a thorough wipedown of the sheath (except for the clasp) so maybe leaving it behind was of no concern to him.

I think What He Planned to do and What He Did divurged sharply. IMO he did not expect another person in M's bed and he was forced to react and improvise. Sloppy. A lesser knife might've snapped...

The scene in there had to be crazed. Worse in X's. By then, he was a killing machine, killing anything in the way of whatever his mission was.

LWOP won't be justice enough.

JMO

Yeah, I bet as his plan started to unravel, he got pissed. Like a, "look what you idiots are making me have to do" type thought process.

 

[Red Clover]

I don't think BK entered the house until the lights were off and he thought everyone was in bed. JMO. I've also often thought he might have come in through the slider and left it open for an easy, non-touch exit.

While he was upstairs, perhaps X went into the kitchen and saw the slider was open, and that's when she went back to her room to tell E that "there's somebody here." Maybe she even turned on the lights in the kitchen. That extra light would have also illuminated BK when he walked towards DM.

During the scuffling upstairs, DM reportedly yelled up for people to be quiet, and maybe the kitchen light had been turned on. Either way, by the time BK was coming down the stairs, he knew others in the house were up. He chose to go down the stairs regardless, rather than flee out the balcony, etc. That's scary to me.

Totally possible and the whole scenario is terrifying. I can't even fathom what the young people living there must have experienced.

IMO-- I think all the lights were off except for the neon lights and phones.

IF BK was adept at prowling at night then it might've been easier for him to see with the ambient lighting available, especially because he has that vision issue.

[IME-- When I am camping, sometimes it's easier for me to see my way on a path without a flashlight (unless it's pitch black)
I still need a flashlight once I get inside a porta-potty or something like that but my eyes will adjust to the naturally available low light at night.]

IMO-- BK had to know people were still up as X was accepting a DD delivery right around the time BK arrived at 1122. There would have been movement and sound in the house even if there was little to no light.

I guess it's possible BK JUST MISSED the DD delivery driver.

BUT-- IF BK WAS aware of the DD delivery driver it's possible that's why BK drove by a couple times and did the odd turnaround before parking a few minutes after 4:00 am.

ALL JMO

 

[TL4S]

Totally possible and the whole scenario is terrifying. I can't even fathom what the young people living there must have experienced.

IMO-- I think all the lights were off except for the neon lights and phones.

IF BK was adept at prowling at night then it might've been easier for him to see with the ambient lighting available, especially because he has that vision issue.

[IME-- When I am camping, sometimes it's easier for me to see my way on a path without a flashlight (unless it's pitch black)
I still need a flashlight once I get inside a porta-potty or something like that but my eyes will adjust to the naturally available low light at night.]

IMO-- BK had to know people were still up as X was accepting a DD delivery right around the time BK arrived at 1122. There would have been movement and sound in the house even if there was little to no light.

I guess it's possible BK JUST MISSED the DD delivery driver.

BUT-- IF BK WAS aware of the DD delivery driver it's possible that's why BK drove by a couple times and did the odd turnaround before parking a few minutes after 4:00 am.

ALL JMO

I agree, he wanted lights off. I think that was always his plan, and he wasn't going to enter the house until it was dark. I don't know if he saw the DD delivery, but I bet lights were on until after that happened, so his circling from 3:29 am on looks to me like someone who was watching and waiting for everyone to go night-night. By 4:04am, BK seemed to be parking, although we don't know how long he waited before entering the house. I get the sense he was getting impatient, though, because he had already circled the area for over half an hour. He should have waited until the lights were off longer, but maybe his plan was already starting to unravel. IDK. Just total guessing today...

 

[iamshadow21]

True, and possible fairy lights on both levels, plus any other unknown lights that might have been turned on at some point. We really don't know. I've never suspected BK had a headlamp or anything like that because I believe he was familiar enough with that house to know how much light there would normally be. Jmo. My thought is just that what will be presented to a jury is likely to show a familiarity with the girls and the house.

If he'd had a headlamp, D wouldn't have been able to see his features, just the light, because they point outwards.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

If he'd had a headlamp, D wouldn't have been able to see his features, just the light, because they point outwards.

MOO

Yes, and although he could have had it off at that point, I don't think he had one to begin with. He didn't need one, IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

ALL MY OPINIONS ONLY
I think Xana was downstairs accepting her DD order right around 4:00 am, then came up the stairs to the 2nd floor and her bedroom.

I think she probably ate in her room only because BK snuck in that slider door in the minutes after she got her food.

Do we know that Ethan didn't eat too? Do we know Ethan was sleeping while Xana ate?

I think Xana probably finished her food and had put the bag in the kitchen and was back in her room on her bed scrolling when she heard something upstairs.

Could she have woken Ethan and said "I think someone's here"?
I am not sure what time that was said. Maybe Ethan got up and stuck his neck out of the room trying to ascertain what was happening.

DM said she opened her door more than once to peek out. Maybe Ethan did the same but BK saw him/them as he was coming back downstairs to the 2nd floor and came towards Xana's room saying he was there "to help them"

Maybe this is what BK was focused on so he didn't even notice DM.

We don't know if either Ethan or Xana said something to BK before he harmed them. They could have been startled by this unknown person's presence and said something quietly, like "What are you doing here?" "Who are you?" "Why are you here, it's 4:00 am" or "Who are you visiting?"

Alternately-
Xana could have seen or heard BK coming in through the slider into the kitchen and heading upstairs when she was coming upstairs from getting her DD order and said "I think there's someone here" loudly enough for both DM & Ethan to hear alerting Ethan.

Maybe they decided it wasn't a big deal after seeing him and Xana finished eating her food but they were still keeping an eye/ear out when he came back down after murdering MM & KG.

I don't think Xana was sitting in the LR or in the kitchen eating, only because BK entered and exited through the 2nd floor's communal living spaces twice in less than 20 minutes. In that case I think the battle would have been in the LR or kitchen rather than Xana's bedroom.

I think BK came to XK & Ethan's room just like he went to where MM/KG were sleeping.

I am also of the mind that BK had been stalking the house and MM & KG specifically, and I think when he was in the neighborhood, he would drive to the elevated lot behind the house so he could see into MM & KG's rooms (when KG lived there) AND that BK was aware, from their social media, of their movements and activities, including that night they were seen on the public live video at the food truck before going home.

That's my take at this point in time based on what is publicly reported information and what I have gleaned here on WS.

JMO

All very logical and probable IMO. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes, and although he could have had it off at that point, I don't think he had one to begin with. He didn't need one, IMO.

Those things also stick out, and are quite obvious. I think if he'd had one she would have noticed it. She noticed his mask, his build, and his bushy brows. A big plastic protuberance on his forehead, even if it wasn't lit up? It is noticeable.

MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

I know I'm the only one but I do not think the defense will want to do alot of questioning of her in the sense of aggressively trying to discredit her. Everything is done, her testimony has already been given in the police reports and I do not believe she is going to change any of it.
<snipped>

I don't think so either. AT is a very intelligent attorney and, being a woman, she also knows how jurors will react if the Defense bullies either of those two survivors. Assuming nothing comes from them at trial that we don't already know, or that the Defense has not found a weakness to exploit that will leave our jaws on the floor, I don't think they will go further than to try and discredit some of the specifics of their statements. The biggest thing will be to plant the seed that their description does not "match" BK. Even so, I don't think it matters very much whether any witnesses can say "yes that's him", since his DNA is present. MOOooo